HPA rifle hate? I guarantee it’s not why you think

[Qlimax]

So, I’ve just read this online and I have to say a lot of what’s been said I agree with.

 

Here’s what I am talking about. Have a read.

 

HPA rifle hate? I guarantee it’s not why you think

So Polarstars have been around a while now.

To begin with, there was a mass outrage about them, that I really didn't understand. Having been an airsofter, and a field owner for quite some time now, I’ve been through many of these hatred phases.

First it was Systema’s, and how people where supposedly changing out cylinders mid-game and shooting hot.

Shortly after this, there was the the LiPo haters, saying that people with LiPo’s had crazy ROF, yet they do nothing more than a well upgraded AEG will do with any regular battery.

Alongside the LiPo’s were people hating on people using box magazines on M4’s (this one I agreed with) especially if they combined this with a LiPo , and the list goes on..

... for a while people hated KWA AEG's because they all shot hot out of the box...

...there have been many things hated on in the airsoft community, but once Polarstars were introduced, we really had an ABSOLUTE WHINE-FEST on our hands.

Some parks banned them completely, some put them in their own group away from others, other parks introduced guidelines such as ROF caps, that applied to everyone, in a hope to play fair.

With Polarstars, the complaints seem to be that players believed that polarstar users were changing their FPS after chronoing (something we have NEVER caught anyone doing), or changing the ROF after chronoing (which we caught only ONE person doing ever).

Fundamentally though, there is one thing that overrules any of these complaints, and that is that a rifle is an inanimate object, incapable of doing anything without the user doing it.

 

Basically, it’s NEVER the rifle’s fault, always the player that did something wrong. Knowing human nature, there’s only ever a rare few people that ACTUALLY do the things they’re being accused of. Most people do play fairly.

So why does everyone hate Polarstars? I’ve gotta admit, for the longest time, I was stumped, too. Until recently, I made an interesting discovery…

...we were short staffed at the park one day, and so I was chronoing some players. As I was chronoing these players, I was astonished by just how many guns were firing like absolute crap. I chronoed around 50 rifles that day, and almost all of them were shooting around 310fps. Here’s how it broke down;

Out of the 50 rifles I chrono’d;

· 3 rifles shot 270-300fps

· 33 rifles shot 300-330fps

· 8 rifles shot 340-360fps

· 5 rifles shot 360-400fps

· 1 rifle shot over 400fps (did not pass chrono)

Even just a few years ago, if you chrono’ed people at around 330fps or below, the player would be shocked, and make some comment about getting his rifle serviced, as it wasn’t shooting right. They'd be heading to the store THAT day to get their rifle looked at!

I was amazed as player-after-player handed me their rifles to chrono (some were even brand new rifles) and either didn’t pay attention to the chrono, or made no comment when they shot 310fps or so.

So, what does this have to do with polarstars, you ask? EVERYTHING.

The players in the higher end of the FPS spectrum were mostly Polarstar users. There was only 1 AEG at the park that day that had a respectable fps of 385fps. Everyone else was shooting WAY low.

So why does everyone claim that polarstar users are ‘shooting hot’? It’s real simple. The reason everyone believes polarstar users are shooting hot, is because the majority of players’ rifles at Jericho Airsoft are shooting too LOW!!

When you get hit by a .28g that was shot from a polarstar chrono’d at 385-390fps, and it feels like it hits you harder, it’s because it IS HITTING YOU HARDER, yet still WELL WITHIN our chrono limits.

Why do people hate polarstars? Mostly because they’re used to being hit softly by weaker shooting rifles.

Isn’t it also funny that the players complaining about polarstars shooting hot, are also the same players complaining about people cheating at OVER 100ft AWAY??? Also the same players complaining about the guy in the bush not calling it?

This also explains why everyone was yelling ‘OW!’, when I shot them with my AEG shooting 385fps.

So let’s wrap this up really quickly and explain what’s happening here. Most airsofters today, seem to go out and buy a rifle, and instead of upgrading the internals to shoot well, and keep maintaining that rifle, they don't. Instead they buy a helmet, a scope, or some other kind of accessory. Most of them have a full loadout, all the gear, yet don’t even own a full uniform.

A lot of these players have over $800 dollars worth of equipment, yet only a $200.00 rifle, and complain that a uniform is too expensive to buy (you can buy a uniform top for the same price as a t-shirt).

These players maintain their rifles, and therefore the rifle’s fps drops down by at least 50fps, and doesn't get maintained.

Often these players will spend $200.00 on external upgrades such as a rail system and a silencer making their gun look cool, but it shoots terribly. I would personally rather have a gun that looks absolutely out-of-the-box-stock, but shoots beautifully, is accurate as hell, at around 385fps.

So, what should you all do?

Follow my rule of thumb here;

Whatever the chrono limit is, aim to get your rifle shooting CONSISTENTLY 15fps lower than the limit.

OUTDOORS: 400fps limit = aim for 385fps

INDOORS: 350fps limit = aim for 335fps

By consistently, I mean that your rifle should not vary by more than 2-3 fps +/-. This allows for any discrepancies, or any days where your gun shoots hot. At 15fps under, it should never shoot over.

At lower than 350fps, bbs will NEVER break through bushes or brush.

I guarantee if most players maintained and upgraded their rifles even slightly, to shoot within a reasonable FPS, the complaints about Polarstars would disappear. The playing field would be equal, because everyone would be shooting to their airsoft rifle's full potential.

So there you have it, it’s not the Polarstars, nor is it the players shooting them, it’s actually the poor performance of people that neglect their rifles that have caused the misunderstanding, because everyone's used to being hit SOFTLY BY THEIR GUNS.

[sp00n]

i agree with that, but i also think that the ROF is a major point too, spitting out 30+ bb's/sec where as alot of AEG's don't even manage 20

 

fyi on my tippmann i set my fps to 280'ish on 0.25's, i have never had any major complaints, but a few mates have said that it dose hit hard.

[Qlimax]

My SMP is set to 25rps, if could take it up to 50 or more I think but it defo goes up to 50 which I don’t as like you say most AEG’s can’t do that. It’s also set at 345Fps on .20s then I use .28s.

My Tippmann ROF is shite anyway due to be an earlier serial number ROF adjustor is an issue but it’s currently with Tippmann having upgrades. The site I play at have never complained, never asked me to tie off my Tippy or SMP and have only ever chrono’d me once… through trust.

 

But that’s why people complain as us HPA users are using heavier BBs because we have to due to the system we’re running. Very much like PTW’s they run a heavier BB because they have to, using .20s in either system simply wouldn’t work. I’ve tried in both of my systems a .20s and whilst it shoots the flight path is really bad. Go heavier and it’s more consistent.

[Sacarathe]

Whats the citation for this Qlimax? Also I think there's a word missing from the double space before "maintain".

 

Interesting read, I think it's only news to people who've not thought about it, I dont even know how this situation could even occur in a country with gun controls like the US, how can people ever think it's the guns.

[Qlimax]

It’s come from some American guy who owns and runs an airsoft site over there. I’ve just copied and pasted it in my post. I’ve posted it from a comment made last night, not made in a bad way but got me thinking.

 

This is where it’s come from.

https://www.jerichoairsoft.com/index.php/66-why-hate-polarstars

 

I hear a lot when playing, people moaning I have the advantage using HPA and even more of an advantage using a speed trigger. My SMP is no faster than most PTW’s that play on the same site as me. Like the above says, I’ve spent a lot of money maintaining and upgrading my unit to make it run properly.

If that gives me an advantage over those that just buy out of the box then that’s not my fault that’s theres.

[GiantKiwi]

My biggest complaint with them has nothing to do with how they fire, just the bloody tanks

 

 

(He says after having to convert a certain new acquisition to HPA to not use £20 of propane a day)

[Hef Legend]

Qlimax, was this in regards to my comment about me potentially being put of about getting one due to some sites not allowing them?

[Qlimax]

Qlimax, was this in regards to my comment about me potentially being put of about getting one due to some sites not allowing them?

 

No mate, someone sent me a PM about my SMP and there was a comment within it about it using a heavier BB, the lad didn’t understand why it would need to use it. And also asked about the speed trigger if it's unfair etc !

[Hef Legend]

ahh ok.

 

There are a lot of people against HPA, but at the post mentioned......people hated PTW's, LiPo's etc. Everyone will stop complaining when they become cheap enough for general purchase. Still debating on what to get myself

[Sacarathe]

I can't see the problem really, but that post surely explains how it arose. What's the point in the chronograph, what's the point in trusting other's to call hits, if people are going irrationally dislike players with more money to spend [on airsoft].

[Qlimax]

Exactly mate, people I know who own PTW’s clearly more expensive than my SMP don’t mind it, they like having something that can challenge their system.

 

I believe if you can lock it off so you can’t adjust it then there shouldn’t be a problem. I’ve even bought without being asked numbered zip ties so if I ever have to lock it off there’s no argument on whether I’ve changed the tie or not as it’s numbered. I’ve not yet met a HPA owner who has changed there system after chrono. Pretty much every site allows a Tippmann so why not P* or SMP’s ?

 

Hef, the site you play at obviously allow your Tippmann’s so you’d have no trouble with an SMP or P*, if the right purchases is made you can lock it off. I paid more for my regulator so it would have a tournament lock on but worth it. I’ve only ever heard of one site now allowing SMP’s on it and that’s F&O but they allow P*………..

[M_P]

Everyone always hates new things, I can't say I'm a fan of hpa guns but have nothing against them. The more options on the market the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

The only bad thing is that when I've played with and against people with hpa guns at semi only sites they tap the trigger so fast they at as well be on full auto. But again that's a user problem and I'm sure they'd do the same with a ptw or similar.

 

Just people moaning because they don't have one pretty much.

 

I don't even see the need for tournament locks, if someone is going to cheat the fps limits they can do so so easily with several other guns anyway.

[Hef Legend]

I'll be getting a Ninja LPR if I go down the HPA route, that way it has the lock

[Sacarathe]

I want to go HPA, but until I have a 2nd gun 'shell' I'm not going to disassemble my only AEG to make it. In my view, I see it as taking a gun consisting of something like 15 factors to tune/have go wrong, and reducing it to barrel and hop up unit (2).

 

After the initial outlay £550-700* + AEG body, expenditures will be kept down. Unfortunately I had to spend more money that I would have liked on footwear(£320) to correct a disability. So I budgeted myself out of HPA until I can afford another AEG.

 

 

 

 

*Polarstar: Engine+FCU (£250-400), hose/regulator (£140), Battery (£10), Stirrup Pump (£120-160), Bottle (£40-200).

 

 

In other news, the most recent Polarstar FCU firmware added a trigger lockout, with values from 10 shots a second to 1 shot every 10 seconds. For snipers and other uses.

[Lozart]

 

The only bad thing is that when I've played with and against people with hpa guns at semi only sites they tap the trigger so fast they at as well be on full auto. But again that's a user problem and I'm sure they'd do the same with a ptw or similar.

 

 

 

I've seen that done with upgraded AEGs. People always assume that their gun is fine and anything that shoots faster or harder must be in some way "cheating". I have no issue with HPA/P* whatever as long as the user isn't a dick and that applies to EVERY gun. I get annoyed by people being completely unnecessary with ROF more than specifically what the motive power source is.

[Sacarathe]

I get annoyed by people being completely unnecessary with ROF more than specifically what the motive power source is.

Ditto, my last game someone sneaked up on me, to within 5 meters, and then shot me in the side 7 times on semi, I shouted (loudly and politely) and they apologised later, I guess they were not using their sights properly.

 

I can't say what ROF I would have if I had a HPA, but I can say it would not exceed AEG levels unless the gun was in burst fire 2-3 shots.

 

I'm that guy who takes the time to draw a pistol to avoid hurting people!

[Hef Legend]

 

*Polarstar: Engine+FCU (£250-400), hose/regulator (£140), Battery (£10), Stirrup Pump (£120-160), Bottle (£40-200).

 

 

Why the Stirrup pump?

[Qlimax]

The main thing that annoys me about HPA is that people don’t like it because they say it’s easy to adjust the Fps or ROF. But they allow and accept PTW’s which have a far easier way of changing the Fps, keep another cylinder in your pocket, pull rear pin out snap open, pull charging handle to remove cylinder….. in goes your other one all in about 10 seconds. My SMP, I’d have to take my rig off, get my bottle out with my regulator on, get an allen key out adjust and repeat the first steps again putting it away etc. I’d be more noticeable than someone switching a cylinder out.

 

So why like one and not the other !

 

yeah i don't agree with those who take the piss on their ROF as there's simply no need to have it that high

[Sacarathe]

 

Why the Stirrup pump?

 

I don't have any plans to get larger than 3000 PSI tanks. If every fill from a store costs £6-10 (transport costs included, but time excluded)...

 

Beesting are going to start stocking them this month, yay.

[Hef Legend]

O right, so for tanks of 3000 PSI, you can manually fill them?

[Sacarathe]

yeah i don't agree with those who take the piss on their ROF as there's simply no need to have it that high

 

If the gun is accurate, with tight spread it's even worse as higher rate of fire is not actually going to increase chance of hitting, in my opinion.

 

 

 

O right, so for tanks of 3000 PSI, you can manually fill them?

You can for 4500 68CI ones too.

 

As you would expect, it gets harder once you pass a certain PSI/BAR, Based on youtube vids on this subject, I'd say that the problems start somewhere around 3000PSI.

 

I believe the consensus is about bodyweight, after a time you need the actual body mass to be about to operate the pump. Thankfully these pumps, contain multiple cylinders operating as pumps on the fore aswell as backstroke.

[Hef Legend]

briefly googled this, looks like it can take up to an hour to fill lol

[Sacarathe]

briefly googled this, looks like it can take up to an hour to fill lol

 

From what I read, the pump would overheat and be dangerous before that.

 

It's more like 15 minutes (not all at once either ) out of every hour for a day on a weekend.

 

In terms of money, and if you have the fitness and the desire to exercise in that manner I think a pump is the best solution. Unless a site had a pump, its not economical to visit airgun or scuba shops.

 

Plus I believe for the 3000PSI 13 CI tanks you get 3 to 5 shots (Polarstar JACK) per stroke of the pump to a max of 1200 from the tank.

[Samurai]

One other reason we feel they hit harder because they do hit harder.

We are chronoing with 0.20 but with heavy BBs HPA can do ridiculous joule creep and HPA users use 0.28+. Same with gas guns.

 

If you would chrono with 0.28 you would still get around 349 fps and that's about 410 with 0.20. Yes, a 40 rps short burst of 410 fps does hurt more.

 

Yes, there are sane HPA/gas users too, but until the sites chrono for energy with the BB used there will be players who see the current chrono rules as opportunity to f*ck the system.

 

Personally I don't care about them on the field. As soon as I hear someone using a sewing machine, I just avoid frontal assault. Not that I do that anyway. But I see that as unfair advantage against the newer players, especially rentals. It is a bad message to them.

[Qlimax]

briefly googled this, looks like it can take up to an hour to fill lol

 

yeah you can buy a manual pump to fill HPA bottles. whilst cheaper it takes a lot longer and if the pump over heats you've got to wait for AGES for it to cool down