hydro dipping

[moonmoose]

 

Would hydro dipping be classed as 2 tone?

 

Granted some dull/dark matt colours and woodland patterns could be excluded.. but if the majority of the rifle was wrapped in blue or white skulls, for arguments sake, is that enough to class as 2 tone?

Or would the fact its a pattern and not a solid colour make my question retarded?

[Sitting Duck]

Hmmmmm - tricky one coz AirsoftWorld were doing the snake skin 2-tone as an option

 

Me personally I feel the pattern or snake skin look is not the same as the "normal" 2-tone

(certain parts of gun 1 continuous colour to easily distinguish as first glance it is an IF)

 

Technically we the user are not allowed to paint/modify the guns, where as retailers paint as they see fit

should be 51% of gun but so much is open to interpretation in a sense.....

 

If retailer thinks that a snake skin 2-tone blue meets the criteria for an IF then that is up to them at AW

but my own gut feeling it falls a little short of the vivid 51% yukk orange or puke green most "BB" retailers sell

 

The coverage & colour of snake skin at AW is way too subtle in my opinion and hope AW don't get any kick back

should be a much brighter blue - still better than crap orange or a slightly milder puke green - anything but orange

(They "could" in my book perhaps spray the mag n stuff like flash hider a bit more to cover their ar$es)

 

probably yet another subject to start rows & quarrels and all with a sprinkling of various people's own interpretation.....

[Airsoft_Mr B]

It's supposed to be a solid colour. I can see how AW could get away with their snakeskin pattern, but hydro dipping I doubt it.

 

But honestly why would you want to do that? Say you spend £80 on dipping, then you get a defence and want to change it back to black or something? I don't even know if you could remove it.

Also how are you going to find a brightly coloured camouflage pattern? Or I am right it depends on the base coat you paint your gun with first?

[NH Shooter]

It's supposed to be a solid colour. I can see how AW could get away with their snakeskin pattern, but hydro dipping I doubt it.

But honestly why would you want to do that? Say you spend £80 on dipping, then you get a defence and want to change it back to black or something? I don't even know if you could remove it.

Also how are you going to find a brightly coloured camouflage pattern? Or I am right it depends on the base coat you paint your gun with first?

That's the thing... It doesn't have to be solid at all. The act states "principle colour" which could mean all sorts of things. And it's also pretty impossible to measure. The whole 51% thing... Is it surface area? On which surfaces? In use? not in use? How is it measured? What is the definition of "bright"... Is it a reflective index? Does it have defined ral codes?

 

It's all horrendously vague. I'd personally sell certain dips as two tone... And I'm a retailer.

[Lozart]

There isn't defined ral codes but there is a list of colours and "snakeskin" isn't one of them. I think they're taking advantage of the vagueness of people's understanding with that.

[Sitting Duck]

the snake skin is a little too subtle as I said (no way would I say 51%)

dipping - well that depends on coverage/pattern/colour & god knows what

(yes dipping or painting - same meat different gravy but depends on final result)

 

at time of sale it is supposed to meet the 51% guideline but with wear n tear if it starts to fade/remove

then is it not the owner's liability to ensure it still meets those requirements ???

(or should the retailer have done a better job)

 

whole issue is a bollock-ache sometimes but we have to go with flow

yup I was right - bloomin' ukara/vcra and anything like this....

 

"probably yet another subject to start rows & quarrels and all with a sprinkling of various people's own interpretation....."

[NH Shooter]

There isn't defined ral codes but there is a list of colours and "snakeskin" isn't one of them. I think they're taking advantage of the vagueness of people's understanding with that.

Well... Snakeskin really isn't a colour. But more to the point, patterns aren't defined or even mentioned. A Nerf gun has multiple colours in various patterns. Even "digital camo"... Is a Nerf gun "two tone"? Would an m4 painted to look like one be two tone?

 

I'd say so.

 

It states predominantly a bright colour, but doesn't go on to mention the other "49%" nor does it prohibit patterning, or combinations. It's only intention is a differentiation to real looking weapons... So I'd use any colour mentioned, or colour combination.

 

As a citizen, my job is to follow the law, not the law plus some other stuff not mentioned. It's against the law to steal... But selling someone a biro for £1, when they could get it for 70p is arguably stealing 30p. But that's not illegal.

 

It's not taking advantage, it's just not following rules that don't exist.

 

To be honest... It's down to an individuals choice, which they might have to ultimately defend in court. And by that, I mean the retailer and not the customer.

[Sitting Duck]

SRC Gundam is deffo a 2-tone in my book even though it is a 5 tone or something

 

The "general" idea is it is to be easily identified as an IF from first glance

(that is basically my interepretation for what it is worth and I'm going with that)

 

In other words if somebody glanced over at an IF - most people would inform police it appears to be fake

rather than the 12yr old killed a couple of months ago

 

Snake is too subtle - that could still raise alarm bells of a response team

JBBG is quite obvious it is a toy or IF - plus its crap btw

 

Somewhere there are "possible" options to still ease people's first glancing concerns

and still look a little less of a JBBG newbie but think we may all have a slight difference of opinion on this exactly

 

Safe bet is something along the lines of JBBG but maybe a little more subtle

but yet again the colour or shade could be a matter of opinion too

 

It is down to seller / retailer what they deem to fit that criteria and can defend if challenged

paint or dipping is fine in my book - some dipping could be better than a lame ar$e tacky paint job

it is the effect really not method used I suppose.....

 

NH Shooter is correct as it is up to him what he sees fit despite what others may think

it is his ar$e not anybody else's - so I think that really defines it

as the seller's ar$e is on the line despite whatever anybody else says is ok or not

[Chock]

What you have to do, is apply a bit of common sense really. The specifics of the VCR Act might not be a particularly clear all encompassing guide to which colours and patterns are acceptable, but the intent of the law is clear enough, any two tone paint job is supposed to make it apparent to a casual observer that it is not a real weapon.

 

I don't think anyone in their right mind would paint their real M4 or AK in bright orange, so it's obvious that when you see a rifle looking like that, it's a pretty safe bet that it is not a real weapon, whereas that snakeskin pattern which AW offered looked kind of cool, and I could see someone painting, or wanting to paint their real AK or M4 in that kind of way. So in my opinion, that AW snakeskin pattern might have been following the letter of the law, but it certainly wasn't following the spirit or intent of the law, and is someone gets shot by an armed response unit whilst playing with one of those in some private field or garden or whatever, then I would regard AW to be somewhat to blame for it, because that paint job does not make it obvious that the thing is not a real weapon.

[M_P]

Use block bright colours, simple as that. Can't go wrong and you won't look like a bellend trying to get around the law.

[Mr Monkey Nuts]

Regardless of the legalities, the skull hydro dipping film looks shit.

[BigAl]

The skull "Hydro dipping film" which one there are loads.

 

Save your money get a regular two tone and replace / paint / dip it when you have a defence. The dipping is gonna cost you as much as the gun, depending on what you buy, might as well spend that oney to get something you really like not something you can put up with.

 

As for the legalities, its probably illegal, but either way do you want to be the one who ends up in court to find out?

[Jambo88]

The snakeskin is quite difficult to see in low light and it defiantly doesn't cover 51% of the gun. But if I seen someone with a M4 or any other sort of assault rifle in the street I would assume it was a airsoft gun. You don't see many fully automatic guns on the mean streets of fife. AW have no doubt made enquiries about the paint job to find out if it meets the required standard before selling it to the public as any responsible business would do.

[BigAl]

The problem is if an Armed Police officer is unsure, i.e. has reasonable reason to fear for his life he'll shoot. No one on the street would assume its airsoft, most don't know what airsoft is.

[Colonel Kurtz]

i painted my first two-tone airsoft gun black immediately after researching the VCRA, asking lots of questions, even phoning my local police-station, and comming to the following conclusions;

 

- Converting an immitation firearm into a realistic immitation firearm is listed in the VCRA as being illegal, like owning one at all, unless you have a valid defence that excempts you from this law.

 

- 51% bright paint coverage is a defined standard for the difference between 'realistic' or not.

 

- The only generally accepted 'defences' are that you can prove it is for use in airsoft, re-enactment or film use, rather than robbing banks etc. Even then it's case by case and there's no defined legal standard for prooving such a defence.

 

- UKARA is a retailers standard for proving that defence is genuine, but not an actual defence/license itself.

 

- An excuse only becomes a defence if you can prove it, again the UKARA standard isn't a legal minimum for proving a defence, just a minimum standard accepted by a retailers association for selling you the stuff.

 

As I was planning on playing airsoft not robbery, I felt i had a valid defence. I could not yet prove this defence to the accepted UKARA standard, but i had proof of going to airsoft sites. I figured UKARA might help me prove my defence if i ever had to in future so i'd still apply for it. But i wasn't very concerned about that as my only chances of having to prove it was if i got stopped by the police with the gun in transit, and that'd only be going to an airsoft site i'd have a confirmed booking at. Or if my house got raided/entered by the police for some other reason.

 

The copper at my local pig-cage told me on the phone that as long as i wasn't stupid enough to brandish it in public, or within direct sight of the public (my neighbours), then i'd be very unlucky to have to provide a defence, and that if they came across them they'd confiscate the guns on the spot regardless so they could be inspected and then whether i had the relevant 'defence' investigated (always a chance of a policeman being understanding and letting you on your merry way but thats the official-line)

 

SO in summary i chose to consider myself having a valid defence and little odds of having to prove it, so just painted the gun. Even with UKARA, i and anyone else owning a RIF still have a risk of not being able to sucesfully proove a defence, so it's a personal decision on whether you feel you could proove a defence, and how that likelyhood weighs against the penalty for not being able to proove it.

[Lozart]

The problem is if an Armed Police officer is unsure, i.e. has reasonable reason to fear for his life he'll shoot. No one on the street would assume its airsoft, most don't know what airsoft is.

 

If you're stupid enough to wave a RIF about in public then an SO19 double tap is all you deserve.

[Colonel Kurtz]

And they have to take it all very seriously, regardless of how ridiculous it turns out to be in hindsight.

 

i got nicked by armed police after some freek phoned the police to say a party i was at was a house of crack-dealers holding his (freshy-ex) girlfriend there hostage at gun-point. Went out into the garden for a ciggy and promptly poo'd my pants when faced with guns, torches and conflicting orders to not move and submit. Fortunately i looked about as dangerous as Chachi from Happy Days and with nothing gun-looking in my hands I survived un-tapped lol.

 

this is why im never going to an airsoft party lol