Fps raise. Let's get it DONE

[Teo]

Hi.

Ok so basically I'm am sick with the fps limit of 328 in Northern Ireland. Is it ever gonna be made higher. I feel sorry for you guys in the rest of the uk aswell with a bit higher limit but not much.

 

The fps limit in the US is so much higher and ares should be aswell.

 

But how do we go about getting it raised. It NEEDS done.

Let's find a way. Hoorah

[CaptainSwoop]

why?

[Del Monty]

Nothing wrong with the FPS limit, perfectly fine for me

[Airsoft_Mr B]

Higher FPS does not mean better. Velocity would only really affect snipers at long race but otherwise, not a problem. 400+ for an AEG is pointless, it just hurts more in close quarters.

[Moose87]

yer i totally agree, the limit is fine.

you havent really said what you beef is with it??

[Ian_Gere]

I totally disagree. If I had my way our sport/hobby would split into two.

 

Airsoft would have the current upper woodland limits across the board - AEG's 368FPS, semi-auto pistols & rifles 425FPS, BASR's 500FPS 20m MED.

 

Strikeball Air would only be open to 16+ with a parent or guardian's signature and 18+. All guns would have to be full metal, roughly equivalent to their RS originals in weight. The FPS hard limit for AEG's and all pistols would be 500; for Semi-Auto Rifles 650 with a 20m MED (for those above 500FPS); also there would be a new category of support AEG's with a minimum weight of 7Kg which could fire full auto max. 12rps at 650FPS at a 25m MED (for those above 500FPS); BASR's would be limited to 750FPS with a 25m MED (for those above 500FPS). Hand thrown grenades and smokes under 300g would have no restrictions on how they are thrown, between 301-500g they could be thrown no higher than cricket bowling height unless lobbed with only enough force to clear an obstacle so long as they would then fall no further than 8m. Devices over 0.5Kg could not be thrown above head height at all. Some kind of players' association would attempt to convince a/some manufacturer/s, perhaps pay for some of the R&D, to create an entirely gas/CO₂ powered projectile weighing less than 250g which would launch from a 40mm moscart upto approx 50m and explode on impact generating approx 110dB and a similar but larger system for parachute deploying mortar shells.

 

My reasons are complex and multi-sided but in no particular order include these:

 

You don't have to fire at the limits. In fact upgrading to and keeping guns going at higher limits would be a lot of work; it would therefore introduce more variety in the maximum effective ranges of weapons since the expense would get prohibitive to have every AEG you own firing at 495FPS at 25+rps, plus given that one of the best ways to get higher FPS and thus range, without putting so much extra strain on the gearbox that the trigger response suffers noticeably, is to get more pressure behind the BB in a TBB, rifles with long barrels in general would have an advantage over light, short, weapons in general, which is as it should be - if you want the advantage of range you should have to lug some extra weight for it and if you would rather have a gun which is so light you barely notice it, your advantage is easier movement and thus shorter range is fair enough. This would introduce a degree of variety, even at sites we know well, which is currently a bit lacking.

 

Harder hits would reduce the phenomenon of 'accidental cheating' where someone who is adrenalised does not notice a hit through their clothing because it doesn't hurt and they've got so much else on their mind that they don't notice.

 

Safety equipment properly worn would still prevent any actual injury. Yes, harder hits would increase the incidence of broken skin bleeders, but let's have it right, a bit of blood does not an injury make and there are plenty of sports which regularly result in much worse hurts, let alone actual hospitalising injuries, and nobody runs home whinging to their mum about those. If you don't care about your teeth or scars on your face, don't wear a mask; if you are concerned that a 468g BFG falling 6m onto your head will hurt more than you are prepared to accept, wear a helmet.

 

The pain is the main source of the excitement of our sport/hobby. It may be competitive spirit that drives us to get forward and try to shoot the opposition, but it is the potential for getting totally rinsed that makes us genuinely, sometimes desperately, try to use cover while we do it! If we were not excited by the opposition shooting back, we would shoot paper targets, but the more is at stake, the more exciting it is. Personally I can no longer afford silly money gambling and, even if I could, I think it's far better to just spend the money on definitely having a good time than to try to have a good time by risking losing it on the outcome of some event/turn of cards/roll of dice where the odds are to one extent or another stacked against me, but it is a similar principle.

 

A major bonus which greater effective ranges would produce is that camouflage would be more effective and the knock on effect of that is an increased threat of being shot by an unseen opponent, hence again greater excitement.

[TacMaster]

I think FPS limits are fine where they are. 328 fps is possibly the optimum muzzle velocity for an AEG because it balances out projectile performance and your opponent's pain. I hope we don't end up with a system of muzzle velocity caps like they do in the USA, I don't want to get lit up full auto by a guy with an M4 firing at 500 fps.

 

350 FPS doesn't add as much breathing room as you think, Teo.

[CaptainSwoop]

I totally disagree. If I had my way our sport/hobby would split into two... Snipped for brevity

 

Some points I agree with and some I don't but you have well reasoned arguments.

In principal I have no objection to raising FPS more pain and longer range would make people more careful and enhance 'realism'

Enforcing a full face protection isn't too hard.

I think a 'split' in the sport would be difficult though Some sites seem to have problems policing the current FPS limit. Having 2 different types of event using two different FPS rates would mean a lot better checking and policing.

 

Maybe a compulsory Chrono before an event and a 'seal' on the gearbox or receiver to show any tampering after the check?

[toothpick-NL]

here in netherlands and begium its max 360 for AEG's and 500 for bolt action snipers. everything what is not a bolt action sniper is 360FPS

 

over here comes also from time tot time the question about rising the FPS

but every time it comes out the same thing. 360 FPS/500(bolt) is good enough. the people who want higher FPS meaby know how to use it but many others don't

also you need higher protection so your not playing in a uniform any more but your more like a robot or a pain-baller with all protection.

like they said earlyer it doesn't make your schoot further. if you want to do that than inform about airsealing your gun and upgrade parts.

 

so:

more distance - NO not really
everyone knows how to handel it - NO (and we play only 18+)

gives more realisitc - NO you need extra protection

[M_P]

I don't see the point either, I use a rifle firing at 285-290ish at a site with a limit of 350.
If you feel you need more reach, upgrade your gun- you can still achieve a fair bit with 330 FPS- have a word with UTJ, he's in NI I believe and has gotten great results from his guns.

 

Yes it'd be nicer to have higher limits but we're in the UK, realistically it's not gonna happen. Our country is full of anti-gun nuts so we're lucky we have what we do to be honest.

[Lozart]

The Malls limit is 328fps but on variance they'll allow up to 340. Hence most of the guns there seem to run around 330-335. Personally I'd say that was plenty, but then I'm not a woodland player (so far).

[remus]

the only thing we need higher is for bolt action snipers. for aegs etc the 328 works well tbh i have more of a problem with rps as i havent heard of a limit on that yet it can have more dire consequences(hitting same spot weakening breaking through) not that ive had the problem but i can see it in threads that test mesh as an example... as long as everyone has the same rules(ni wont change, and shouldnt change, until the roi does)

[Guest PT247]

I bleed enough at 350 tvm lol

[dex]

A well set up hop-up (flat hop, r-hop, g-hop etc) will do more for you than increasing the FPS. Ultimately it will just hurt more.

[hilander]

well it looks like your losing this battle . with no expanation why you want it higher . You want to hurt other players ?

[Monty]

Ian nails it again.

[jay83]

A proper adjusted 350fps gun firing 0.25g bb's and above fire really far. I find the biggest Airsoft mistake I see is people not adjusting there hop up

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

I'm not in NI but in the Republic,but we have the same laws except no VCRA or UKARA(suck it boiiiiiiiiiii)

 

I'm fine with the 1J limit. Most guns are designed around this power since they cloned Marui's designs. Which may be an explanation for the Infamous V2 shells cracking at higher power,and some guns being more accurate at low FPS.

 

A lower power makes the guns safer and does not really restrict performance,we can shoot each other up closer and not have an MED or bang rules in some cases,and BBs don't pierce skin completely,only welt,Japanese studies have also shown that a BB must have a force greater than roughly 1 Joule to pierce an eyeball.

That Keeps the nanny type eejits happy and airsoft often falls under the radar of legislation.Irish airsofters fought tooth and nail to allow guns to be unlicensed after 2006,politicians seem to have stopped giving a shit about it and letting us on our merry way.

 

Airsoft never gets into news,only local news around the line of 'Retart brings airsoft gun into street,gets it confiscated and a very stern talking to by Gardai'

 

To get the best out of a 1J gun it's best to overhaul the gun's compression quality and hop up and barrel combo. Mods like Flathop,Rhop,Ghop etc... are all incredibly effective. I currently have a pseudo-flathop type thing going on in my VSR,getting kills at 60m with not too much of a hassle. High FPS does not necessarily equal range,however it is nice to have fast BB flight.

 

You really get the benefits of higher powers like in the USA if you use heavy weights,but because most guys there are bent on getting faster dakka they still use .2s and .25s without knowing their guns will be really accurate and get great range with heavier weights.

 

Another thing to do is to exploit a bit of a loophole which is caused by misinformation of airsoft. Most people believe the legal limit is 328 FPS with a .2,yet it is actually 1J regardless of weight. However,you can keep site owners and gardai happy by using Joule creep to your advantage.

 

To explain joule creep:

 

A .2g BB flies out of the barrel before all their air is pushed out of the cylinder,meaning it has less kinetic energy. Higher kinetic energy in a BB allows it to fly longer,and more stable at the expense of speed. It also allows it to punch through foliage and resist wind. A heavier BB will be slower allowing all the air to get behind it,increasing it's kinetic energy(Joules) Note Piston operated Airhard gats expel their air gradually. HPA and Gas rifles expel it all at once.

 

How joule creep get?

 

Over voluming your cylinder:Barrel ratio.

 

Most cylinders expel the same volume of air as the volume of the barrel,so it stops expanding once the BB leaves the barrel.

 

To over volume you can either get a short barrel or get a non ported cylinder. In my case my VSR 10 Gspec has a 303mm barrel but a cylinder volume matched to a 430mm barrel. Joule creep ahoy.

 

Once it's over volumed use heavy BBs,like .28s,.30 and .32s

 

Large amount of air volume pushing a heavy weight= Higher kinetic energy

 

Higher kinetic energy in an airhard gat= better BB flight get.

 

Your gun will still fire under 328 FPS with .2s if you are ever chronographed by marshals or even the gardai in super extreme cases.

 

It's illegal but nobody knows about it so I exploit it while I can. I can get around 1.2J to 1.3J out of my Gspec with .28s or.3s,been a while since a chrono so Numbers may be off. Still hitting 85m/s/290FPS with .2s though.

[M_P]

I wonder how many people would use cheap chinese mesh at 500fps on full auto

[TacMaster]

>Awesome technical post I may find useful<

 

Gonna buy me some .30s now

[Teo]

What I mainly want is a fps raise for snipers. That should be allowed. The other reason for the fps raise is that if your gun comes stock with an fps of 350 etc. you will have to spend more money getting it downgraded.

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

Well,most retailers have the guns downgraded by the wholesalers before they are imported. A lot of companies also have guns made for the Japanese market with 1J spring out of the factory

 

As much as I'd like an increase of FPS for Sniper rifles,I'm afraid that we'll suddenly have a massive surge of pseudo-snipers with stock china made rifles running about being useless. Right now a lot of people buy sniper rifles,say 'dis am shit,not enuff dakka' and quit,mainly people who really dedicate themselves to upgrading and the playstyle actually stay in the role.

[Monty]

A sniper doesn't necessarily need high FPS.

Good hop up unit > FPS.

[toothpick-NL]

like monty says. a sniper need op FPS up but UP-grades.

 

a upgraded aeg with max 360 FPS can shoot further than a basic bolt action with 500FPS.

 

i saw it and the sniper calling that the aeg user was cheating and having tomucht FPS becaus AEG shoots bolt sniper down but bolt sniper couln't hit aeg person

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

Bolt action rifles are more for the playstyle and they are generally easier to upgrade to perform well,most having super simple and quick disassembly and design allowing you to tune it easily. That said,you can get an AEG having the performance of a bolt action rifles and have the advantage of having 40RPS,but it's more rewarding and fun with a boltie,with an AEG you have to do a fair bit of gearbox tuning to get it running quietly and having instant response.

 

I've been using my VSR for 3 years now and I still get a childish shit eating grin when I cock the gun because bolting the gun dramatically makes you feel cool