Baz JJ Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 A theoretical question. If you were offered the chance to become a part of a small team of special forces for the day in an Airsoft game where you were given a mission and had the chance to make an attack on a poorly trained and badly organised force with a high chance of success with minimal losses, would this interest you ? A typical scenario might be you are one of a four man team and three of those teams are tasked with insertion in a woodland setting, conducting recon and an OP to locate a VIP that has been taken hostage by a ruthless band of mercenaries, attacking their complex with a CQB type action and extracting said VIP. There would be pyros, comms, surveillance gadgetry, the chance to plan your own method of attack, and providing you attacked in an organised, stealthy, fast and aggressive way, a pretty good chance of getting the VIP out. You will meet resistance, there will be firefights and if you screw up, the mercenaries will stop you ever getting to the exfil (deniable op, game over). The downside is that a ticket to play would cost about double the normal skirmish cost i.e. about £45 for the day. I think there might be a chance to organise something. Lets not get bogged down with where and when for now. Im just interested to know if there is sufficient interest ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clumpyedge Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 A theoretical question. If you were offered the chance to become a part of a small team of special forces for the day in an Airsoft game where you were given a mission and had the chance to make an attack on a poorly trained and badly organised force with a high chance of success with minimal losses, would this interest you ? A typical scenario might be you are one of a four man team and three of those teams are tasked with insertion in a woodland setting, conducting recon and an OP to locate a VIP that has been taken hostage by a ruthless band of mercenaries, attacking their complex with a CQB type action and extracting said VIP. There would be pyros, comms, surveillance gadgetry, the chance to plan your own method of attack, and providing you attacked in an organised, stealthy, fast and aggressive way, a pretty good chance of getting the VIP out. You will meet resistance, there will be firefights and if you screw up, the mercenaries will stop you ever getting to the exfil (deniable op, game over). The downside is that a ticket to play would cost about double the normal skirmish cost i.e. about £45 for the day. I think there might be a chance to organise something. Lets not get bogged down with where and when for now. Im just interested to know if there is sufficient interest ? sounds like good fun to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Ian_Gere Posted September 19, 2013 Supporters Share Posted September 19, 2013 Yes, definitely. I'd have to snipe, as my current state of health precludes keeping up with healthy younger people in aggressive assaults for long, but I'd be happy to act as an observer also and radio intel to the rest of the team as they attack. If it involved laying waste to a whole mob of rentals/casual enthusiasts and enough marshals to ensure hit taking, then absolutely £45 would be worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 What about interest to be in the defending team if the walk on fee was only £10 ? Surprisingly Im struggling to get sites interesting in staging such an event, even if I guarantee them the same revenue as a normal skirmish event and I do all the tricky planning. Ive talked to a few sites between London and Birmingham (centre mass of England) and they only seem interested in doing what they normally do.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 A sniper is a valuable asset in any fireteam. I can think of no better way of taking out sentries ! Yes, definitely. I'd have to snipe, as my current state of health precludes keeping up with healthy younger people in aggressive assaults for long, but I'd be happy to act as an observer also and radio intel to the rest of the team as they attack. If it involved laying waste to a whole mob of rentals/casual enthusiasts and enough marshals to ensure hit taking, then absolutely £45 would be worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzuki Yamamoto Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I know TWA are willing to hire their Urban site in Croydon, but not sure it would be of a sufficient size for what you have in mind. But they may also be willing to hire their Woodland site which might be more suitable. I also think that charging two different amounts for opposing teams isn't the way to go and would put me off some what. You have the basis of a good idea and for the Spec ops team it's great, but for the other team it would seem a bit like they're being asked to turn up and be cannon fodder. Please don't read into this as having a go, it's more constructive feedback. You need a certain amount of players to hire a site privately for the day and for the players there has to be a good reason to go. Why not meet costs in the middle and give both teams objectives. Spec Ops to rescue VIP and extract and Rebels/renegades or whatever you want to call them need to capture 50% of the Spec Ops team. You can also give both teams seperate mini objectives throughout the day depending on how you set out your game scenario. It's just an idea that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Yes its a valid idea Suzuki. Cannon fodder, no. The game would be arranged so that there are a lot more of the defending forces but each team has a different set of advantages. The defending team have a real chance of downing some of the special forces guys and there would be some cracking firefights and quite a few surprises for the SF team if they dont do the right planning and preparation. Some people are prepared to pay £45 to be a part of a small crack team and some people cant afford that. My idea was to give those who cant afford £45 for a days entertainment, the chance to participate. If there was a fixed price for everybody of say £20, with 12 SF places and about 35 defending places, the SF places would likely fill first. The price difference creates some balance in that. Also, this would be a SIM, not a skirmish. There would be Team Leaders (and possibly Squad Leaders in the defending team). The SF troops would collectively shape their own destiny whilst the defending troops would be expected to follow orders from their TL and SLs, rather than do whatever they like as in a typical skirmish. Also, there would be a degree of acting involved on the part of the defending team. Guarding a VIP would mean just that. That wouldnt allow running around the woods looking for the SF forces because you know they are coming - not very realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzuki Yamamoto Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 That explains your idea a bit more for me. I would be interested if you manage to get a site. Just as a thought towards your game scenario, how about the Spec Ops team have to firstly recover intel from a site and that intel would reveal the whereabouts of the VIP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Suzuki I havent bothered too much about specifics as we would need to sort a site etc, but my plan was to make it as real as possible for the SF team by inserting them by simulated helo and expecting them to conduct an OP to report back on enemy numbers, locations etc. Real SF missions are about information gathering, processing and planning. The shooting "action" is usually fast and effective. Without giving too much away, the defending force might expect a hostage rescue but they dont know when or in reality, if. Most kidnappers use a number of different techniques to protect against rescuues. Can the SF team overcome these or will the defending team outsmart them ? If the SF dont make the extraction in the last phase, with or without the VIP, they are dead - deniable op !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Ian_Gere Posted September 19, 2013 Supporters Share Posted September 19, 2013 As I said in pm, it may be better for the defenders to be fighting another ordinary team over the intel and the hostage, then add the SF as a third team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzuki Yamamoto Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Sounds good mate and I look forward to seeing if you get this going. There is a site in Billericay, Essex (Don't know how central it would be for anyone wanting to attend) that it pretty big (30 acres I believe) and it has various areas with small man made buildings and even a CQB arena. It also has plenty of Woodland and cover for fire positions, snipers etc. Might be worth getting in touch with them to see if they'd be willing to hire it out if you can get the numbers. Good luck buddy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted September 19, 2013 Supporters Share Posted September 19, 2013 Suzuki I havent bothered too much about specifics as we would need to sort a site etc, but my plan was to make it as real as possible for the SF team by inserting them by simulated helo and expecting them to conduct an OP to report back on enemy numbers, locations etc. Real SF missions are about information gathering, processing and planning. The shooting "action" is usually fast and effective. Without giving too much away, the defending force might expect a hostage rescue but they dont know when or in reality, if. Most kidnappers use a number of different techniques to protect against rescuues. Can the SF team overcome these or will the defending team outsmart them ? If the SF dont make the extraction in the last phase, with or without the VIP, they are dead - deniable op !! I think while striving for reality (to be a Sim) you're potentially sucking out any possible enjoyment for the defending team. I would envisage a vast amount of thumb twiddling if it goes according to plan for the SF mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 It all depends on the planning. We are in danger here of collectively designing the game details. I think for the purpose of the OP, you have to assume that each player will get his moneys worth. There is a lot of detail and ideas that I have deliberately omitted from this thread. This is just an outline. The skill in planning something like this is to have something for everybody and to allow people to feel as much realism as is possible with Airsoft. Im quite convinced that it could work, but Im not interested in setting up my own Airsoft business. If I can find a site that is interested in trying something experimental and a little different, then I will quite happily thrash out the fine detail with them. Some of the things that I have in mind might not be practical for them. At the moment, finding an interested site is proving quite difficult unless I book the site myself and then try to sell tickets which I dont want to really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZKaleem Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Hey Baz I noticed you play at AWA! Near Watford, (Great Westwood specifically) there's a relatively new site called Reforger Airsoft (find them on FB as they dont have a page) They might be more open to this idea since they're new and trying new things out. I think they have their own milsim soon but you could always just ask I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Thanks I will get in touch with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSwoop Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 What happens if the 'Spec Ops' get in a nd rescue the Hostage and get out all within an hour of the start? Do you reset and do it again? As already suggested putting the team in as a seperate third force between two regular factions might be good. Both the regular teams are hostile to the Spec Ops and they have their own seperate objectives throughout the day. That way they could be used in several different scenarios. For example apart from hostage rescue a Spec Ops could take part in a Capture the Flag where they have to capture and extract both of the other teams flags etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armysurplusandtoys Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 sounds good to me, to one idea in if say you had one area the hostage being held (building or woodland). with say 30 players 10 SF team 20 defending. the sf team is broken into 3 section two assault teams of 4 (could even go up to 8 if too many players that day?) and on OP team relaying any vital info via radio comms? with the rest like a militia with low organisation. then say the game only lasts 1 hour is simple with 3-4 og game time you would simply swap the teams and start again so everyone could have a go at the SF team? what do you think then charge everyone the same fee's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Ian_Gere Posted September 25, 2013 Supporters Share Posted September 25, 2013 While I salute the sentiment, AS&T, I think that it's one thing to play SF and quite another to have a degree of organisation and skills which will translate into the advantage a smaller team needs to beat a larger team with the average level of ad hoc organisation which develops during a game day. I suppose swapping sides might work if the SF team are provided with a couple of instructors as team leaders and time to have some SOP's explained to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters jcheeseright Posted September 25, 2013 Supporters Share Posted September 25, 2013 Agreed, the reasons special forces can sometimes take on greater numbers (not that many mind, don't believe everything you see in the films, 2-1 is still 2-1!) are better training, superior equipment, the element of surprise combined with stealth and/or overwhelming force. It also helps that generally they'll have spent potentially days or weeks planning a particular mission and will each know their own and everyone else's roles inside out. Sadly none of those things translate realistically into airsoft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose87 Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 you could make sure that the SF team all has comms and that defenders arent allowed. the sf team has maps and good intel and that defenders just have to work it out in patrols. giving rise to ambushes by sf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters jcheeseright Posted September 25, 2013 Supporters Share Posted September 25, 2013 that works great until the ambushed OPFOR respawn and tell their mates where the SF team are coming from. I just don't see this kind of game working without a huge amount of roleplay on the part of the OPFOR team which you're unlikely to get because everyone likes shooting people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armysurplusandtoys Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 moose87 thats what i was thinking too. Ian i suppose that yes some instruction would be needed or each team as some veterans who can train the rest of the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Ian_Gere Posted September 25, 2013 Supporters Share Posted September 25, 2013 Yeah James, there would need to be an inherent game mechanics advantage for the SF that didn't feel so unfair to everyone else that it causes a whinge fest. Maybe the SF on medic and everyone else on regen, with a long enough way to walk that the SF would have had chance to displace before they get back. There could be additional rules to achieve the same sort of thing - maybe make the regen involve a 5min wait and/or give the SF chance to regen at the marshal observing them but then not be allowed to return to their previous position. Still, that's another issue - if surprise is to be achieved, any marshal looking out for the SF would need to be equally as stealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armysurplusandtoys Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 yes defo i suppose with the sf team maybe only one or two medic chances then out the game for good, thus making the sf team more vulnerable so will make it so the tactics and skills are needed more? yes the marshals would have to be esp if they know they are coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Ian_Gere Posted September 25, 2013 Supporters Share Posted September 25, 2013 Maybe the SF's need a player marshal and ad hoc regens? High degree of personal honour too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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