Problem selling a rif

[1967PF44]

21 hours ago, emilianoksa said:

A would be buyer gave me what he thought was his UKARA number. He seemed to think that it wasn't necessary and the site he played at and was a marshal for, could vouch for him. He also said that I could check his site feedback or Linkedin page. I responded that word of mouth from somebody you don't know meant nothing. And how could I check anything if he hadn't given me his name?

 

I asked him to supply his name and postcode. He sent me a photo of a metal tag with the information. However I had difficulty reading it. In any case I told him that a photo was not necessarily proof of anything.

 

All I wanted him to do was give me his name, postcode and UKARA number. He messaged me 12 times over a period of seven days and only in the last message typed out all three of his details. The UKARA number he originally gave me, which he said he thought he could remember, was close but not the correct one. He later corrected it.  So far, so good.

 

When he learned that I intended to check details with a retailer, he told me that anyone providing me with information that an UKARA number had expired would be breaking the law. Apparently it would be a breach of the General Data Protection Regulation. Since he is a former police officer and has also worked as a para legal, I am not sure how to respond.

 

He believes I don't understand the law, and he may be right. 

 

Quite frankly the whole business has put me off selling. I have seriously considered just keeping the gun. Would anyone care to comment? 

 

 

So your claims are almost accurate - and I think this has got out of hand - because of a misunderstanding- or misrepresentation of what was actually said - message 1 was I’ll buy that if it’s still available, - you respond - what’s your Ukara ? Very fair and indeed well intentioned- I support anyone insuring that airsoft guns only get sold to those with a genuine legal use for them 

 

message two  I think my Ukara is ****** I have used it for years I don’t buy from retailers - subsequent message contains a clear image of my name the Ukara number and post code on the tags issued by my regular site where I Marshall, I provided you their details to make it easy to verify my player status - as I honestly believe that you have no right to check my player status on the Ukara database if you are not a retailer who subscribes to the informs and is selling me a RIf - I asked if you were a. Retailer (you didn’t answer!

in aa further separate message I also provided my full name post code and Ukara with an additional zero on front as it’s reproduced with  one zero on my emails and 2 on my tags - not sure what one is correct - however a search in the database on either finds it.

 

as far as the law is concerned - I simply tried to explain that UKara is Not the only available defence and that verifying my player status through my site would be less cumbersome and easier for you. 
 

it appears the matter is further complicated by the fact you have not received the message with my name and postcode - which is unfortunate as all of this nonsense could have been avoided - I just wanted you pay you your asking price for a gun I wanted to add to my collection . Lol 

 

anyway, the trolls have had there fun as a result of the genuine questions asked - I bear you no hard feelings -  and wish you luck with future sales and purchases 

 

PS The GDPR expert I have access to has confirmed that the sharing of my Ukara status with a member of the public who does not subscribe to the information would meet the “lawful purpose” test and friendly retailers who check People out for their mates are probably breaking the law. @ak2m4

21 hours ago, Iceni said:

Sounds like the Guys a cock.

All he had to do was provide a Ukara number, name and postage address. If he can't manage to do that and is generating excuses then there's something wrong.

Actually checking a Ukara number isn't a breach of privacy. All you are doing is checking information that has been provided, and none of that information is sensitive. It doesn't tell you his bank details ect.

And if he is/has been a police officer, and you sell it to him without Ukara then you have just provided them with your own court case. It's time to walk away from the sale.

For the benefit of the doubt the information was provided at the first request along with further supporting information to help the seller easily verify my player status. 2nd my UKARA status is in fact “personal information” in terms of GDPR and is only accessible to those retailers that I have consented to using for the purposes of selling me a RIF. None of us have consented to that being made available to the general  public 

 

many Airsofters I know have to

conceal their interests in the hobby from sensitive employers 

21 hours ago, concretesnail said:

The potential buyer is a prick.

 

Ukara wouldn't release any information he wouldn't be giving you already; name, address, etc. If you're shipping to him.

If a retailer confirms active or non active only then they aren't releasing any personal data either so aren't in breach of data protection, they are confirming only what you have offered.

 

If they have been a police officer in the past then the lack of intelligence seems to make me glad to think that they no longer are. 

 

Forget them as a buyer, move on or keep the rif.

 

 

 

 

Hmm, labelling me a prick on one half of the story !! 

20 hours ago, emilianoksa said:

Thanks.

 

It is true that somebody could send me a photo of him skirmishing with a rif, but if I had never met him and didn't know what he looked like,  how would I know it was him?

 

 

 

 

As I explained you have the same issue on any anonymous site ! 
 

nobody on here uses their real name (well very few do) mine at least my initials - I offered several sources of information to help you verify my player status- my linkd in profile, my name post code Ukara, my regular site, my regular retailer, my profile feedback here is all positive - I genuinely don’t know what else I could have done - lol  

[BreadyC]

11 minutes ago, 1967PF44 said:

Hmm, labelling me a prick on one half of the story !! 

 

You did tell us you were a cop too...

Edited August 29, 2022 by BreadyC

[1967PF44]

20 hours ago, Tackle said:

To echo what has already been said, the wannabee buyer is obviously an idiot, & probably a serial liar, I'd walk away now as he sounds like he'd be a potential serious problem later on. 

PS, in the interests of all members here, in order not to get caught up in this possible entrapment, I'd name the guy ! 

 

My moneys on him being a sub 18 schoolkid bullshitter. 

It’s was me- I like the judgement based on one slightly inaccurate side of the story - lol serial liar and under 18 lol, part of that I can only

Wish was true - 

2 minutes ago, BreadyC said:

 

You did tell us you were a cop too...

Former cop - long retired !! 

[Tackle]

FYI, there are at least a couple of well known retailers, that when presented with a name/address/ukara number, will willingly confirm whether its active & name & the address is correct. 

They do so in the knowledge that while they have no financial gain from doing so, they're helping to ensure that even rifs sold privately go to someone who has demonstrated their entitlement to posses them. 

For that they should be commended, while we don't all agree with the vcra & how it's applied, it's all we have so no one can be criticised for trying to adhere to it, even if decide to withdraw from a sale because theyre being overly cautious or unsure of the legality, it with the right intentions. 

 

PS, yep it is based on a one sided story, but 12 messages to establish name/address/ukara sounds like hard work, & then you allegedly spit your dummy out about gdpr within a system that you signed up for, & your reluctance for the op to check its validity.......... 

Doesn't come across as fishy at all lol😏, hence the reactions of most peeps here, myself included. 

It is still the school holidays after all🤣

[1967PF44]

21 hours ago, Tommikka said:

Note - for the ‘lawful basis’ context, the OP would be the law checking up on someone. As opposed to using the UKARA as a source to confirm the information provided.

 

Anyone who would be committing a GDPR offence with UKARA data would be the data holders.

Either the central UKARA register, or the sites register.

 

The data is collected for specified purposes, which include checking a registered players details are valid.

The data should not be held longer than required ….. so in theory expired memberships could be deleted and validation would come back as failed

But legacy data can be retained for a reasonable period to protect sellers if they needed to legally justify a past sale.

 

The guy is being a dick, but they are also correct that UKARA details are not required and the seller could ‘legally’ sell based on other ‘evidence’ such as photos of playing 

(But it is up to the seller what they accept as it is the seller who is legally responsible for any UKARA offence)

(((PPS as a former ‘former police officer’, what would be their opinion of gov.uk websites & the motor insurance industry providing open access to whether or not a vehicles registration has valid MOT, road duty & insurance, including a full MOT history of failures ?

 

That can tell you a fair bit of ‘personal’ information about the owners 

You clearly understand the GDPR stuff - the mot/insurance stuff is specifically exempt - and actually you can’t access keepers details etc. 

 

the “ lawful purpose” test however I don’t think  any of us quite understand properly - a private seller has no lawful purpose in accessing a retailers database - the purpose of the database is to Allow subscribing “retailers” to verify player status to defend the retailer against prosecution for a section 36 ?? Offence.  The “personal information” that is protected by law is not my name, postcode or Ukara No, but it is my status - active, inactive or void (I think is the third term)  the information commissioner has previously confirmed in a case that this is “personal information” and went beyond that by saying it’s also personally sensitive. I know a few players that conceal their enjoyment and participation of airsoft from

their particularly sensitive employers and in one case family - imagine if my employer (sensitive to firearms issues) added a search of the UKARA database to their pre promotion due diligence checks ??   
 

in any case it’s all a bit of nonsense - I provided the guy with my Ukara No and a whole load of additional information to make it easy for him to verify my player status. - why he has behaved the way he has is beyond me - I have nothing to hide, I have great feedback on this site both as a buyer and seller - and yet the trolls are out calling me a cock, prick, habitual liar, untrustworthy cunt, lol on the basis of a strange sellers behaviour ?? Isn’t the internet brilliant 

 

13 minutes ago, Tackle said:

FYI, there are at least a couple of well known retailers, that when presented with a name/address/ukara number, will willingly confirm whether its active & name & the address is correct. 

They do so in the knowledge that while they have no financial gain from doing so, they're helping to ensure that even rifs sold privately go to someone who has demonstrated their entitlement to posses them. 

For that they should be commended, while we don't all agree with the vcra & how it's applied, it's all we have so no one can be criticised for trying to adhere to it, even if decide to withdraw from a sale because theyre being overly cautious or unsure of the legality, it with the right intentions. 

 

PS, yep it is based on a one sided story, but 12 messages to establish name/address/ukara sounds like hard work, & then you allegedly spit your dummy out about gdpr within a system that you signed up for, & your reluctance for the op to check its validity.......... 

Doesn't come across as fishy at all lol😏, hence the reactions of most peeps here, myself included. 

It is still the school holidays after all🤣

And that’s where the inaccuracy lies- the UKARA, name and postcode were provided along with a plethora of other information allowing  seller to verify my player status in the second, maybe 3rd message- not 12th and the GDPR comments were only

made when having provided all this information still no sale was happening and I became suspicious of the sellers motivation to gather my details.

 

Surely the safe way if you are risk averse - is to Agree a deal, accept payment- PayPal verifies name and address (first safe way of checking it confirms identity and that the buyer is over 18) armed with the already provided UKara - do your due dilligence, if that’s the defence type

you want to accept (again no criticism of the well meaning intentions) if not happy refund the payment - explain why and remain polite and reasonable !  
 

one phone call made by the seller after 3rd message - verified my Ukara with my site - if my PayPal payment details didn’t match, then he could have refunded and said sorry something not right no sale 😀, it’s not rocket science I don’t think, I’ve been doing it that way for 12 years
 

 

[Cannonfodder]

1 hour ago, 1967PF44 said:

It went quite well - it answered the questions I didn’t know the answered too 

Iirc you didn't ask,  just stated a load of nonsense about the ukara database and GDPR and was quickly shown to be as truthful as a MP's pre election promises 

 

Also,  even if I was to believe your employment claims, being ex plod, working for a law firm or a site marshal doesn't mean you get special treatment

1 hour ago, 1967PF44 said:

It went quite well - it answered the questions I didn’t know the answered too 

Iirc you didn't ask,  just stated a load of nonsense about the ukara database and GDPR and was quickly shown to be as truthful as a MP's pre election promises 

 

Also,  even if I was to believe your employment claims, being ex plod, working for a law firm or a site marshal doesn't mean you get special treatment

[1967PF44]

3 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

Iirc you didn't ask,  just stated a load of nonsense about the ukara database and GDPR and was quickly shown to be as truthful as a MP's pre election promises 

 

Also,  even if I was to believe your employment claims, being ex plod, working for a law firm or a site marshal doesn't mean you get special treatment

Iirc you didn't ask,  just stated a load of nonsense about the ukara database and GDPR and was quickly shown to be as truthful as a MP's pre election promises 

 

Also,  even if I was to believe your employment claims, being ex plod, working for a law firm or a site marshal doesn't mean you get special treatment

For clarity - I’ve never asked for special treatment, never claimed to work for a law firm

[Cannonfodder]

22 minutes ago, 1967PF44 said:

The “personal information” that is protected by law is not my name, postcode or Ukara No, but it is my status - active, inactive or void (I think is the third term)  the information commissioner has previously confirmed in a case that this is “personal information” and went beyond that by saying it’s also personally sensitive.

Got a link for that? 

[1967PF44]

1 minute ago, Cannonfodder said:

Got a link for that? 

No…but Im not sure what link you would be looking for ??  
 

you had me curious as well- I revisited

my UKARA topic post….it’s full

of “questions” lol - all of which were answered unless you were referring to a different post 

[Cannonfodder]

5 minutes ago, 1967PF44 said:

For clarity - I’ve never asked for special treatment, never claimed to work for a law firm

You claimed to be a paralegal. Who do they work for if not law firms? 

 

Mentioning those things when unnecessary implies that, even if it's not directly said

 

I asked for a link to where, when and what case the information commissioner said that. Or are we supposed to just take your word for it? 

[1967PF44]

Actually paralegals work for lots of organisations 

 

and the mention of that was after all the Ukara info had been supplied and I was trying to help explain why I was so familiar with the law, not trying to gain any favours or special treatment (it’s all in the context- often lost on the interweb- particularly in forums

and groups like It seems) 

 

I actually don’t care if you believe me, but a quick call to the very helpful ICO would verify my claim if you are that interested. I don’t actually think I can link the written information 

 

however in general terms and it’s easy to

find on the ICO website - membership status of any club, organisation, professional body 

or Union is personally sensitive information.  

[Cannonfodder]

So you're unable to provide evidence to back up your claim and expect us to all take your word for it

[Tackle]

I knew someone who claimed to be a solicitor, when pushed he then downgraded it to "well actually I'm a paralegal", bit more digging & it transpired he was only a conveyancer, not a very good one at that lol. 

[Adolf Hamster]

 

without the context of the actual messages [and i'm not suggesting that should be posted], from the external view it seems to be a case of he said/she said.

 

sounds to me like both sides shoulda just left this in the pm chain, there's always gonna be another buyer, and there's always gonna be someone else selling the shiny.

[1967PF44]

56 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

So you're unable to provide evidence to back up your claim and expect us to all take your word for it

Don’t expect anyone to take my word for it, do your own research, the law is clear and readily available online 

35 minutes ago, Tackle said:

I knew someone who claimed to be a solicitor, when pushed he then downgraded it to "well actually I'm a paralegal", bit more digging & it transpired he was only a conveyancer, not a very good one at that lol. 

Plenty in the world like that, but I’m easy to find online and my qualifications are genuine, lol 

7 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

without the context of the actual messages [and i'm not suggesting that should be posted], from the external view it seems to be a case of he said/she said.

 

sounds to me like both sides shoulda just left this in the pm chain, there's always gonna be another buyer, and there's always gonna be someone else selling the shiny.

The whole situation discussed here is incredibly out of context - I agree, in fact I have already directly apologised for any misunderstanding that was generated by any reply I made in the pms discussing  the sale - the simple facts are I just wanted to buy the guys gun, in the same way that  I have brought many over the last 10/12 years without drama. Lol.  The time delay between reading messages and responding didn’t help, and messages  not being sent right away due to piss poor Scottish internet where I was seems to have added to the confusion. Add that to a genuine question being taken the wrong way (typical of the Internet forums) and sparking a overly sensitive reaction. Before you know it a highly rated seller/buyer is being called an “untrustworthy cunt”  by some troll that hasn’t taken time to hear the whole story (again common on the forums it seems) 

[Enid_Puceflange]

So why make it hard for yourself to buy something from somebody that is just wanting to cover their back by checking a UKARA to give them some confidence that you , the buyer , have a genuine defence for buying a replica?

Im at a loss trying to understand why you would make it difficult for both parties?

or am I missing a bigger picture here? 🤯

[Cannonfodder]

14 minutes ago, 1967PF44 said:

Don’t expect anyone to take my word for it, do your own research, the law is clear and readily available online 

You made the claim so it's up to up to you to back it up with evidence. In my experience those who say "do your own research" are unable to as there isn't any

[1967PF44]

21 minutes ago, Enid_Puceflange said:

So why make it hard for yourself to buy something from somebody that is just wanting to cover their back by checking a UKARA to give them some confidence that you , the buyer , have a genuine defence for buying a replica?

Im at a loss trying to understand why you would make it difficult for both parties?

or am I missing a bigger picture here? 🤯

You are missing the the facts, because the OP has not really told the story accurately  I supplied my UKARA in the first message after he asked for it,  however what I said was - this is my number ********* I think! , and said something like, I’ve never used it for years as I don’t buy from retailers….  He may have assumed by that comment that it’s expired, which of course if he actually checked would know it wasn’t.  What I meant was I wasn’t certain of the number as I never have had cause to use it.  Although as discussions went on, I’m not sure he even tried to check. Within the next message or 2 from me I asked for an update? And offered additional information to help him verify my player status, including a very clear picture of my membership tags, which contain my full name, post code and No., details of my profile on another platform so that he could verify my identity, which would have been confirmed further by the PayPal payment, details of the site where I play and Marshall, I pointed him to my profile and feedback on here to verify I was a long standing member of good reputation……. To which he basically said photos and profile information doesn’t prove anything as I could be anyone….. I didn’t point out that there are quite a few fake entries on the UKARA Database. Lol 

Just now, 1967PF44 said:

You are missing the the facts, because the OP has not really told the story accurately  I supplied my UKARA in the first message after he asked for it,  however what I said was - this is my number ********* I think! , and said something like, I’ve never used it for years as I don’t buy from retailers….  He may have assumed by that comment that it’s expired, which of course if he actually checked would know it wasn’t.  What I meant was I wasn’t certain of the number as I never have had cause to use it.  Although as discussions went on, I’m not sure he even tried to check. Within the next message or 2 from me I asked for an update? And offered additional information to help him verify my player status, including a very clear picture of my membership tags, which contain my full name, post code and No., details of my profile on another platform so that he could verify my identity, which would have been confirmed further by the PayPal payment, details of the site where I play and Marshall, I pointed him to my profile and feedback on here to verify I was a long standing member of good reputation……. To which he basically said photos and profile information doesn’t prove anything as I could be anyone….. I didn’t point out that there are quite a few fake entries on the UKARA Database. Lol 

In short I didn’t think I had made it hard, I gave him everything he asked for. 

[1967PF44]

24 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

You made the claim so it's up to up to you to back it up with evidence. In my experience those who say "do your own research" are unable to as there isn't any

I can’t link the GDPR page for some reason, but A direct quote, “personal Data” means any information relating to an identified or identifiable individual”  the definition of “Senstive data” includes membership of trade unions and other organisations such as clubs, protest groups, etc - basically anything that reveals a sensitive aspect of your life.  So our membership and activity status on the UKARA database can only be shared with explicit consent for specified purpose under Article 9 GDPR, Paragraph 2a.. 

 

So it follows that like all airsofters who are on the UKARA database we have given specific consent in signing up, to allow “ retailer “ who subscribe to the scheme access to the information to allow them to satisfy themselves that they can lawfully sell a RIF, and for no other purpose.   (Words to that effect are certainly on the form I signed many many years ago when I joined.   
 

now in reality it actually doesn’t matter to me, I’m not sensitive about my UKARA membership, and when I supplied the information -on request-  to the seller, it hadn’t occurred to me that unless he is a retailer he really has no way of checking me out. So I offered him a whol list of other ways to verify my good standing, including one that would have verified my UKARA status, but for some reason he chose not to do that, ……..and I am the strange one  being called all sorts of unfortunate names. 

[Tommikka]

2 hours ago, 1967PF44 said:

I can’t link the GDPR page for some reason, but A direct quote, “personal Data” means any information relating to an identified or identifiable individual”  the definition of “Senstive data” includes membership of trade unions and other organisations such as clubs, protest groups, etc - basically anything that reveals a sensitive aspect of your life.  So our membership and activity status on the UKARA database can only be shared with explicit consent for specified purpose under Article 9 GDPR, Paragraph 2a.. 

 

So it follows that like all airsofters who are on the UKARA database we have given specific consent in signing up, to allow “ retailer “ who subscribe to the scheme access to the information to allow them to satisfy themselves that they can lawfully sell a RIF, and for no other purpose.   (Words to that effect are certainly on the form I signed many many years ago when I joined.   
 

now in reality it actually doesn’t matter to me, I’m not sensitive about my UKARA membership, and when I supplied the information -on request-  to the seller, it hadn’t occurred to me that unless he is a retailer he really has no way of checking me out. So I offered him a whol list of other ways to verify my good standing, including one that would have verified my UKARA status, but for some reason he chose not to do that, ……..and I am the strange one  being called all sorts of unfortunate names. 

Under the GDPR, personal data is that which identifies/links to  you as a living individual, which includes your name, DOB, address/postcode, email, telephone number, memberships number etc

 

Sensitive personal data covers areas such as:

race

ethnic background

political opinions

religious beliefs

trade union membership

genetics

biometrics (where used for identification)

health

sex life or orientation

 

https://www.gov.uk/data-protection
 

Trade unions are listed, which can be particularly sensitive when considering employment, protest groups are not listed but are a fair call with regards to the potential links to beliefs / politics and sensitivities on differing opinions and the influence it could have on someone’s opinion of you in unrelated areas.

 

Membership of a group does not fall into the same level, unless there would be factors relating to the type of group.

 

 

Airsoft could be something you feel touchey about publicising it.

However, you are attempting to buy an Airsoft gun from someone which implies you play Airsoft and they are also legally liable if they sell to you without a valid purpose.

You have given them the elements of personal data, and there would be no GDPR breach in confirming status under the UKARA.

 

The entire purpose of the UKARA player database is to validate an individuals status, and the GDPR declaration states that information will be shared among parties - and they are not restricted to retailers only (it does state that they are the primary purpose).  The specifics on the wording from the UKARA may vary over time and also with a site specific form as you sign up as a member of a site which is then added to the central UKARA player database.

 

Note that a seller does not get provided with the members details. The UKARA or a site confirm or deny that the records match

 

 

 

[Iceni]

21 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

Note that a seller does not get provided with the members details. The UKARA or a site confirm or deny that the records match

The details been kept by Ukara are literally, Name, Address, Skirmish site, Ukara Status, Email.

Given that this is a transaction where postage is needed you have already provided, Name, Address, Valid Ukara, potentially Email.

So exactly the same information is passed on regardless. As you can only have a RIF shipped to your Ukara address. If it's shipped to another address, or name then it's outside of the scope of Ukara defence and should be flagged.

Providing a Ukara number in order to make a sale, Is giving permission for that Ukara number to be checked. And the conversation should be wholly one sided if you need to contact a retailer to make that check.

The conversation needs to go like I have X number to check, Mr X, of X address. And the answer only needs to be a confirmation of information. Ukara and the retailer do not provide information about the buyer, That information has already been provided by the buyer to the seller.
 

 

[1967PF44]

57 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

Under the GDPR, personal data is that which identifies/links to  you as a living individual, which includes your name, DOB, address/postcode, email, telephone number, memberships number etc

 

Sensitive personal data covers areas such as:

race

ethnic background

political opinions

religious beliefs

trade union membership

genetics

biometrics (where used for identification)

health

sex life or orientation

 

https://www.gov.uk/data-protection
 

Trade unions are listed, which can be particularly sensitive when considering employment, protest groups are not listed but are a fair call with regards to the potential links to beliefs / politics and sensitivities on differing opinions and the influence it could have on someone’s opinion of you in unrelated areas.

 

Membership of a group does not fall into the same level, unless there would be factors relating to the type of group.

 

 

Airsoft could be something you feel touchey about publicising it.

However, you are attempting to buy an Airsoft gun from someone which implies you play Airsoft and they are also legally liable if they sell to you without a valid purpose.

You have given them the elements of personal data, and there would be no GDPR breach in confirming status under the UKARA.

 

The entire purpose of the UKARA player database is to validate an individuals status, and the GDPR declaration states that information will be shared among parties - and they are not restricted to retailers only (it does state that they are the primary purpose).  The specifics on the wording from the UKARA may vary over time and also with a site specific form as you sign up as a member of a site which is then added to the central UKARA player database.

 

Note that a seller does not get provided with the members details. The UKARA or a site confirm or deny that the records match

 

 

 

It’s been an interesting discussion,  with at least a few making good well thought out or researched arguments. Making them without insults adds to the value of the discussion and  allows others to learn from the wealth of knowledge and experience in the group. 
 

The list of specifics is a list of examples (not an exclusive list) hence the use of “such as”  and I can assure you it includes  things like club membership., and would include site membership. I say this for the sole purpose of the strict legal position and not for the purposes of the OPs original post (the thread has moved on) I say this on the basis of experience where membership of a rifle club was revealed to an employer of a friend of mine who was thereafter turned down for promotion. The employer had a very public anti firearms/anti hunting position and actually told him his possession of air rifles and shotguns was incompatible with the promoted post he was applying for.  Several employers I am aware of have stated a very clear preference that  employees don’t have Airsoft images on their  social media presence. So being on the UKARA register is sensitive to some - and that’s all that is required to hit that definition.

 

so it follows that any Tom dick an harry cannot be allowed access to that information- in the case  in question,  I actually would not have minded the seller verifying  my player status, and that’s why I immediately on request provided him everything he needed name, address, Ukaar No, an image of my tags containing the same info, the name of my regular site, I mentioned I Marshall at that site, and a quick call to them will verify everything - surely it was better for him to call someone that knows me rather than some random retailer who has no idea who I am and who would ultimately be (in my and many others opinion)  breaking the law, even if done in good faith and with good intentions. 
 

it would been a moot point either way if the seller having demanded all of this information had simply used it, verified my status and sold me the pistol, he would have immediately had further confirmation of my ID and address from my verified PayPal account. 
 

To go back to the lawful purpose - because it’s deemed sensitive data, it needs specific consent to process it, I doubt any airsofter has given “specific” consent to UKARA as the data controller, to share their data with members of the public claiming to want to sell someone an Airsoft gun.   
**EDIT***

adirional info

actually regardless of whether we agree that membership status amounts to “sensitive information”  the UKARA.ORG GDPR PRIVACY POLICY confirms that the data is only held for the use of retailers, Border Force, Hampshire Police. Third party access is restricted to matters where data protection principals  are full filled (I assume “for filled” is a typo) - so that would be for the prevention or investigation of criminal acts etc….and only once a suitable and certified exemption declaration is supplied 

 

section 11 makes it clear that data is not accessible to third parties - I think that clears it up.

 

sadly doesn’t help me buy the beautiful RIF the OP was selling 😔

Edited August 29, 2022 by 1967PF44
Additional info

[Iceni]

46 minutes ago, 1967PF44 said:

Several employers I am aware of have stated a very clear preference that  employees don’t have Airsoft images on their  social media presence. So being on the UKARA register is sensitive to some

You can't search the database by name, I believe - But I may be wrong. I think the only search you can make is by number that leads to the information to confirm the Ukara status. I know when I've called to check my own status in the past I needed to provide my number, name alone wasn't enough, and my name is very unique with only a couple of hits worldwide.

The general public also don't have access to the database, hence we need to contact a retailer to confirm status.

As such an employer would need your Ukara number to actually make the search.




Air rifles under 12ft/lb no licence is needed in the UK and no information needs to be exchanged for a sale for any party other than confirmation of age. Scotland is different and the laws that Wee Jimmy Krankie put in place are frankly insane. I feel for you guys on that one.


 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Iceni

[1967PF44]

19 minutes ago, Iceni said:

You can't search the database by name, I believe - But I may be wrong. I think the only search you can make is by number that leads to the information to confirm the Ukara status. I know when I've called to check my own status in the past I needed to provide my number, name alone wasn't enough, and my name is very unique with only a couple of hits worldwide.

The general public also don't have access to the database, hence we need to contact a retailer to confirm status.

As such an employer would need your Ukara number to actually make the search.




Air rifles under 12ft/lb no licence is needed in the UK and no information needs to be exchanged for a sale for any party other than confirmation of age. Scotland is different and the laws that Wee Jimmy Cranky put in place are frankly insane. I feel for you guys on that one.


 

So you have recognised that the general public don’t have access to the register, but retailers are apparently sharing information from the register with the public, and that’s my point about GDPR - they are not allowed to do that.  My name and post code was sufficient for a UK retailer to verify my status a couple of years ago, don’t know if that’s changed, but that retailer added my UKARA no to the shipping package - so they were able to get that from the register. 

[Tackle]

My understanding is that they "share" feck all, you supply a UKARA number, ideally with a name & postcode, the helpful retailer will confirm if the ukara is still active & that all 3 snippets of information match, nothing more, so it's hardly a data breach, coupled with the fact that in order to get your ukara "licence" (😜), you willingly supplied this information to potentially numerous third parties. 

As a seller, they need to be convinced that your a bona fide airsofters, & the truth is some sellers need more convincing than others, but going down the ukara route also gives them the assurance that UKARA details match with PayPal & delivery address. 

Again, referencing the fact its the school Holidays, in 21 years of playing & forum memberships, pre & post vcra I've seen too many stories of sprogs trying to work the system to get their pubescent mitts on rifs. 

As I stated before, the rules aren't perfect & we may not all like & agree with them, buts it's all we've got so if anyone gets their panties in a twist over gdpr etc, don't register shit & it won't be a problem, but likewise don't be surprised if some people won't sell to you if your even the slightest bit cagey about stuff. 

 

Think back to the days when in order to buy a firearm privately, you were expected to mail your certificate to an unknown seller & hope he wasn't a crook, that was some fucked up shit that makes gdpr look positively bulletproof lol.