Transition from S95 DPM to BTP / MTP

[RostokMcSpoons]

Maybe I'm over-thinking the whole camouflage scenario, but looking around at the people at my site last week I thought that the lighter-coloured camo patterns were doing a better job of blending in with the autumnal vegetation and the grey tree trunks than the darker DPM that I was wearing.   I had to stick close to those lovely dark green holly bushes *ouch* 
 

It's almost like the army had actually managed to improve their camouflage pattern since them olden days   

Anyway, I've already been buying some of my bits and pieces in BTP (a combat belt/harness I'm picking up today, holster, mag and utility pouches) in preparation for the day when I'd change over from my old kit to the current pattern.  I'm feeling like I make the move earlier than I thought.
 

What is the recommendation for the kit to buy? 

 

• I'm expecting just to get a jacket and/or heavy shirt + trousers to get me through the autumn/winter/spring period, but is it better to go windproof rather than waterproof?
• There are the obvious variances of desert vs general purpose, but are there more nuanced differences in versions of the camo that might catch me out?
  (Especially if I buy from different sources... which is quite likely I'll have to, as the larger sizes - i.e. "fat b'stard" 38" waist, 44" chest - seem often to be sold out)

 

Obviously I could spend ages just looking at surplus sites and eBay, but it's really to avoid any 'gotchas' rather than me being lazy.  Honest!

[MadMole]

Just stick some brown ferns in your kit. 95 still works well in winter if you add browns. MTP is too light in woodland much of the year, its only in opened up areas where grey is introduced that it has any ability at all

[Ebeneezer Goode]

DPM works best in evergreen forest, as that's what it was designed for (when the thinking was that the West would be fighting the Reds in Germany in between lobbing nukes at each others cities). MTP resulted from most of our wars being in Middle Eastern parts and reflects that.

 

MTP is a better all rounder for the reasons you describe but that's not to say DPM isnt good.

[RostokMcSpoons]

Yeah I realised DPM is probably designed for the Fulda Gap as much as anywhere  
However, I stick with my assertion that MTP is a better camo for my site at this time of year, and although I might be chucking £30-50 on stuff I don't really need, when has that ever stopped us, eh? 

But I suppose the darker camo is going to get broken up a bit by my new multicam battle belt and harness.  I'll get someone to take a pic of me at the site this weekend, see what it looks like at a distance.
Also, I really ought to check to see if the site will stay open through this winter! 

[TheFull9]

There's no way MTP is ever better than DPM, literally dozens of unqualified airsofters who spend their entire lives at one site and irrationally hate anything popular because it's cool to be different have told me so.

 

If you want uniforms just get surplus issue stuff, commercial offerings (BTP, MTC etc etc) barely get within sniffing distance in terms of the quality for the price point.  Windproof and waterproof are 2 entirely different proposals, most issue uniform is fairly windproof the smock in particular but it's still extremely breathable.  Anything that's actually close to waterproof cooks you alive soon as you do much exertion and do NOT fall for the bullshit descriptions at airsoft retailers that describe any softshell jacket as waterproof; utter shite.  Wear a t-shirt and a standard PCS smock, put a fleece or whatever under it if you're not moving much in the cold and have a goretex jacket somewhere to hand if you expect it to really hammer down - that'll cover 95% of UK weather.

[Cannonfodder]

Good field craft and crap camo trumps poor field craft and the best camo every day of the week. 

 

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

@Cannonfodder But there's only one of those you can buy off the shelf

[Tommikka]

There is another factor in MTP if it’s the right material.

There is a bit of science in the design which ‘absorbs’ the environment and the nearest colours in the pattern are enhanced to the human eye.

 

It also depends on where those two pieces of material are in their life.

A surplus unissued smock will be dark

A surplus DPM smock that has been used for years and been through thousands of Army washing machine cycles or contract wash cycles is faded.

A particular surplus DPM could have been a lighter or darker shade depending on what contract and what era it was manufactured in.

Photos comparing patterns will also tell you too much.

They show you the difference seen by a light sensor and what it is to look at that image

The human eye sees the world differently - which field craft concentrates on.

Without the human eye element and whether you are truely looking, we have extensively used an automated sentry gun and found MTP very effective against other materials even in woodland.  It still performs the key function of ‘disruptive pattern materials’ which is to break up the human form

The AI did show a preference for heads, which aligns with the head not being in MTP and the human bodies natural ability to keep a head steady - plus the AI began its lessons up against a football, with the head being similar-ish

The AI needs to identify, track and predict where it’s valid target will be next.

With MTP it had a clear preference for headshots, without MTP it swayed a little more back to the ‘easier’ target of the torso 

 

(Not only the part of the target it aimed at, but the AI image analysis saved in its log)

[RostokMcSpoons]

Bejeesus, @Tommikka works for Skynet!!!

 

 

[Rogerborg]

18 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

£30-50 on stuff

 

If you want concealment rather than a "military loadout" then I would suggest giving civvy camo a fair shake.  E.g. see Decathlon's variations on "woodland camo".

 

[simonp]

54 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

If you want concealment rather than a "military loadout" then I would suggest giving civvy camo a fair shake.  E.g. see Decathlon's variations on "woodland camo".

 

That jacket actually looks alright but those trousers look awful

[RostokMcSpoons]

People would start calling me 'Twiggy'

 

That's out the running I'm afraid... as I mentioned I've already got some BTP webbing and pouches.  There'll be some pics on the 'What have I just bought' thread once my next delivery comes in.

(Prepare the 'Get out' GIF for use!)

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Bejeesus, @Tommikka works for Skynet!!!

 

 

You say that in jest….

 

 

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, simonp said:

That jacket actually looks alright but those trousers look awful

 

Mmm, they do a range of different stuff, and lighting can be peculiar. It's a genuine suggestion to consider, by the way. I have a poncho with a pattern not unlike that, it actually does a very decent job, and I've seen (or rather, not seen) a couple of chaps using those patterns locally.

 

Very dependent on the site and season, but as @RostokMcSpoons truth-bombs having a couple of different sets of camo is small potatoes compared to hundreds or thousands of pounds of wall hangers "backup guns"

[RostokMcSpoons]

If I can get get shot one less time in a day, thanks to better camo...

 

What is Infinity minus one, anyway?

 

 

I'm just futzing around with my new Viper Battle Harness 

Why do they put such stupidly long straps on these things?  I swear I could only make use of all of the shoulder straps if I was 10 feet tall.  So I either have to cut them and burn off the ends, or find creative ways to tuck the spare strapping away (which is what I've done for the moment).  

And the damned thing has fewer usable MOLLE slots than the cheaper black version I've got.  So with my holster on right hip, and my 2 double stacker fast mags on my left hip, it leaves my 5th and 6th mag pouches behind me, and the utility pouch I just ordered is going to end up as a bum bag.    Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

[TheFull9]

The best thing I ever figured out in terms of buying belts was my waist size in PALS columns (i.e  the slots).  Obviously if you already have a belt that's good you can just count, but as a very very rough guide PALS spacing is 1.5" horizontally so if you know your legit waist size with a tape measure you can figure things out before any potential belt related purchases if the website sizing guide is iffy or just nonexistent.

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Belts and harnesses can be hit and miss, if you pardon the pun, as different setups suit different individuals. I also find the sizing awkward as I'm only 5'6". Personally the simpler the better, as I carry nothing else apart from 2-3 mags and some BBs, however other folks carry loads of low caps, grenades, gas, etc etc etc and so require much more complex storage solutions.

 

I'd echo @Rogerborg's suggestion regarding "civvy" woodland hunting/fishing camo. Superb stuff. I use it for fishing, never skirmished in it but I'm a fan.

[RostokMcSpoons]

55 minutes ago, TheFull9 said:

The best thing I ever figured out in terms of buying belts was my waist size in PALS columns (i.e  the slots).  Obviously if you already have a belt that's good you can just count, but as a very very rough guide PALS spacing is 1.5" horizontally so if you know your legit waist size with a tape measure you can figure things out before any potential belt related purchases if the website sizing guide is iffy or just nonexistent.

By waist size I should have ( :counts slowly: )  one hundred and forty seven usable slots....

I've actually got 8 (double) slots on this belt... already used 6  and one would crowd the holster and hinder my quick-draw skills (ha ha), so really I've just got the one slot left for the pouch.  It'll do.  (And it did only cost £15 anyway)

 

39 minutes ago, Ebeneezer Goode said:

Belts and harnesses can be hit and miss, if you pardon the pun

 

 

Naughty, naughty, you're getting the special Moses Beacon pic...

 

...because that wasn't a pun      
 

Edited November 30, 2021 by RostokMcSpoons

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Happy Flighting!?