On the Hunt for a New Rig, Sniper Edition

[Davegolf]

I’ve got a drop leg setup for the P90 as those mags are lonnng, even for people with full size torsos!

 

Il ping some pictures up when home if you’re interested 

[Tackle]

I once had an amazing zahal idf commando vest, no molle but came with a couple of different style small back packs that nexus/velcroed in place, was made of a very soft (but strong) material, super lightweight when empty, literally no weight to it & amazingly comfortable, covered in useful pouches, & mag pouches big enough to take galil mags.

only reason I got rid was I'm 6.2 & it was short in the body, possibly a plus for you @Skara

only problem is I now can't remember the model name, & googling is just coming up with the more recent molle vests they're now using.

 

EDIT: another search is now making me think the vest was made by marom dolphin rather than zahal ?

 

another option is an old gen hsgi Denali or Warlord chest rig ?

[Skara]

Way too big.

 

Okay, let's remove the ak mags from the equation. M4 mags only.

[Lozart]

23 hours ago, Skara said:

 

@LozartI don't have 7.62 ak mags, I run either 5.45 or 5.56 ak mags (heresy, I know). Nonetheless the top part is the exact same for all three kinds and it's the one that needs to fit inside the pouches.

 

I've gone through a few google searches but can't find anything at all in Europe..

 

If you're happy to have a knock off, Emerson Gear make a good Gen V rig.

[Skara]

5 minutes ago, Lozart said:

If you're happy to have a knock off

I'd like to have the real thing, to be honest.

[Lozart]

6 minutes ago, Skara said:

I'd like to have the real thing, to be honest.

 

Fair.

 

https://victory-outdoor.com/uw-chest-rig-gen-iv-multicam.html or https://www.scopex.fr/en/products/tactical-chest-rigs-and-harness/ or https://www.insidersl.com/product/uw-chest-rig-gen-iv/ are the main EU distributors for Mayflower but they only seem to have the Gen IV. Might be worth contacting them to see if they can get the Gen V in for you? None of them are cheap mind you!

 

As and when they have stock, Tactical Kit will ship to Europe.

[Davegolf]

So how much kit are you wanting to carry?

 

Whats the load out goal?

[Skara]

1 hour ago, Davegolf said:

So how much kit are you wanting to carry?

 

Whats the load out goal?

Good question.

 

3/4 magazines, radio, knife (4" blade), a multi tool of some sort, gps, compass, notepad + pens/pencils, first aid stuff, small torch, snacks, gardening shears, length of cord, batteries for rifles and electronics, bbs, essentially everything one would need for a 8h+ game with no safezone nor resupply point apart from the occasional water fountain/stream, plus "mission essential items" such as optics, night vision, fake explosives, smoke grenades.

 

I'm pretty sure I could get away with the tmr but it is not meant to carry much more than just mags, all the weight is at the front and concentrated in a relatively small area and it's noticeable (for example when I run 4 mags and a full bag of bbs or a water bottle in the dangler).

I will of course have a backpack to carry water and those items which are not needed in a hurry like waterproofs or warm clothes, extra first aid gear, stuff like night vision during daytime or those mission essential items we already used or won't be needed for at least another 3/4 hours, maybe a small gas can and my mk23 (disassembled) if stealthy ninja stuff is required.

 

The load also varies according to the field I'm gonna be playing in, the last time we played at such events it was a shitshow of steep climbs, exposed tiny trails and consistent rain for 8 hours straight, I made the mistake of loading the TMR to the max which, to be 101% honest, sucked big black cocks as it made me give up on life just past 4 hours (I still feel bad about it after two years)..

 

EDIT: also forgot to mention that we use M4s in these events, so we can share magazines with each other.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Skara

[Lozart]

47 minutes ago, Skara said:

Good question.

 

3/4 magazines, radio, knife (4" blade), a multi tool of some sort, gps, compass, notepad + pens/pencils, first aid stuff, small torch, snacks, gardening shears, length of cord, batteries for rifles and electronics, bbs, essentially everything one would need for a 8h+ game with no safezone nor resupply point apart from the occasional water fountain/stream, plus "mission essential items" such as optics, night vision, fake explosives, smoke grenades.

 

I'm pretty sure I could get away with the tmr but it is not meant to carry much more than just mags, all the weight is at the front and concentrated in a relatively small area and it's noticeable (for example when I run 4 mags and a full bag of bbs or a water bottle in the dangler).

I will of course have a backpack to carry water and those items which are not needed in a hurry like waterproofs or warm clothes, extra first aid gear, stuff like night vision during daytime or those mission essential items we already used or won't be needed for at least another 3/4 hours, maybe a small gas can and my mk23 (disassembled) if stealthy ninja stuff is required.

 

The load also varies according to the field I'm gonna be playing in, the last time we played at such events it was a shitshow of steep climbs, exposed tiny trails and consistent rain for 8 hours straight, I made the mistake of loading the TMR to the max which, to be 101% honest, sucked big black cocks as it made me give up on life just past 4 hours (I still feel bad about it after two years)..

 

EDIT: also forgot to mention that we use M4s in these events, so we can share magazines with each other.

 

How about an LBT1961A?

[Davegolf]

Ok a lot of gear then.

 

Do you have a belt setup at the moment?

I think I have a winning setup for you 😁

[Tackle]

Eureka, I think I've got it 🤔 

 

Condor hydro harness mated to your TMR, it has a four row wide molle section on the lower back, allowing fitment of an extra utility pouch or even bigger ?, but it's still low profile enough to put a pack on over it.

Plus it'll be more comfortable on your shoulders than the skinny TMR straps.

[alxndrhll]

10 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Ok a lot of gear then.

 

Do you have a belt setup at the moment?

I think I have a winning setup for you 😁

Is it this per chance?

 

[Skara]

30 minutes ago, Lozart said:

LBT1961A

I have considered it, two things put me off though:

Double stack pouches (they flap about when half empty) and the lack of swift clips, I understand that they are not necessary but I'm not willing to mod a €440 rig (it's also out of my budget by a fair bit).

 

13 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Do you have a belt setup at the moment?

I think I have a winning setup for you 😁

Yes I do, I run a FRV belt (not always though) with just two pistol mags, one rifle mag, dump pouch and holster if I fancy a sidearm..

One thing o forgot to mention is that sidearms are typically dead weight in these events and I carry one only if requested by the organizer. As I said the only one would be the mk23 but I'll be storing it inside my backpack until I need to use it (for more than 5 seconds, that is).

 

And no, a split front Mav is not a winner

 

7 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Condor hydro harness mated to your TMR

It's not compatible unless I extensively mod it (swap all the webbing and buckles from 1.5" to 1").

[alxndrhll]

More food for thought than anything else, but on a more serious note I just think a broader consideration of what you’d consider ‘needing in a hurry’ might be worth having.

 

So much of the, being blunt, what I’d call unnecessary junk that you’d have down as wanting to carry on a rig would at best be in a backpack/rucksack for me.

 

In no way trying to say there is a right way of doing things, if there was I imagine all of the answers here would have been identical (budget permitting). It’s just kinda clicked for me that you ultimately want to carry a whole load of stuff, conveniently, comfortably, in a balanced capacity all on a chest rig with no direct counter ballast. Something like the Thing 2 from Spiritus would do a much better job of spreading/supporting that much weight but I ultimately think you’d wind up in at a not entirely different experience to the TMR after a few hours (at least without a better harness, i.e. the AirLite one but we’re in silly money territory at this point).

 

I’m open to being wrong, it’s been a long time since I felt the need to carry all but the kitchen sink with me. Just my thoughts having considered what it is you’re seemingly looking for. Especially in the longer games you have more than enough time to whip a backpack off and scoop out what you need, the only stuff you need immediate access to would be the same shite you’d want on what I’d call a ‘regular skirmish day’ i.e. your ‘combat stuff’ and hydration (mags, speedloader, maybe additional ammo on top of the speedloader contents, water, a spare RIF battery, pyro if that’s something you care for).

[Tackle]

50 minutes ago, Skara said:

It's not compatible unless I extensively mod it (swap all the webbing and buckles from 1.5" to 1").

Fitting 4 buckles to the hydro pack is hardly "extensive modification" , especially when you consider for £50 (or prob less) your adding a whole new aspect to a rig you already get on with, better comfort, h2o carrying capacity (which also offsets some of the weight on the front, plus some extra molle on the back, I've got an assortment of pouches that fit on mine, from a regular utility pouch, a much larger hsgi pouch to a Tasmanian tiger monster pouch that'll take respirators etc, lots of options for very little outlay ?

failing that, I doubt anybody makes what you want lol😜

 

Lol, all this talking about it makes me want to go out & get a tmr, do the mag pouches on it take m14 or fal mags ?

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

In similar situations/carrying similar gear, I've used Chicom chest rig, 56 pattern Chicom water bottle and an el cheapo canvas Highlander rucksack and shoulder bag.  

 

Canteen one side, shoulder bag the other (with pistol inside on lanyard), sarnies and extra water/clothes etc in the rucksack.   Weight evenly distributed, lots of capacity and costs peanuts.

 

Modern gear wise an SADF rig either chest or full vest is hard to beat.   

[Davegolf]

Ultimately I think the most minimalist setup is individual or mix of the following;

 

3: All non fighting/evading essentials in backpack.

This can be dumped prior to a forward objective or in the event of an ambush.

 

2: Operators belt - Velcro inner to rigger outer, supported with a PLCE yoke, this will full support load, sit flush under or over any other gear.

No padded liner - adds bulk and is not necessary when the belt is Velcro’d in place.

Run most of your fighting essentials on this and/or;

 

2: Low profile plate carrier, FC slick Slickster or similar.

I know you say they restrict your breathing but PCs like these are (I find) extremely comfortable, you don’t have to run training plates, the sides are elasticated so breathing/mobility is easy, the shoulders sit thinly and flush - so comfy under backpack/other gear.

You can also easily from the front slacken the grip for more breathing room on exertion/tabs etc

With no additional pouches you can carry your radio, some mags, tourniquet, other random.

You can slip a flush triple shingle in the front for more or better mag placement/indexing.

Additionally i run a 1.5L Source hydro inside the cummerbund, a med and general pouch at the rear side cummerbund.

And lastly an easy access admin pouch up top/front.

All of the above is so low profile it’s ridiculous.

 

1: A decent combat smock, should be the base layer, carrying all essential survival and navigational gear.

 

Good read hopefully 😂

 

Super low pro -

 

 

 

 

More mags -

 

 

Hydration -

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Davegolf

[Skara]

Can you hike 20 kilometres on shit terrain with that shit on without dying? kudos to you, because I can't

[Davegolf]

Just go naked and gaffer tape on what  you want then.

 

Options;

Stop being a tart

Grow a longer torso

Carry less gear

[Skara]

While I am itching to buy the mayflower gen4, I have scooped arount the internet a little bit to gather more information (on possible alternatives as well).

 

One horror story I seem to read often is that the magazine pouches on the gen 4 are a really tight fit for anything that's not a GI (standard aluminium) mag. I don't know if I should consider this a bonus because I run metal Lonex Flash Mags for these events. I do have a set of battleaxe epm clones but it's unlikely I'm gonna use them at a tournament (unless required, but this is extremely unlikely as midcaps just are not a thing here). There are also conflicting reports of magazine retention inserts fitting, some say KYWIs don't fit, others say MP-2s fit, others say neither fit, then you have all the fanboys shitting on each other.

In all this there are plenty of pictures of pmags inserted into the rig -.-

Fucking internet really.

 

Then, talking to my club president, he suggested the esstac boar he uses. the one piece rig is impossibru to find, the split front ones don't seem too bad, especially the "trimmed" version which only holds 4 mags instead of 6/8, I can swap the magazine holder things with ak if needed (also impossibru to find).

Is not swift clip compatible, though, and I'm trying to stay away from MOLLE platforms because they get bulky very quickly. Overall I'm not impressed by it and it's out of stock everywhere -.-

 

Still leaning towards the mayflower gen 4, I'm giving myself until Monday morning to decide, then I'm clicking "buy".

[Lozart]

2 minutes ago, Skara said:

While I am itching to buy the mayflower gen4, I have scooped arount the internet a little bit to gather more information (on possible alternatives as well).

 

One horror story I seem to read often is that the magazine pouches on the gen 4 are a really tight fit for anything that's not a GI (standard aluminium) mag. I don't know if I should consider this a bonus because I run metal Lonex Flash Mags for these events. I do have a set of battleaxe epm clones but it's unlikely I'm gonna use them at a tournament (unless required, but this is extremely unlikely as midcaps just are not a thing here). There are also conflicting reports of magazine retention inserts fitting, some say KYWIs don't fit, others say MP-2s fit, others say neither fit, then you have all the fanboys shitting on each other.

In all this there are plenty of pictures of pmags inserted into the rig -.-

Fucking internet really.

 

Then, talking to my club president, he suggested the esstac boar he uses. the one piece rig is impossibru to find, the split front ones don't seem too bad, especially the "trimmed" version which only holds 4 mags instead of 6/8, I can swap the magazine holder things with ak if needed (also impossibru to find).

Is not swift clip compatible, though, and I'm trying to stay away from MOLLE platforms because they get bulky very quickly. Overall I'm not impressed by it and it's out of stock everywhere -.-

 

Still leaning towards the mayflower gen 4, I'm giving myself until Monday morning to decide, then I'm clicking "buy".

 

OK, so the Gen IV I have is an Emerson clone so I can't say for certain if it's true across the board BUT, I have PTS EPMs in Kydex inserts in mine and they're fine. The bigger issue for me is that the mag pouches are really deep so there's not actually much of the mag sticking out to get hold of unless you have Ranger plates or Magpuls.

 

Not sure of your colour preference but worth checking out this dude on ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154388539468?hash=item23f246284c:g:shMAAOSwFpddVIVa he has quite a selection of Mayflower stuff. US based and shipping may make it too pricey but still.

 

Also - what about someone like WTF? Their stuff is nice, not too pricey and modular too. https://www.wtfidea.com/gear/

[Skara]

Shipping is fair, import fees aren't 😕

 

about WTF, can't find chest rigs, only accessories and modifications for existing stuff 😕

 

edit: nvm found the "turnkey" rigs. The smaller mp5 style one looks interesting, might have a closer look at it in the future.

2 hours ago, Lozart said:

I have PTS EPMs in Kydex inserts in mine and they're fine. The bigger issue for me is that the mag pouches are really deep so there's not actually much of the mag sticking out to get hold of unless you have Ranger plates or Magpuls.

Good. My epm clones have those small rubbery plates, not proper ranger plates though. I was considering running some MP2 inserts, they are supposed to be compatible with MF pouches, if not, KYWIs.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Skara

[Lozart]

On 21/05/2021 at 18:53, Skara said:

 

 

Good. My epm clones have those small rubbery plates, not proper ranger plates though. I was considering running some MP2 inserts, they are supposed to be compatible with MF pouches, if not, KYWIs.

 

MP2 inserts might be a bit short. I can try mine if you want?

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Have you considered this?  

 

Carries all your kit and no problems with breathability or mag retention being too tight.  Just stick it all in the basket and away you go.  

 

[Skara]

Haha, that could work! Actually, the Velcro jacket idea is something I might do in the future 😛

 

ended up ordering a mayflower gen 4 from the US of A, hopefully it'll be here before July 11th (have a tournament booked, short one but it'll be a good chance to test the rig).

 

On 23/05/2021 at 03:34, Lozart said:

 

MP2 inserts might be a bit short. I can try mine if you want?

Saw a video of one guy (bb warrior something) who used mp2 inserts in a mf gen 4 rig, I remember him saying they were a hair short too. If you happen to have multiple inserts and you don't mind taking a few pictures, I'd appreciate it!

 

On a side note, I might replace all the fucking buckles I have on my TMR and Pentagon flatpack clone with ITWs so I have a 100% compatible system where I can interchange harnesses, packs, rigs depending on my needs.

Might also buy a replica of the crye airlite harness (Found one on aliexpress, I know it's not the real thing but good luck sourcing just the harness) to tinker around with.