Lunacy in Public. Man Points Bb Pistol at Police.

[Cannonfodder]

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Cannonfodder

[MiK]

@Cannonfodder Yea watched this a wee while ago - full respect for the guy to actually do this, more so for having it televised and his mistakes.

1. Ends up dead

2. Commits murder

3. Gets the right result but has problem to restrain perp with one hand and maybe over use of the knee.

My one take away was that the activist was so very quick to pull his gun instead of his voice.

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by MiK

[EDcase]

12 minutes ago, MiK said:

@Cannonfodder Yea watched this a wee while ago - full respect for the guy to actually do this, more so for having it televised and his mistakes.

1. Ends up dead

2. Commits murder

3. Gets the right result but has problem to restrain perp with one hand and maybe over use of the knee.

My one take away was that the activist was so very quick to pull his gun instead of his voice.

 

It was a training scenario

[Cannonfodder]

Yes, it was a training exercise, but it still shows the stress the officer is under in such scenarios along with the way snap decisions must be made and how the situation can change in an instant. 

[ImTriggerHappy]

As a taxpayer I wish they had just shot the pratt, a bullet and a funeral are cheaper than keeping these idiots in jail. It's not like morons are a protected species.

 

More seriously though while the police did a good job descalating part of me as someone who has a brother on the job wonders should we really expect them to put themselves in harms way to do so.  A police officer should expect to go home uninjured and alive and we the public should be behind that a 100% even if that means taking a harder line on those who are ultimately in the wrong.

 

At the point someone threatens the life of an officer or member of the public with a weapon then as far as I am concerned their human rights go out the window. 

 

As for the American police I agree that better training would benefit but none of us can understand what it is like doing that job over there. The levels of violence towards the police over there in some areas is huge so you have to wonder after the crap they go through is it any wonder some lose respect for the job and the people they deal with. Not that that makes the actions of some right but maybe the actions of some more understandable. I would hope very few actually start the job without hoping to make a difference and just want to be bullies but if that is the case then they definitely need better screening.

 

 

[THE FNG]

Feel quite sorry for the police. Damned if they do, damned if they dont.

Arguments for all outcomes and "they should have done this instead" can be applied to every scenario. 

 

For example; say the cop shot the prick.

"Oh he should have used de-escalation tactics and non lethal force" or "excessive violence, just like the Americans, ACAB, kill the bill etc"

 

Say he doesnt shoot, like this scenario:

"He hesitated, he shouldn't be in the role, he cant keep the streets safe etc" or "what's the point in cops having firearms if they arent going to use them" etc.

 

There are SOOOO many variables that joe public dont know about and the media typically only push thier own dogmatic narrative despite having less than half the facts....and the public lap it up and join in. 

 

Hats off to that cop; whether he had intel or prior knowledge of the weapon or not, he still looked down the barrel of that firearm and didnt know 100% if it was a lethal or if the prick would use it. Balls of fucking steel.

 

[John_W]

23 hours ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

As a taxpayer I wish they had just shot the pratt

 

In which case, the story would have been on the BBC evening news and in the National Newspapers, his family would have been calling for an enquiry and some MP looking for publicity would have been ranting on about how dangerous "BB guns" were and Airsoft would be the nail that was sticking up when the Home Office needed a scapegoat and got their hammer out.

Be careful what you wish for. 

The VCRA started with a statement "the public would like some controls on the sale of replica weapons, particularly to under 18s"...

[ImTriggerHappy]

2 minutes ago, John_W said:

In which case, the story would have been on the BBC evening news and in the National Newspapers, his family would have been calling for an enquiry and some MP looking for publicity would have been ranting on about how dangerous "BB guns" were and Airsoft would be the nail that was sticking up when the Home Office needed a scapegoat and got their hammer out.

Be careful what you wish for. 

The VCRA started with a statement "the public would like some controls on the sale of replica weapons, particularly to under 18s"...

 

To be honest if people are using airsoft replicas to commit crimes and threatening police officers in the street and that leads to more legislation the so be it.

 

Is peoples enjoyment more important than a firearms officers safety? He shouldn't have to decide whether the threat is credible and waste time and jeopardise his safety and that of others. If someone points a weapon at a police officer then bollocks to niceties he has just forfeited his life. 

 

I would rather play with a two tone or even a gun that bears no resemblance to a real gun than have one officer die because he hesitated on whether the gun was real.

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1 minute ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

I would rather play with a two tone or even a gun that bears no resemblance to a real gun than have one officer die because he hesitated on whether the gun was real.

 

Being forced to use two-tone or "unrealistic" guns would completely kill Airsoft for me (and I expect this would be true for the majority of Airsoft players). Also: https://imgur.com/gallery/PBqcmiq

[ImTriggerHappy]

Just now, Ad_ said:

 

Being forced to use two-tone or "unrealistic" guns would completely kill Airsoft for me (and I expect this would be true for the majority of Airsoft players). Also: https://imgur.com/gallery/PBqcmiq

 

Maybe and that would suck but there is no way I can put a Sunday afternoon hobby ahead of the safety of the police. Maybe the fact I have a brother in the force makes me look at things differently but there it is.

 

Maybe a registration and traceability scheme is really the way forward.

[JSwan]

I was watching a programme the other day about a shooting in Luton.... the guy had bought several starter pistols, which were two tone in colour and bored out the barrels, then sprayed the slides black. Shot a guy in the chest and went on a rampage. I don’t think two toning a gun is the way forward. If he hadn’t of sprayed the slide he’d still have had a lethal barrelled weapon capable of discharging a round which was blue in colour 🤷🏻‍♂️

[EDcase]

Two tone doesn't mean anything.

Anyone who threatens others with a gun shaped object should be treated as having a real weapon and taken down if they do not obey Police to drop it.

With no repercussions on the Police officer if its later found to be a replica or toy.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by EDcase

[Ad_]

35 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

Maybe and that would suck but there is no way I can put a Sunday afternoon hobby ahead of the safety of the police. Maybe the fact I have a brother in the force makes me look at things differently but there it is.

 

That's the thing, such restrictions wouldn't do anything to make anyone safer. There's absolutely nothing stopping criminals from disguising their real firearms with bright colours in order to make police hesitate (and to make others dismiss such weapons as toys if spotted). Even "unrealistic" shapes don't help, as that Nerf Glock shows.

 

35 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

Maybe a registration and traceability scheme is really the way forward.

 

A lot of time, effort, and money for absolutely no benefit to anyone. A fake gun doesn't need to be especially "realistic" to be useful enough for criminal purposes, certainly nowhere as realistic as the typical Airsoft gun. It's trivial to make a fake gun that would look "realistic" enough, especially given the appearance of many improvised real firearms that have been confiscated from criminals. Here are some imgur galleries I've come across showing such weapons (there's also a mix of jokes and fakes in there but you get the point):

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/EbcCJPd
https://imgur.com/gallery/uTMwfEa
https://imgur.com/gallery/E1FgS2N
https://imgur.com/gallery/JTNIU7o

 

In the US they introduced laws requiring replicas to have orange tips for "safety", criminals then started painting their real guns with orange tips, some police then got shot due to hesitating after seeing the orange tips and now they're right back to square one. Except that law-abiding people now have a bit less freedom and have to have replicas with orange tips which do nothing to make them any safer because the police still have to treat them exactly like they would a real firearm.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Ad_

[ImTriggerHappy]

2 hours ago, Ad_ said:

 

 

Of course restrictions on ownership would help as if ownership requires registration then people can't sell them through the free ads and if they did and it was used in a crime it would traceable.

 

Comparing our gun control issues to to america doesn't quite work as guns over here are still relatively rare compared to the USA. 

 

Of course people could still modify a real one to look fake but that would be rare as they want them to look real as intimidation is 90% of what they have them for.

 

Nothing would stop the issues completely but if shit like this keeps happening then anything to lessen it is a step forward. The only ones to disagree are those so wrapped up in the toy soldier fantasy that the real world comes a distant second.

[EDcase]

Weapons used in crimes always have their serials ground out so registering only helps the owner prove it is legal.  Doesn't stop illegal ones.

 

The only way illegal guns are monitored is by ballistics.

Edited April 7, 2021 by EDcase

[ImTriggerHappy]

Just now, EDcase said:

Weapons used in crimes always have their serials ground out.

 

The only way illegal guns are monitored is by ballistics.

But people are less likely to sell an airsoft gun improperly if there is a paper trail of ownership.

 

Most guns used in crimes won't be legally obtained.

[EDcase]

4 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

But people are less likely to sell an airsoft gun improperly if there is a paper trail of ownership.

 

Most guns used in crimes won't be legally obtained.

Yeah, I was thinking of real guns as they're the only thing that can really do harm.

A legitimate owner might be temped or coerced into selling their legit firearm for enough money since it won't be traceable back to them.

 

As for airguns/airsoft being used then as I said, they should be treated as real and deal with the consequences.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by EDcase

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48 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

Of course restrictions on ownership would help as if ownership requires registration then people can't sell them through the free ads and if they did and it was used in a crime it would traceable.

 

Most airsoft guns don't have actual serial numbers, and even if they did removal of them would be easy.

 

It wouldn't make any difference if they did though. It's a trivial task for anyone to create something that looks realistic enough to pass as a real firearm for criminal purposes. Especially given how dodgy the appearance is of many real improvised firearms that have been confiscated by police. It could be as simple as a carved block of wood coated in black paint, or a table leg in a black bag, or a gun-shaped piece of 3D-printed plastic (or multiple pieces fit together for an even more realistic design). Could even be papercraft... or a combination of things.

 

In the heat of the moment it's doubtful anyone would take a moment to so closely scrutinise a criminal's weapon while they're being threatened with it.

 

48 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

Comparing our gun control issues to to america doesn't quite work as guns over here are still relatively rare compared to the USA.

 

So it stands to reason that the majority of guns our police are likely to encounter are fake even if they look real... but nevertheless, if someone is being threatened with one they must still treat them as real until they're 100% certain that it's fake, even if it's in an "unrealistic" colour or shape.

 

48 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

Nothing would stop the issues completely but if shit like this keeps happening then anything to lessen it is a step forward. The only ones to disagree are those so wrapped up in the toy soldier fantasy that the real world comes a distant second.

 

It wouldn't make the situation any better though, for the reasons I've already stated.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Ad_

[mbea61]

On 04/04/2021 at 12:06, Super64 said:

There’s any number of reasons why the officer didn’t fire, anything from not having a clear background for over penetration or a miss, to information being passed that it was likely a replica firearm. But that said, from that picture I think he would be totally justified in taking the shot. Although whether the IOPC, press, social media and 5 to 10 years of inquests and court cases would think the same is another matter. Massive credit to the officer though for the bravery and restraint shown.

 

Stuff like this shows the stupidity of the laws around replica firearms in this country. You have to prove a defence in order to buy a black or realistic coloured airsoft gun, but you can walk into any outdoor activity shop and buy a black pellet gun which looks exactly the same. I can just imagine the comments from people seeing this wanting anything that looks like a gun banned, regardless of the fact that the only person who’s life was at risk in this situation was the idiot with the BB gun.  As far as I’m concerned you should be able to buy what ever replica you want and if you’re stupid enough to act like this idiot with it, then so be it. Let Darwin sort everyone out.

I've never understood the fact I can walk into a sporting/shooting dealership and buy a umarex licensed copy 177 co2 pistol or rifle and yet can't buy exactly the same gun that fires a 6mm plastic bb there's been quite alot of incident lately with people pointing airpistol around but it always seems to be airsoft players and ownership of rifs who get the finger pointed at them as for why the officer dint fire 98% of people with a hand gun in street etc are carrying either a pellet gun or a bb gun and police know this as for the others it's mainly inner city gangs or organised criminals and police know how to tell that 2% apart and would deal with them straight away