Ups Holding RIF Parts....

[Spuggy1uk]

I bought a new A&K receiver for my M249 from Evike (USA) a month ago, and according to my tracking app it has been sitting in a UPS warehouse in Castle Donnington for the past two weeks.  It was being 'scanned' daily, but not moving.

 

I emailed UPS to ask what was going on and they told me some paperwork was missing. I emailed Evike, and they quickly sent me copies of all paperwork, which i forwarded to UPS.

 

UPS have now sent me a Firearms Declaration to complete, in which I have declared that the package contains RIF parts only.  Now they have said that due to this declaration I need to submit my UKARA, site and intended fps details.

 

Is this normal, or is UPS just being difficult?

 

My UKARA has expired due to Covid and I'm trying to complete my M249 as a lockdown project so I can 'get back out there'.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

CCing in @GeorgePlaysAirsoft as he has had to fill out the same form - and can explain further. You probably won't have to provide UKARA.

[EDcase]

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[Adolf Hamster]

that's standard UPS procedure, they did it to me for a bloody f2000 hop unit, the form is a pain.

 

you don't have to put a ukara on it for non ukara parts but if you have one it probably won't hurt.

 

kinda sad it takes it 2 days the cross half the planet and 2 weeks to get out of their depot.....

[BigAl]

Twats, unless a complete RIf ( or enough parts to assemble one ) they are simply toy parts, no legislation applies. 

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, Spuggy1uk said:

I bought a new A&K receiver for my M249 from Evike (USA) a month ago, and according to my tracking app it has been sitting in a UPS warehouse in Castle Donnington for the past two weeks.  It was being 'scanned' daily, but not moving.

 

I emailed UPS to ask what was going on and they told me some paperwork was missing. I emailed Evike, and they quickly sent me copies of all paperwork, which i forwarded to UPS.

 

UPS have now sent me a Firearms Declaration to complete, in which I have declared that the package contains RIF parts only.  Now they have said that due to this declaration I need to submit my UKARA, site and intended fps details.

 

Is this normal, or is UPS just being difficult?

 

My UKARA has expired due to Covid and I'm trying to complete my M249 as a lockdown project so I can 'get back out there'.

Did the form as about ‘RIF parts’ or did you declare that as extra info along side the  ‘RIF’ question?

The VCRA doesn’t cover parts, though the action you make using them could be considered manufacturing a RIF / 

modifing an IF to a RIF

(Though they would have an eye out for a whole RIF coming in multiple packages)

 

Put in your last UKARA status & Covid noted, along with the remark that they are parts only and not a RIF

[ak2m4]

UPS do this all the time for my large shipments coming into the UK, fill out their silly form with that makes sense.  Explain about airsoft / RIF parts and thus not subject to any UK customs restriction blah blah.  Also their list of prohibited items does not mention anything about RIF or even Firearm parts: https://www.ups.com/gb/en/help-center/shipping-support/prohibited-items.page

[Tommikka]

23 minutes ago, ak2m4 said:

UPS do this all the time for my large shipments coming into the UK, fill out their silly form with that makes sense.  Explain about airsoft / RIF parts and thus not subject to any UK customs restriction blah blah.  Also their list of prohibited items does not mention anything about RIF or even Firearm parts: https://www.ups.com/gb/en/help-center/shipping-support/prohibited-items.page

It’s not a silly form, it’s an importers declaration - and establishes your legitimacy in importing alongside relevant legislation.

 

Their restricted list is a different subject. Restricted and prohibition lists for carriers relates to what is not permitted to be carried and/or where there are particular controls on carrying them.

It is not about the legislation covering controls such as VCRA defences

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

You don't need to include your UKARA number for parts - though the form does read like it does.

 

If you are not importing something that requires you to demonstrate your defence I'd be minded not to include the UKARA number - of course you can make your own decisions but I'd be (very) mildly concerned that if enough people list UKARA for parts that don't necessitate a UKARA, they may come to expect it.

 

Off the top of my head I answered "no" to every question apart from the question where it was about parts. 

 

Just my 2p.

 

 

[EvilMonkee]

Yeh standard UPS bullshit.  Suck it up, fill in the form and move on.  Not worth arguing with them about it as they won't change.

[ak2m4]

18 hours ago, Tommikka said:

It’s not a silly form, it’s an importers declaration - and establishes your legitimacy in importing alongside relevant legislation.

 

My situation is a little different, my gripe is that I spend literally hours on a commercial invoice declaring the items together with SDS sheets, pictures of every single item, eori, tax codes and a description of what the item is used for.   There's even a section on my courier portal that they say UPS needs in which I have to sign which they then pass onto UPS declaring legitimacy to import.  I needlessly repeat the same information, this just slows everything down.  

 

My guess is there's some legacy UPS procedure still in place where they're waiting for a new system to bridge.  The form is just to cover their ass.

 

"Their restricted list is a different subject. Restricted and prohibition lists for carriers relates to what is not permitted to be carried and/or where there are particular controls on carrying them.

It is not about the legislation covering controls such as VCRA defences"

 

Yes, I don't think anyone is under any illusion that this is not the case.  My concern is that for some couriers their lists are not comprehensive enough - maybe they do this on purpose.

 

 

[Nick G]

UPS really are a steaming pile of doggy do. I've never had a delivery via them thats gone smoothly , even internal UK. For god's sake every other delivery company can provide an hour delivery slot, ups are still on with the 'by end of day' crap. Then it usually turns up a day later !

[Groot]

3 hours ago, Nick G said:

UPS really are a steaming pile of doggy do. I've never had a delivery via them thats gone smoothly , even internal UK. For god's sake every other delivery company can provide an hour delivery slot, ups are still on with the 'by end of day' crap. Then it usually turns up a day later !

 

Not sponsored, I promise. But I would say the best experience I have with couriers, is DPD. They are no more expensive than anything else and never seem to fail me. 

[Nick G]

2 hours ago, Groot said:

 

Not sponsored, I promise. But I would say the best experience I have with couriers, is DPD. They are no more expensive than anything else and never seem to fail me. 

I totally agree, whenever I get a choice I always go with DPD

[EvilMonkee]

Same, DPD are superb

[jsmithski]

Guys, it’s not UPS. I don’t live in UK and my parts, guns and everything else come by UPS or other carriers without any hassle. It’s your silly law that requires license for a toy. UPS just don’t want to get into trouble operating within such a hilarious legislation. Can’t you change it? Vote for those who don’t treat toys like firearms? I do get the two tone requirement (however it’s still nonsense) but licensing? Geez. I hope this will never happen in my land.

[EDcase]

So where do you live? ... Wonderland? 😄

 

We're just thankful we don't live in Aus 😬

That's truly ridiculous legislation

[jsmithski]

33 minutes ago, EDcase said:

So where do you live? ... Wonderland? 😄

 

We're just thankful we don't live in Aus 😬

That's truly ridiculous legislation

Poland. Airsoft here is treated equally to air guns under 17J limit - no registration or anything. For Airsoft gameplay purposes we created our own rules and the upper limit is 3.9J (sniper rifle, 30m MED, non-CQB games), in CQB the limit is 1.14J single fire only and non-CQB full auto rifles limit is 1.9J. No one got ever killed so I’m not sure why few kilometers west-northbound this would be considered a lethal weapon.

[EDcase]

2 hours ago, jsmithski said:

Poland. Airsoft here is treated equally to air guns under 17J limit - no registration or anything. For Airsoft gameplay purposes we created our own rules and the upper limit is 3.9J (sniper rifle, 30m MED, non-CQB games), in CQB the limit is 1.14J single fire only and non-CQB full auto rifles limit is 1.9J. No one got ever killed so I’m not sure why few kilometers west-northbound this would be considered a lethal weapon.

That does sound good. Though I think ultimately its better to have a well regulated sport than people just making up their own rules.

Quite similar to our limits though 3.9J for snipers is a bit high for my taste 🤔

 

In UK the limits are:

2.5J for single shot weapons (30m MED)

DMR's somewhere in between (20m MED at sites I've been to)

1.3J for auto capable weapons (single shot in CQB)

 

 

[Tommikka]

8 hours ago, jsmithski said:

Poland. Airsoft here is treated equally to air guns under 17J limit - no registration or anything. For Airsoft gameplay purposes we created our own rules and the upper limit is 3.9J (sniper rifle, 30m MED, non-CQB games), in CQB the limit is 1.14J single fire only and non-CQB full auto rifles limit is 1.9J. No one got ever killed so I’m not sure why few kilometers west-northbound this would be considered a lethal weapon.

Here in the UK airsoft is treated as airguns.  They are not considered lethal weapons unless they exceed the airgun power limit

They are not toys - they fire projectiles at people, they are for playing a game but are not toys

 

For the game of airsoft there is another power limit, and if the airsoft gun is compliant then it is exempt from other firearms / air gun legislation and falls within the VCRA as to whether it is a realistic or non realistic imitation 

 

 

Somebody did get killed, more have put themselves in a position that they could have been killed, and airsoft guns have been used to threaten people as if they were firearms 

 

There is not an airsoft licence - there is legislation that tries to reduce the ease of obtaining realistic replicas and allows for circumstances where they are justifiable. The UKARA is one scheme where players can show their justifiable use for a realistic replica

 

[jsmithski]

4 hours ago, Tommikka said:

Here in the UK airsoft is treated as airguns.  They are not considered lethal weapons unless they exceed the airgun power limit

They are not toys - they fire projectiles at people, they are for playing a game but are not toys

 

For the game of airsoft there is another power limit, and if the airsoft gun is compliant then it is exempt from other firearms / air gun legislation and falls within the VCRA as to whether it is a realistic or non realistic imitation 

 

 

Somebody did get killed, more have put themselves in a position that they could have been killed, and airsoft guns have been used to threaten people as if they were firearms 

 

There is not an airsoft licence - there is legislation that tries to reduce the ease of obtaining realistic replicas and allows for circumstances where they are justifiable. The UKARA is one scheme where players can show their justifiable use for a realistic replica

 

Thanks for the explanation, still does not make much sense but I do get where did it come from. So you can’t buy a real toy BB gun at a fair? In Poland kids get them for dirt cheap and shoot using yellow horribly cheap bbs. You can still take that for a real gun though from a distance but it’s a plastic toy and probably does not exceed 0.25J. Also, do you have gel ball blasters in the UK? Same idea but it shoot with gel bbs at a very low energy and still looks close to a real gun. And rubber knifes replicas (we use them in Poland to knife kill in games sometimes), are they allowed in the UK? I wonder how far your legislation goes.

 

And how the hell someone got killed with an airsoft gun?? 

[Tommikka]

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, jsmithski said:

 So you can’t buy a real toy BB gun at a fair? In Poland kids get them for dirt cheap and shoot using yellow horribly cheap bbs. You can still take that for a real gun though from a distance but it’s a plastic toy and probably does not exceed 0.25J. 

 

 

We could buy cheap BB guns anywhere before, and there are still places that crop up selling realisticaly coloured ones to children as toys.  They are illegal in a few ways on look (breaching the VCRA with something looking realistic) on legal brightly coloured BB guns sold to underage children illegally or parents legally buying them and giving them to children.

They would normally have moved to brightly coloured rubber dart guns which are legitimate toys. 

 

 

2 hours ago, jsmithski said:

 Also, do you have gel ball blasters in the UK? Same idea but it shoot with gel bbs at a very low energy and still looks close to a real gun.

Similar things have been around for some time and these are cropping up.

Due to the realistic look the law is the same, so legally you need a valid use for them to be sold.

Some retailers are either being ignorant of the law or are blatantly ignoring it, and have even stated on websites that the VCRA does not apply.   It does

2 hours ago, jsmithski said:

 And rubber knifes replicas (we use them in Poland to knife kill in games sometimes), are they allowed in the UK?

They are allowed

2 hours ago, jsmithski said:

 

 

And how the hell someone got killed with an airsoft gun?? 

Not an airsoft gun, but we have had the shooting of an innocent man by armed police, because he had a table leg and an accent a number of years ago.

It was during one of the IRA bombing campaigns in London.  He was drinking in the pub and had a table leg in a carrier bag, after picking it up from a repair.  People called the police thinking he had a sawn off shotgun in a bag, and had a suspicious Irish sounding accent (He actually had a Scottish accent and was drunk)

Armed police attended and challenged him in the street, he thought it was ridiculous and jokingly raised the bag and table leg pointing it as if it was a gun, the armed police shot and he was killed.   This went through the courts for many years until forensic analysis proved the angles matched the police statements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Harry_Stanley

 

 

There have been a number of cases where children with airsoft/BB guns having armed police called out to them.

In one case young teenagers hanging out in the street were seen with a pistol, when the armed response arrived and challenged them the boy with the gun pulled it out of his jeans and pointed it at the police.  The officer hesitated and did not react, he believed it was a real pistol but hesitated at shooting a child.  If this had been a different area the boy would have been shot, or the officer shot by a gang.

 

When I began paintball in the 2000s there was a well known custom builder who produced realistic paintball conversions using airsoft guns.  A few years ago whilst depressed he attempted suicide by cop, starting an armed siege in his flat.   His ex girlfriend intervened and the armed officers held back when he pointed guns at them, allowing him to be arrested safely.

 

On a paintball site the head Marshall blinded a new Marshall that he was 'training' when he dry fired an unloaded gun, the burst of CO2 in his face permanently blinded the Marshall.

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2009/04/30/paintball-shooter-escapes-jail-sentence-921/

 

 

A young child was killed by his brother when they found an airgun, this resulted in a new offence of failing to secure any type of gun from access to children.  Very few are aware of this, and it can apply to airguns, paintball and airsoft guns.  The penalty is a large fine if a child manages to access your guns without permission & supervision.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/5273902.stm

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/650548/air-weapons-a-brief-guide-to-safety.pdf

... and while that was being brought into law another boy was killed due to parents failing to secure an airgun

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/8536969.stm

 

 

In the US riot police killed a bystander when she was shot through the eye into her brain by riot police with a less than lethal paintball gun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Victoria_Snelgrove

 

 

Its also been a fairly common occurrence for people to be shot by the police with airsoft & air guns in the US (Even just for picking one up from the shelf in the shop selling them.

[jsmithski]

OK I get it but those were few cases in a span of a decade. Kitchen knives are more deadly yet still legal. I still think it’s people’s fault, even when you have your UCARA you still can point your replica at a police officer and get killed. Anyway, I understand the premise but can’t agree.

[Tommikka]

39 minutes ago, jsmithski said:

OK I get it but those were few cases in a span of a decade. Kitchen knives are more deadly yet still legal. I still think it’s people’s fault, even when you have your UCARA you still can point your replica at a police officer and get killed. Anyway, I understand the premise but can’t agree.

Actually kitchen knives have legislation controlling their sale as well. Neither kitchen knives nor airsoft RIFs are illegal, they each come with a reasonable restriction on their sale:
 

Knives are for sale to over 18s

Airsoft IFs are for sale to over 18s

Airsodt RIFs are for sale to over 18s with a legitimate use

 

Adults are legally responsible for what they do with them.

 

People are still stupid and don’t conceive that an airsoft gun is not a toy

 

Those cases I listed are just a handful that I can come up with off the top of my head, any death or serious injury that could have easily been avoided is a tragedy.

 

[jsmithski]

54 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

Actually kitchen knives have legislation controlling their sale as well. Neither kitchen knives nor airsoft RIFs are illegal, they each come with a reasonable restriction on their sale:
 

Knives are for sale to over 18s

Airsoft IFs are for sale to over 18s

Airsodt RIFs are for sale to over 18s with a legitimate use

 

Adults are legally responsible for what they do with them.

 

People are still stupid and don’t conceive that an airsoft gun is not a toy

 

Those cases I listed are just a handful that I can come up with off the top of my head, any death or serious injury that could have easily been avoided is a tragedy.

 

Agree, this is really well put.