Rof Binary Triggers....

[Wezz]

Hope all reading this are well. 

So at the weekend just gone , another Sunday full of interesting events through out a day of CQB airsoft. One thing that did catch my attentions was a conversation we had in regards to Binary Triggers. He was unhappy and questioning why the site would not allow someone to run a binary trigger but allow HPA. We explained 1 round per trigger pull. 

What is everyone's view on binary triggers, DSG or extremely fast ROF HPA set ups? When is a RoF too high for a site? Should there be a line drawn as to the max ROF allowed in a site? 

If some sites have these rules or something similar, please say as i haven't come across them before.

 

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

I feel like you've answered your own answer in a sense - ROF limits are king. What good is it quibbling over binary triggers, DSG, HPA etc. if you're not considering the core problem they can introduce?

 

Set a ROF limit, then let people do whatever they want within those limits.

[Badgerlicious]

To me, a binary trigger isn't so much a problem with rate of fire as it is an attempt to skirt around semi only limitations. Granted, there's a bit more control on a binary trigger over full auto, as you still need to do an action for each BB fired, but it seems easy for your reflex to be to double tap the trigger, and fire 4 bbs in no time, effectively being a short burst of full auto. 

[Adolf Hamster]

the problem is that a binary trigger effectively doubles your rate of fire.

 

regardless of wether or not it's a titan'd dsg wanker gun build of an hpa hose, in semi you can only acheive so many presses per second.

 

problem is, these guns can often cycle much much faster than the players ability to pull the trigger meaning the human element is the cap on the effective rate of fire.

 

you put a binary trigger in the mix and you've not only doubled the rate of fire but also made it impossible to fire just 1 round.

 

 

in both the real steel and airsoft world a binary trigger's sole purpose is to creatively skirt rules about fully automatic fire.

[Cromulon1994]

If it sounds like full auto, then it is against the spirit of the rules. In our game based on honour.

And full auto being the full auto of an average hire gun, ie a JG G36 on a 7.4

 

 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

I have no problem with how fast a toy gnu can shoot, as long as the finger on the trigger is keeping it down to a reasonable rate.

 

However, a binary trigger in practice is going to act like a 2 round burst. Once game-on is shouted, nobody is really going to be doing separate pulls and releases: they're going to tap their (no doubt hair) trigger and get 2 shots in quick succession.

 

If you allow 2 round bursts, no problem.  If you don't, then you shouldn't allow binary triggers either.

 

Personally I'm getting a bit more blasé about this.  Tri-shot shotguns exist, and I wouldn't have a problem with someone putting a 2 or 3 round burst or a binary trigger pull-and-release into me, even at point blank.  It's just another 1 or 2 ouchies in a game of ouch.  What matters is a pause between those groups for the target to react, rather than hosing them down speedQBsoft style until they curl up into a ball.

[Skara]

Pussies.

Binary trigger is love ❤️

 

But yeah, it's the person behind the trigger, not the gun. You can still be a wanker with a 13rps rental G36..

[Wo1f]

It’s a wankers tool. Semi is semi, and you can fire virtually any airsoft gun more than quick enough in semi. With a binary trigger you’re firing a minimum of 2 rounds. So can I use a KWA vector 2 round burst? If I can use that why can’t I use a we mp5 with 3 round burst? 
 

you only need one BB to hit someone to ‘kill’ them. If you miss with 50 you’ve wasted 50 and you’re shit. If you hit with all fifty then you’re a cunt. 

[Skara]

 

I'm just leaving this here

[alxndrhll]

It’s the nature of anything that’s remotely competitive, folks want to push for an advantage and generally speaking that doesn’t bother me at all. I’m very much a ‘you do you’ kind of person, and personally feel (not limited to airsoft) that we spend far too much time scrutinising what other people do.
 

With that said, binary triggers are one of the very few things I’m not a huge fan of purely down to the reduction in control the user has. I agree with the general sentiment that the RIF isn’t so much the problem as the person using it, but irrelevant of whether you’re a wanker or not if you have a binary trigger it’s firing 2 shots every time you pull the trigger in semi.
 

I turn up to a game in the knowledge I’m going to get shot at, the difference between getting nailed by a single BB versus a handful is negligible for me and I like to think there is never any malice when folks ‘over shoot’. The point that folks have less control over the quantity of BBs leaving their RIF is the point I get less comfortable.

[Sitting Duck]

That TSG he has been kicking the idea around for yonks

You got 30 teeth to play with...

"You mean 32 as in 16 teeth plus 16 again..."

NO the 16 teeth are actually like a clock face

Eg 7 teeth appear from 12 to 1 to 6

But if you split the face you get half 12 & half 6

So you get 1/2, then 5 then 1/2 again = 6

 

Same as sector - half way is actually

1/2 then 14 them 1/2 again = 15

But they round it up on the teeth and cast 16 actual teeth

(and the space AREA is 14 teeth, though it is a actually 15

as 16 teeth cast, is using 15 in reality teeth tip to tip)

 

ANYWAY - 30 so-called teeth to play with or cast...

 

So the spacing on sector allows for 30 teeth to be cast

on a reg DSG you have 8 teeth and 7 space

on a special DSG you can have 9 and 6 space

(so timings are more critical for tappet)

 

On the TSG you are left with 5 teeth & 5 space

Which is more time pro rata than other sectors to piston teeth

So it is feasible to do but still only leaves a timing of

5 teeth/space to feed/chamber a BB - which is very tiny

Even the 9 tooth DSG has a space of 6 and can be tricky

 

And the TSG would have around 17% less time to feed

(no matter what speed the rof is)

So the issue has always been the tappet cycling

 

The lockdown has obviously given him some time

So I presume he 3d printed a few

Then cast it to make a few prototypes in metal to play with

(likely without 3 COL cams yet, just get it working full auto

Like a crappy G&G DSG in HC05 I expect)

Get those cams sorted at a later date

 

As said the space area for cycling the tappet/feeding

is going to be the biggest issue which I think may prove

beyond the reasonable limit to work OK

Which in that case, the 5 teeth may end up get SS a tooth

So that it is 4 teeth and 6 teeth spacing - which might work better

 

SS the TSG to 4 teeth/6 space places it in the timings of a 9t DSG

With 9 teeth and 6 space to chamber

 

With just 4 teeth to provide power it is going to limit the options

as the power will likely be about 30-33% of springs power

And cylinder volume would be fuck all maybe a 110-140mm barrel tops

 

So power expect 200-250fps tops with spacers

and a bitch to install a m200 with spacers etc...

So it has a limited viability in real terms the general concenus was

 

BUT taking nothing away from Makeii, I admire him even more now

For actually giving it a go and taking his original idea further

Congrats to him, I'm sure it will work - but it will be limited

as the boundaries or limits of an AEG are being stretched to fuck

 

But hey with all this free time, why not give it a go

But firmly believe a QSG is not going appear

as the TSG is really pushing the limits to fuck on present boxes

 

The timings & final power limits means it will be very tricky

to perfect and limit its use in but the smallest barrels

at quite low final FPS (in relation to spring power)

 

 

 

 

 

[Sitting Duck]

Following on to original topic...

 

Binary triggers are one thing...

3rd burst bells n whistles etc... are alright

 

But it is all down to the approach

It isn't called a wanker gun due to the performance

it is coz it is often used by WANKERS being real WANKERS

 

GREAT have a fast ultra snappy gun

but control it, use it wisely that hose other players

Don't rely on spraying anything that moves to compensate for your lack of skill

 

Try not to be a dick, arguing it is on semi

But then spam the fuck out of a binary trigger

Like some highly aroused lesbian bring herself off...

 

BUT IT IS ON SEMI - frigg frigg frigg frigg frigg

Stop being a wanker, or in friggin binary triggers

Stop being a dyke having a wank...

 

Remember wankers & dykes...