private seller UKARA check

[the guru]

so Im selling a gun but want to know how I would go about cheking a UKARA number as a private seller

thanks

[Rogerborg]

Why would you be able to?  It's for retailers, who pay £300+ a year for access to it.

 

Someone will be along in a minute to tell you about a retailer who's kind enough to check for you if you call them up (I can't think why), but you can at least reject buyers by asking for a UKARA number, then checking that it starts with one of the codes from a UKARA skirmish site:

 

http://www.ukara.org.uk/#approved

 

If your buyer says "Uh, XYZ123" then you can rule them out.

 

Personally I'd be more interested in them telling me where they play and providing some sort of evidence of that in the form of postings on a Failbook or forum account, or booking confirmations.  Ideally, you'd check with that site whether they play there, since that's what actually matters.

[proffrink]

There used to be a 'self check' that one could use to check other players too (if they were happy with handing over the applicable personal information), but it was taken down unfortunately.

[BigStew]

I generally ask what's their site and email for confirmation never not had a site reply with in a couple of days. 

[L3wisD]

8 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Someone will be along in a minute to tell you about a retailer who's kind enough to check for you if you call them up

 

Frank at Fire-Support has always been happy to help with UKARA checks for me in the past.

 

It's one option, but you don't have to do it every time. Just use your loaf 

[Compulsive Reload]

15 hours ago, the guru said:

so Im selling a gun but want to know how I would go about cheking a UKARA number as a private seller

thanks

I'm aware the how to check ukara has been answered but...

 

Do you only want to trade to Ukara members specifically? Not everyone has access to ukara, there is other VCRA defenses out there so don't rule them out when selling, ask them to provide a vcra defense.

 

Really bothers me when stuff is ukara only, its not the only defense.

[Jedi_Master]

Personally, I would never accept a JusCos (cosplay) type defence.  Airsoft site membership is good enough without being on UKARA database.

[E21A]

3 hours ago, Compulsive Reload said:

I'm aware the how to check ukara has been answered but...

 

Do you only want to trade to Ukara members specifically? Not everyone has access to ukara, there is other VCRA defenses out there so don't rule them out when selling, ask them to provide a vcra defense.

 

Really bothers me when stuff is ukara only, its not the only defense.

 

Thats true but it’s the most common and widely accepted as the standard. 

 

To be honest if someone is a regular skirmisher then there is no real reason for them to not have UKARA. 

[Compulsive Reload]

Just now, E21A said:

 

Thats true but it’s the most common and widely accepted as the standard. 

 

To be honest if someone is a regular skirmisher then there is no real reason for them to not have UKARA. 

I'm a regular skirmisher at my local site, but they have their own vcra called SWAT PASS, there's a real reason.

 

Not everyone has access to it.

[E21A]

Print off a ukara form and get them to fill in there part of it. 

 

Or visit a different site once a month for 3 months 

[Compulsive Reload]

1 minute ago, E21A said:

Print off a ukara form and get them to fill in there part of it 

They can do that?

[E21A]

If your a regular and can verify you’ve met the criteria yes. From memory you need a signature or a stamp or something on the form from the site 

See here 

 

 

[Compulsive Reload]

Just now, E21A said:

If your a regular and can verify you’ve met the criteria yes. From memory you need a signature or a stamp or something on the form from the site 

Yeah I have my swat card etc. I mentioned ukara to them when I first started and they made it seem as if I can't have it as they have their own defense.

 

Only reason I'd want it as alot of sites don't accept it.

[AshOnSnow]

The records are held at FireSupport. Alternatively, you can also ask for a copy of their registration. If they go to the trouble of forging one, they’re entering a whole new level of illegal purchase.

[E21A]

42 minutes ago, Compulsive Reload said:

Yeah I have my swat card etc. I mentioned ukara to them when I first started and they made it seem as if I can't have it as they have their own defense.

 

Only reason I'd want it as alot of sites don't accept it.

 

Im assuming your a member there and paid a fee? 

 

If so print onto the form and fill out your section and ask them to do their part, I can’t see any site refusing to do so, all you want it for is to buy RIFs and continue playing at their site. 

[ImTriggerHappy]

5 minutes ago, E21A said:

 

Im assuming your a member there and paid a fee? 

 

If so print onto the form and fill out your section and ask them to do their part, I can’t see any site refusing to do so, all you want it for is to buy RIFs and continue playing at their site. 

Not all sites are part of the UKARA scheme.

[L3wisD]

1 hour ago, E21A said:

To be honest if someone is a regular skirmisher then there is no real reason for them to not have UKARA. 

 

Regular skirmisher but haven't had UKARA for the last... Year and a half? Might be longer now.

 

I could get one easily enough, I just don't get around to it. It certainly doesn't hinder the hobby for me.

[E21A]

37 minutes ago, L3wisD said:

 

Regular skirmisher but haven't had UKARA for the last... Year and a half? Might be longer now.

 

I could get one easily enough, I just don't get around to it. It certainly doesn't hinder the hobby for me.

 

I’m sure it doesn’t/won’t hinder you unless you want to buy a RIF from a retailer 

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, AshOnSnow said:

illegal purchase

 

What offence are you imagining would be committed?

 

[AshOnSnow]

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

What offence are you imagining would be committed?

 

I would expect it would amount to fraud - to falsify documentation in order to mislead someone into believing that you are eligible for a specific legal defence from a clause of the VCR Act, and thus since it is the SALE that is the prosecutable act, it is the result of your presentation of counterfeit documents that an illegal transaction took place.

 

Just like if you force someone to kill someone, you’re charged with murder. If you have a big red button you know will blow up a disabled-gay-black-jewish-genius orphanage, but tell someone if they press it they’ll win a week in barbados with Scarlett Johansson, you’ll be done for murder when St. Barnaby’s House of Smiles goes boom. 

[Rogerborg]

16 hours ago, AshOnSnow said:

I would expect it would amount to fraud

 

Hmm, that is a fair point.  I was under the impression that fraud by false representation requires both a gain AND a loss, but it turns out that it's an "or" conjunction.  There's no need for the seller to suffer a loss for the buyer to make a fraudulent gain.

 

Alternatively (I really need to catch up on the statutes), Serious Crime Act 2007 replaced the fuzzy old common low incitement with a fresh new specific offence of encouraging or assisting an offence.

 

So yes, I'm onboard.  While I get an eye twitch about "illegal purchase", I agree that there's plenty that a hooky buyer could be charged with, in the very, very unlikely event that it comes to the attention of anyone who cares.

 

Given that the seller has also committed a specific offence (albeit unwittingly) and has no incentive to shop the shopper, and that we just spotted airgun sellers openly flogging off high energy steel BB RIFs with no more than an ID check, I'd suggest the whole issue of airsoft sales is flying well under the State's radar, where I hope that it stays.

[snuff]

I've been mincing round this and the "other" airsoft forum for years but I've never really enquired--->how do you check someones defence?

I've never had an issue but I was wondering what is the correct way if there is one,I appreciate as a seller it is more important than if you are the buyer.

I know there are thread covering issues and loads of advice but I'd like a definitive answer.Cheers.

[Rogerborg]

18 hours ago, L3wisD said:

Frank at Fire-Support has always been happy to help with UKARA checks for me in the past.

 

Is the answer from yesterday.

 

I know that's a poor answer, but it's what we've got.  Unless someone wants to crack the UKARA database and set that information free (please do not crack the UKARA database and etc.)

 

I'll have to note that UKARA is neither necessary, nor is it necessarily sufficient.  Me, I'd be happy with a Facebook or forum account showing participation in skirmishing and ideally a booking confirmation to show intended future behaviour, since that's what the defence is based on.

[Jedi_Master]

2 hours ago, snuff said:

I know there are thread covering issues and loads of advice but I'd like a definitive answer.

 

Never has been a definitive answer.  Merged with yesterday’s topic.

[snuff]

Cheers Jedi, I was sort of trying to assist a new seller but not telling him directly in case he thought I was trying to circumvent the system,as we are in the middle of a deal.

Personally I go through an intended buyers history on here,you can usually tell IMO,although I will always ask for defence and I am in the position where I can check with my local site.

Is there a reason we can't arrange UKARA info access through this site?we are a recognised airsoft forum.