Two-Tone external upgrades

[Guest]

I have a two tone arp-9, and the front rail is blue. I want to add a longer rail and a suppressor under the rail like a honey badger. If i wanted a new rail, would i be able to paint it blue then put it on my gun?

 

Thanks

[MisterG]

Hi

 

Are you sure you want to paint it blue? 

 

Have you thought about UKARA sorted, then replace it and you would no longer have a two tone gun.

 

Unless of course you are under 18.

 

Cheers

G

[proffrink]

Moved to UK law section.

 

Basically it (the gun) is supposed to be majority high visibility/bright paint (i.e. 51%) and you're meant to keep it that way until you have a valid defence (as making external changes would be considered 'manufacturing' an RIF if you drop below that 51% threshold). Defining the 'valid defence' is the real issue here: Are you confident that you can prove you're a skirmisher? Do you have an entry on the UKARA database or some pictures of you playing or receipts from pre-booking? Lots about that in the UK law subforum, but if you're unsure just play it safe and either:

• Spray blue (or another bright colour) before adding to the gun
• Wait until you have your UKARA database entry sorted out before buying it

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, proffrink said:

Moved to UK law section.

 

Basically it (the gun) is supposed to be majority high visibility/bright paint (i.e. 51%) and you're meant to keep it that way until you have a valid defence (as making external changes would be considered 'manufacturing' an RIF if you drop below that 51% threshold). Defining the 'valid defence' is the real issue here: Are you confident that you can prove you're a skirmisher? Do you have an entry on the UKARA database or some pictures of you playing or receipts from pre-booking? Lots about that in the UK law subforum, but if you're unsure just play it safe and either:

• Spray blue (or another bright colour) before adding to the gun
• Wait until you have your UKARA database entry sorted out before buying it

ok thanks, ill probably paint it blue before i put it on.

[Rogerborg]

OP is 15, no UKARA licen.... I mean, database entry for quite some time.

 

There's no age limit on the defence, and UKARA isn't the only way of adducing that defence, but on balance I do agree that the safest route is to keep it two-tone.

[Gepard]

Yes, you'll want to spay it when it arrives. 

[Duff]

4 minutes ago, Gepard said:

Yes, you'll want to spay it when it arrives. 

 

No don't spay it, let them breed it will save you money in the long run!

[Gepard]

36 minutes ago, Duff said:

 

No don't spay it, let them breed it will save you money in the long run!

 

These dad jokes are getting worse by the day..  

[Duff]

45 minutes ago, Gepard said:

 

These dad jokes are getting worse by the day..  

 

And I don't even have kids!!! 😂

[proffrink]

I can only understand Duff's jokes when they're plastered across an image in big white text.

[Duff]

On 5/7/2018 at 8:48 AM, proffrink said:

I can only understand Duff's jokes when they're plastered across an image in big white text.

 

[Druid799]

Me personally I think the best thing you can add to a two-tone is a combustible material and a match , but that’s just me !😉

[Duff]

BAD ADVICE INCOMING:

 

Meh just put a non two tone one on and go with it. You'll remove the paint eventually so why bother painting it in the first place.

[proffrink]

Because that's manufacturing an RIF yadingus.

[Duff]

2 minutes ago, proffrink said:

Because that's manufacturing an A RIF yadingus.

 

It isn't manufacture though is it. If he cast the rail himself and drilled and CNC'd all the holes then yea, but he bought it and put it on as received. ie; not bright fucking blue.

He isn't painting it, he isn't constructing anything other than to fit it to the RIF, it's just changing a part.

[proffrink]

It is, and I'm genuinely surprised that you don't know this. 'Manufacture' is the verb I use only because that's what's in the VCRA amendment.

 

This is why you're not meant to just buy a 2-tone gun and immediately spray it black - not much of a law if that were allowed now would it?

[Duff]

5 minutes ago, proffrink said:

It is, and I'm genuinely surprised that you don't know this. 'Manufacture' is the verb I use only because that's what's in the VCRA amendment.

 

This is why you're not meant to just buy a 2-tone gun and immediately spray it black - not much of a law if that were allowed now would it?

 

Oh so I shouldn't have bought my first two tone springer and immiedately sprayed it black then? Whoopsie, spank my bottom!

 

The law is stupid but at least we don't have to have orange plastic tips ruining our game of soldiers. Taking a part sold for an intended item and fitting it is NOT manufacture,. I don't care what version of the Oxford English you're using or if it's the Spanish one written by that drunk duck. That's like saying that buying an ACOG and attaching it to a rail is manufacture, it isn't. If he buys a part and it isn't two toned and doesn't require a UKARA number (I have never been asked for a UKARA) then he can put it on his airsoft toy and there should be no grey area about it. This happens when people adamantly say one thing with certainty and it isn't the case, it creates so much grey area.

 

[proffrink]

Correct, you shouldn't have if you didn't have a valid defence.

 

The issue really stems from a lack of definitive case law around the parts of VCRA that're applicable to airsofters. The 'grey area' is only there because a 'valid defence' isn't properly defined in the VCRA. UKARA membership is given as the sole definitive defence, but there are others. Remember, these are 'valid defences' because - by default - it's illegal to buy or manufacture an RIF. You're meant to prove that you're an exception to the rule.

 

What verb would you like to see in the place of 'manufacture' that stops people from just spraying their blue gun black? Because the spirit of VCRA is certainly such that if you're swapping parts at home that's considered manufacture.

 

If I have a factory built where all we do is take CM-16s and put ACOGs on them, what verb do you use then? Is that manufacture? I would argue to all intents an purposes that it probably is, because that's less confusing than granularity going into every way in which something is and isn't manufacture. Paint wearing off probably isn't manufacturing either, so here we see where that hastily added amendment to VCRA is clearly not fit for purpose. I know I can buy every part of an RIF and assemble it at home (now that's clearly manufacture, so how is swapping handguard and stock not when the only thing making it an IF - rather than an RIF - is that very handguard and stock)?

 

However, it is actually the only thing we have that allows us to even buy RIFs in the first place so I'm not sure if brazenly suggesting that someone just 'buys 2-tone and spray black' is the best course of action for the longevity of airsoft. If your problem is with the verbiage in the law then I'd urge you to read it in context.

[Duff]

1 minute ago, proffrink said:

What verb would you like to see in the place of 'manufacture' that stops people from just spraying their blue gun black? Because the spirit of VCRA is certainly such that if you're swapping parts at home that's considered manufacture.

 

It isn't manufacture. Look up what manufacture means. I would use "Modification," and you may say that falls under it and fine, but these two words mean different things.

 

Manufacture is making something from prime components or resources/materials. Modifying is ammending or changing something already manufactured.

 

I put a new outer barrel on my JG M4, basically bought and rebuilt the front end. That isn't manufacture, it's buidling something from components. Construction if you will, even. I also sprayed my JM M4 receiver because it was horrible OD Grey, another crime to add to the rap sheet!?!? None of this is manufacture, the word simply does not mean what you want to to mean.

[proffrink]

I think you need to start lobbying your MP if you feel this strongly about the wording in VCRA.

 

The consensus is that 'manufacture' is almost any process in which an IF turns into an RIF. This has to be taken in the context of what the law is as much as the literal definition of the word. The issue of course is that no judge has ever agreed with any side so neither of us can really be wrong or right on this.

[Duff]

If I really felt strongly about it I wouldn't illegally manufacture the paint scheme on my toy pew pews!

[Tommikka]

Due to the complexities of the english language, irrespective of any dictionary definition legislation comes with its own definitions for keywords

 

However the meaning of ‘manufacture’ does not need to be argued as the VCRA covers both ‘manufacture’ and ‘modify’

 

Repainting or removal of paint would fall within ‘modify’ to the letter of the law, and the purchase of an IF followed by immediate conversion to RIF would in my opinion be an open & shut case in court. 

 

With regard to UKARA, that’s not part of legislation in that the UKARA is an industry scheme that fulfills the legislative requirements

 

This is where the grey area comes in, you could meet the required ‘defence’ and be acting for the purpose of airsoft skirmishing which would then mean you can legitimately modify ..... and that would be subject to a case taking place to legitimise or disprove the grey area 

[proffrink]

BUT IS IT MODIFYING IF I'M ACTUALLY MANUFACTURING IT

[jcheeseright]

Either way, point a and point b make both manufacture and modification an offence. 

 

You bad man @Duff, best start buying soap on a rope now before the rozzers cart you off for a long stretch! 

[Prisce]

20 minutes ago, Duff said:

 

Oh jolly good I do love a bumming.

Again. Another quote from @Duff that I have no problems believing.😁