THE TM MWS thread

[Actimus]

On 18/06/2022 at 10:22, Davegolf said:

The G&P/Modify/DP... TBH they prob all come out the same factory lets be honest

The G&P 'set' that I got in place of the original/DP seems a good fit. All parts match nicely to the TM. However, its giving crazy FPS 376 average with predator gas.

 

Can't say what the original TM nozzle was doing to compare. Does that seem right to anyone? Stock gun, apart from the G&P nozzle & internal gubbins..

[SSPKali]

1 hour ago, Actimus said:

The G&P 'set' that I got in place of the original/DP seems a good fit. All parts match nicely to the TM. However, its giving crazy FPS 376 average with predator gas.

 

Can't say what the original TM nozzle was doing to compare. Does that seem right to anyone? Stock gun, apart from the G&P nozzle & internal gubbins..

Could be lots of things, the vent size in the little rocket valve or the spring strength that holds it open can make a big difference. Either an RATech NPAS or one of the adjustable G&P valves might be the way to adjust it down again.

If you have a spare spring (or the balls!) try cutting one coil off the valve spring and see what that does!

[werkzeug]

11 hours ago, M4ELATR0M said:

Hey guys,

 

I am long time enjoyer of this thread but this my first post - and guess why: I ran into problems with some new parts I installed yesterday.

 

My configuration:

- TM MTR16 (2019)

- TNT 370 mm inner

- PH+ complete Hop Up Unit

- G&P forged Sai bolt carrier (drop in)

- ProWin Evo 50rds mags

 

My problem is that after installing the bolt carrier it seems to scratch the ProWin mags so that it is not reliably closing fully and that leads to malfunction (mostly spitting out the gas at once after some tries).

My guess is the ProWin mags have a taller gas outlet on top.

The orignal 20 rds TM mags are running just fine. Can anyone help / maybe has the same configuration and can tell me where to grind off some material to make the ProWin mags work.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Cheers my fellow MWS/MTR lovers!

I’m using Airtac adapter for Odin Sidewinder with OEM mags, do those non-OEM mags with the adapter though?

 

Mag science is absolutely ridiculous in MWS-land, pmags look gorgeous but aren’t they barely usable? I wonder if there is any one who uses them day-to-day.

[SSPKali]

1 hour ago, werkzeug said:

 

Mag science is absolutely ridiculous in MWS-land, pmags look gorgeous but aren’t they barely usable? I wonder if there is any one who uses them day-to-day.

Yeah, but they are the TM Discord dwellers who have replaced 99% of their  MWS with bits from umpteen different brands as they are <Skylar voice> uPgRaDeS!!!1!1!1! </Skylar voice> and the magazine issues are hardly noticeable against all the other major issues they are having 😂

 

Stick with the OG Marui mags 👍

Edited July 2, 2022 by SSPKali

[MAX DICKER]

On 02/07/2022 at 20:50, SSPKali said:

Stick with the OG Marui mags 👍

 

This.

 

I have half a dozen of the Iron Airsoft Pmags..... if I don't store them fully pressured at a stable ambient temperature then they'll leak all their gas out and I spend a fun Saturday evening dunking them in hot water.

[scar527]

On 02/07/2022 at 15:50, SSPKali said:

Yeah, but they are the TM Discord dwellers who have replaced 99% of their  MWS with bits from umpteen different brands as they are <Skylar voice> uPgRaDeS!!!1!1!1! </Skylar voice> and the magazine issues are hardly noticeable against all the other major issues they are having 😂

 

Stick with the OG Marui mags 👍

For the love of Baby Jesus, we just need to pin this at the top of each page.

 

Keep the gun as stock as possible with exception to the nozzle return spring. Heavy BBs? Change the nub. Need more FPS? Longer barrel or NPAS. Mags? I've got four that I bought with mine and they just keep running and running and running. I've got over 10K rounds at this point through mine, I've replaced the stock bucking but only because I shot it out. Which is DAMN hard to do I might add.

 

This gun sees the most use of my collection because it just works, and its accuracy gives my SRS and Tanaka M40 a run for its money. It will never beat the SRS, but it is actually far more consistent than the M40 on green gas (Normally run on HPA). Don't believe me? Watch my videos:

 

 

 

 

[Davegolf]

@SSPKali skylar PSML!!

@scar527 well done your trigger box is now run in!

Strip it, clean it, deburr and smooth everything, oil it up and you’ll have a whole other level of trigger time enjoyment.

Can you say wall/break/reset 😁

[scar527]

4 hours ago, Davegolf said:

@SSPKali skylar PSML!!

@scar527 well done your trigger box is now run in!

Strip it, clean it, deburr and smooth everything, oil it up and you’ll have a whole other level of trigger time enjoyment.

Can you say wall/break/reset 😁

I'll be honest I'm terrified to take that thing apart...It runs smooth enough for me though.

[M4ELATR0M]

11 hours ago, scar527 said:

For the love of Baby Jesus, we just need to pin this at the top of each page.

 

Keep the gun as stock as possible with exception to the nozzle return spring. Heavy BBs? Change the nub. Need more FPS? Longer barrel or NPAS. Mags? I've got four that I bought with mine and they just keep running and running and running. I've got over 10K rounds at this point through mine, I've replaced the stock bucking but only because I shot it out. Which is DAMN hard to do I might add.

 

This gun sees the most use of my collection because it just works, and its accuracy gives my SRS and Tanaka M40 a run for its money. It will never beat the SRS, but it is actually far more consistent than the M40 on green gas (Normally run on HPA). Don't believe me? Watch my videos:

 

 

 

 

May I humbly ask: Why have a forum this size only to stick to statements like "keep the gun as stock as possible"? - Isn't all this to exchange experience and help each make MWS-dreams come true?

From what I read through 250 pages of MWS-glory-forum-posts a vast majority of people here are fitting theirs with everythibg they can find on the aftermarket.

 

I want to run the ProWin mags as they are superior in design, performance and handling with a G&P bolt carrier which, again, is superior in every aspect. - My question therefor was if anyone can help with the combination as the carrier seems to hang up on a part of the mag.

So if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated- if not, that's alright, gonna figure it out on my own then. "Keep the gun stock" is not an answer to my question nor does it help.

 

Thanks.

[Davegolf]

"ProWin mags as they are superior in design, performance and handling with a G&P bolt carrier which, again, is superior in every aspect. - My question therefor was if anyone can help with the combination as the carrier seems to hang up on a part of the mag."

 

Sorry couldnt help myself - contradiction right there.

 

Most people are only bolting stuff on because they want to be different or they need a replacement part and they gave someting else a try.

 

There are some good aftermarket parts, but as you have found they inveitibl always need fettling to make work correctly, they are not true drop in.

So when it comes down to it next to no aftermarket parts give actual perfromance gains, just vanity points.

[demandt]

5 hours ago, M4ELATR0M said:

May I humbly ask: Why have a forum this size only to stick to statements like "keep the gun as stock as possible"? - Isn't all this to exchange experience and help each make MWS-dreams come true?

From what I read through 250 pages of MWS-glory-forum-posts a vast majority of people here are fitting theirs with everythibg they can find on the aftermarket.

 

I want to run the ProWin mags as they are superior in design, performance and handling with a G&P bolt carrier which, again, is superior in every aspect. - My question therefor was if anyone can help with the combination as the carrier seems to hang up on a part of the mag.

So if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated- if not, that's alright, gonna figure it out on my own then. "Keep the gun stock" is not an answer to my question nor does it help.

 

Thanks.

 

I'm genuinely curious. Can you elaborate why ProWin mags are superior? I've never heard this before. Also, with respect to the G&P carrier, why is this superior? 

[scar527]

5 hours ago, M4ELATR0M said:

May I humbly ask: Why have a forum this size only to stick to statements like "keep the gun as stock as possible"? - Isn't all this to exchange experience and help each make MWS-dreams come true?

From what I read through 250 pages of MWS-glory-forum-posts a vast majority of people here are fitting theirs with everythibg they can find on the aftermarket.

 

I want to run the ProWin mags as they are superior in design, performance and handling with a G&P bolt carrier which, again, is superior in every aspect. - My question therefor was if anyone can help with the combination as the carrier seems to hang up on a part of the mag.

So if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated- if not, that's alright, gonna figure it out on my own then. "Keep the gun stock" is not an answer to my question nor does it help.

 

Thanks.

 

So we are referring to the internals of the gun. For the externals, do whatever your heart desires, that is one reason for so many pages.

 

Most of the issues are caused by mixing and matching parts. QC is something TM has down pat, and when you mix that with drivetrain components that are not to the correct spec, you have issues. I have never run ProWIn Mags, but if you are having issues with them running with your aftermarket bolt carrier, I have a hard time agreeing that it is superior.

 

My stock bolt carrier and mags run like a champ and have for thousands of rounds. The only issues I ever ran into involved running an aftermarket light weight bolt...which was remedied by going back to the original. From near 0 degrees C to over 30 degress C, this thing has run. Sure, slower at colder temps but better than any gasser should and anything above...It just runs.

[M4ELATR0M]

Answering as many as I can. Let's go.

Pros of the Mags:

The ProWin EVO mags, hold 50 rds instead of 20 rds (MTR16) mags.

They hold more and stronger gas than TM OEM mags without any modification.

They are noticeably lighter compared to even the short 20 rds MTR16 mags.

The gas-intake is on the back instead of the bottom of the mag which let's you reload faster in the heat of battle since you can simply let them fall instead of having to immediately stow them away. - Granted, this is not necessary and I rarely had to do it so far but at least I have less worries when I do that.

 

Pros of the G&P bolt carrier:

It is noticeably lighter than the OEM one which let's the carrier travel faster.

It is reinforced in all the places where it should be i.e. the hammer assist is steel and does not deform over time. The stock one already deformed after only firing the first couple of hundred shots. - And it is continually deforming which will inevitably lead to a serious malfunction at some point in the future. Bolt catch assist? - Same thing, made out of steel instead of aluminium.

The nozzle assembly's performance is more suited to fit international energy limits. Mine shoots consistent at 1.4 joules with the nozzle G&P ship their bolt carriers with compared to 0.98 joules with the OEM setup using the same bbs and the same gas.

The carrier weight is fitted with rollers instead of being flat. This not only allows for a faster cycle but also for a more stable movement of the whole bolt carrier.

The G&P nozzle is also fitted with harder springs all around. - Including but not limited to the nozzle return spring that loves to snap and makes for a sluggish bolt travel.

 

The problem I described only occured with combining these two things. The bolt itself is working like a mad trailblazing rallye car in comparison to a stock road legal car. The mags themselves are a blessing all around.

I hoped for other owners already having the same combo installed and being able to tell me where to file/dremel/grind some material to let thise parts do their magic. Sadly this - so far - seems to not be the case.

But in all honesty: I cannot imagine that the majority of people in this forum are just and only slamming cosmetic pieces onto theirs to look all shiny flashy bling bling and call it a day after that. At least I have had high hopes for help. Will post some photos and - if I manage to pull it off - I am going to let you guys know first.

 

Cheers.

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by M4ELATR0M

[Davegolf]

Not sure why you compare 50rd to 20rd, stock mags are 35rd. But hey 🤷🏻‍♂️
The real test is how many shots can you get from one gas fill?

Aye the stock bolt deforms on the hammer reset, but only so far, it work hardens. In all honesty TM could have put a steel chip there.

Non the less the stock bolt works perfectly for 10s of thousands of rounds.

 

I do like a lighter bolt, it has many benefits.

But the rollers on the G&P are unnecessary as the bolt centrally locates to the buffer part ‘A’.

And with the buffer spring/tube/assembly lightly coated with Moly grease it works very slickly.

 

RE your problem; using the stock TM mag as a pattern, line the mag catch detent up with the ProWin mag, and look for discrepancies in the height of the upper plate, feed lips and gas route.

You will most likely have to file/sand some shit down.

[M4ELATR0M]

7 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Not sure why you compare 50rd to 20rd, stock mags are 35rd. But hey 🤷🏻‍♂️
The real test is how many shots can you get from one gas fill?

Aye the stock bolt deforms on the hammer reset, but only so far, it work hardens. In all honesty TM could have put a steel chip there.

Non the less the stock bolt works perfectly for 10s of thousands of rounds.

 

I do like a lighter bolt, it has many benefits.

But the rollers on the G&P are unnecessary as the bolt centrally locates to the buffer part ‘A’.

And with the buffer spring/tube/assembly lightly coated with Moly grease it works very slickly.

 

RE your problem; using the stock TM mag as a pattern, line the mag catch detent up with the ProWin mag, and look for discrepancies in the height of the upper plate, feed lips and gas route.

You will most likely have to file/sand some shit down.

Thanks for actually answering to the origimal question. That's what I assumed. Only glaring discrepancy I could find is the gasket on the ProWin being a tad bit taller. This is the place I'll start.

 

Btw and fyi: The OEM MTR16 mags are 20 rds not 35. But even comparing Stanag OEM TM mags it is 15 rounds per mag more with lesser weight, more pooooweeer and so on.

 

P.s.: If I was a ckever man I would simply buy G&P pmags which should fit like a glove. But I am not clever I am enthusiastic ^^.

[Davegolf]

G&P mags are the only ones I’m aware of that I haven’t tried/tested.

 

Once again they prob all come from the same factory anyway!!

 

Be very weary of gas routes that are too tall, they will press up against the nozzle are really mess shit up.

[M4ELATR0M]

11 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

G&P mags are the only ones I’m aware of that I haven’t tried/tested.

 

Once again they prob all come from the same factory anyway!!

 

Be very weary of gas routes that are too tall, they will press up against the nozzle are really mess shit up.

That's what I was thinking, the gas gasket or gas router will most likely be causing my issue. - I have many tools at my disposal but not a single one to work on rubber in a remotly close to professional manner... so having had someone already cut down the gasket the right way or grind down the nozzle to fit could have told me what he did instead of me having to massacre an otherwise perfectly fine gasket tonight :0).

 

Thanks @Davegolf for not telling me to drink water when I really want a gin 'n tonic.

[Davegolf]

It’s rum, always rum 😂

[M4ELATR0M]

On 02/07/2022 at 21:50, SSPKali said:

Yeah, but they are the TM Discord dwellers who have replaced 99% of their  MWS with bits from umpteen different brands as they are <Skylar voice> uPgRaDeS!!!1!1!1! </Skylar voice> and the magazine issues are hardly noticeable against all the other major issues they are having 😂

 

Stick with the OG Marui mags 👍

Who the bloody hell is skylar by the way?

[SSPKali]

Skylar is the alter-ego of Luke / Negative Airsoft 😂

[M4ELATR0M]

That is one hell of a voice :0).

 

Concerning the ProWin mag + G&P bolt carrier situation:

tried cutting down the gasket as this seems to be the reason after inspecting the height in comparison with the OEM gasket.

Not a good idea without a proper rubber cutting knife. My cutter did not cut the material clean and I left it hardly touched after seeing that it wasn't gonna to the trick. Three different nozzle housings are on their way to me atm so I'm gonna report back if any of them did the trick.

Attached are some photos of the parts for informational and entertaining purposes.

Edited July 6, 2022 by M4ELATR0M

[Davegolf]

The G&P nozzle doesnt lok like it in the best of health!

 

Thinks like the hop unit on the MWS really dont need changing - just sayin for other potential viewers.

[M4ELATR0M]

The one I think you are refenrencing to is the OEM one ;).

 

Silver = TM stock (bruised, scratched and hammer assist literally hammering itself)

Gold = G&P (not even the colour/finish is scratched)

 

Also: my stock hop-up unit was all wobbly and only held together with one O-ring. It is forced shut by the barrel adapter but it didn't seem good enough to me.

Edited July 6, 2022 by M4ELATR0M
Addition + photo

[Davegolf]

No im looking at the plastic nozzle where it loads the BB - front of the gold G&P

[M4ELATR0M]

18 hours ago, Davegolf said:

No im looking at the plastic nozzle where it loads the BB - front of the gold G&P

Checked it, must have been either bad lighting or dirt.