JasonFPS Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Not about me, but ive always wondered as i know people who have asked and thought about it, Say the person didnt have there License and brought a gun second hand from someone and went to a skirmish or weekend event with it, would there be any backlash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Moderator Jedi_Master Posted November 26, 2017 Head Moderator Share Posted November 26, 2017 First, there is no airsoft license. To buy an imitation firearm (IF), two tone gun, you must be over 18 years old. To buy a realistic gun (RIF) you must be over 18 and have a valid defence, for example current airsoft site membership. Being on the UKARA database just makes it easier for a retailer or seller to check your defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 2 hours ago, JasonFPS said: Not about me, but ive always wondered as i know people who have asked and thought about it, Say the person didnt have there License and brought a gun second hand from someone and went to a skirmish or weekend event with it, would there be any backlash? Yeah, we know its about someone else You would be arrested... JoKe UKARA is just a database of people who have been registered as airsoft players by a game site or one of the other 'defences'. To answer your question directly: As long as you are over 18 you can own a RIF and use it at games without any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted November 26, 2017 Moderators Share Posted November 26, 2017 3 hours ago, JasonFPS said: Not about me, but ive always wondered as i know people who have asked and thought about it, Say the person didnt have there License and brought a gun second hand from someone and went to a skirmish or weekend event with it, would there be any backlash? None at all, tell your "friend" to go & play, as long as he doesn't act like a dick, transports them to a site sensibly & doesn't let them be seen in public, he'll never be asked whether he is entitled to have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Over 18 it’s legal for him to buy a RIF Its up to the seller to ensure the buyer is making the purchase for a valid reason - taking it to play at skirmishes on valid sites with public liability insurance is a valid use. UKARA is just one way of establishing that to protect the seller If that’s what he’s doing then there is no comeback on the seller Acting like a dick, transporting a real looking gun in full sight in public etc will fall under other legislation, any comeback on being a dick will happen whether the person has UKARA, another valid defence or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted November 26, 2017 Moderators Share Posted November 26, 2017 Obviously 37 minutes ago, Tommikka said: any comeback on being a dick will happen whether the person has UKARA, another valid defence or not Obviously, but it sounds like the OP's "friend" may already have got his hands on a rif, & may be concerned that he'll be found out somehow for obtaining one without having a suitable defence. I don't have an issue with that, irrespective of the law, we are all ambassadors for the game, I'd much rather his "friend", & any other new player does nowt to put it (& us ) in a poor light in the eyes of the authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Gepard Posted November 26, 2017 Supporters Share Posted November 26, 2017 If you're not waving it about in public like a dick and are sensible when traveling to and from a game I don't see why any issues should arise. Then again if an issue does arise and you don't have a valid defense then the consequences of not following the system are on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimozine Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Gepard said: If you're not waving it about in public like a dick was wondering how you wave your dick about in public? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted November 26, 2017 Supporters Share Posted November 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, mimozine said: was wondering how you wave your dick about in public? Kilts help. The transaction has no consequences for the buyer (as long as they're 18+). It's entirely on the seller. However, if anyone is ever prosecuted and convicted for selling an airsoft RIF, I'll eat a bottle of BBs. Not necessarily in one sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 16 hours ago, mimozine said: was wondering how you wave your dick about in public? With ease if blessed like me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 18 hours ago, Gepard said: .....if an issue does arise and you don't have a valid defense then the consequences of not following the system are on you. Actually the VCRA is only concerned with the actual sale (or to be pedantic - manufacture as well) so the VCRA consequence (big £ fine) would be with the seller, and the seller would need to show they were reasonably satisfied with the purchasers ‘VCRA defence’ Other consequences of being a dick would be with the dick whether they had a VCRA Defence or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warlord Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 16 hours ago, Rogerborg said: Kilts help. The transaction has no consequences for the buyer (as long as they're 18+). It's entirely on the seller. However, if anyone is ever prosecuted and convicted for selling an airsoft RIF, I'll eat a bottle of BBs. Not necessarily in one sitting. Any idea on what FPS and ROF you're aiming for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted November 27, 2017 Supporters Share Posted November 27, 2017 56 minutes ago, warlord said: Any idea on what FPS and ROF you're aiming for? Dick waving would be more about RPM. 59 minutes ago, Tommikka said: the seller would need to show they were reasonably satisfied with the purchasers ‘VCRA defence’ On a strict reading, the seller's belief is not relevant. The defence is factual. If sold for an allowed purpose, they have a defence. If not, they don't. UKARA (for example) is simply a best case guess that the past will predict the future. Since the reality is that a seller can't predict what the buyer will do with the RIF, then they're almost always taking a gamble. The exception might be if you were to sell to someone actually at a skirmish - or a museum, theatre, or other allowed defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steakandpotato Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 So as someone who's first airsoft gun was bought without a UKARA (off a friend) I'll be giving you my (possibly wrong. I'm not gospel) ideas on it and my opinion. As far as I'm aware, it isn't illegal to own a RIF without a UKARA. UKARA is just a way for people to check that, effectively, you're not a knob that's going to hold up a store with a toy gun. I bought my RIF off a friend, he had UKARA, I did not, and I haven't run into any problems with any site. That being said, if I could go back in time, I would wait till I had my UKARA. As much as people like to say a UKARA only really protects the seller, it also protects you. Picture yourself as a bobby and imagine you've stopped someone who's got a RIF in their boot. They do not have any UKARA and all they say is 'I'm going to an airsoft game'. Now imagine the same scenario, but 'I'm going to an airsoft game, and here is my UKARA number to prove I'm a regular player'. Gut instinct, who are you going to trust first? For me, it's the person with the UKARA. To summarise: NO, you don't need a UKARA. YES, I recommend you get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted January 16, 2018 Supporters Share Posted January 16, 2018 The risk of this happening in the window between starting airsoft and getting a UKARA number are so small that if it bothers you, why are you participating in a sport where hard plastic balls get shot at your face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted January 16, 2018 Moderators Share Posted January 16, 2018 23 hours ago, steakandpotato said: Picture yourself as a bobby and imagine you've stopped someone who's got a RIF in their boot. Now imagine the same scenario, but 'I'm going to an airsoft game, and here is my UKARA number to prove I'm a regular player'. Gut instinct, who are you going to trust first? For me, it's the person with the UKARA. Most plod know less about ukara than they do about airsoft in general, if your unlucky enough to have one nosing around in your boot its 'cos you've done something to get his attention or the vehicles reg is flagged as being associated with a "person of interest". Nobody really cares whether someone has a defence to own an airsoft rif, not when you have loopholes such as "historical ownership" or "gifted ownership", either of which anybody could claim, even u-18s, the only anybody cares is when a rif is used in a criminal way, ie brandished in public or used in a threatening manner to commit crime, & that's what we as sellers need to cover our arses about, if a potential buyer has criminal intent or is a raving div. as for sites, they don't give a flying f()ck when you turn up as a new guy walk on with an arsenal of rifs, they just want to see the colour of your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted January 16, 2018 Supporters Share Posted January 16, 2018 50 minutes ago, Tackle said: or the vehicles reg is flagged as being associated with a "person of interest". Veering off topic, the PNC doesn't get updated with DVLA changes of ownership or vehicle registration marks. If you buy a car from a wrong 'un, you can expect to get tugged unless and until you get the marker taken off. Conversely, if you get a S59 / S126 vehicle asbo warning, you can put a personal plate on the vehicle and Dibble will be none the wiser. I mention this to illustrate that for all the talk of "intelligence led" policing, it's a hidebound profession that knows what it knows, and rejects change harder than a defective fruit machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 15/01/2018 at 0:31 PM, steakandpotato said: As far as I'm aware, it isn't illegal to own a RIF without a UKARA. UKARA is just a way for people to check that, effectively, you're not a knob that's going to hold up a store with a toy gun. Actually the UKARA wouldn’t check that a person had no intention to do something like armed robbery at all, as a patient criminal could easily decide to play 3 games and get registered, only to go and alleviate the local post office of its stamps. UKARA only shows you’ve got a previous penchant for playing with toy guns at a fixed location three times in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted January 16, 2018 Supporters Share Posted January 16, 2018 The impatient criminal could obtain a two tone and shoplift a rattle can of black paint from Poundland. Of course it would be illegal for them to modify the two tone into a RIF without a defence, so that'll never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted January 16, 2018 Moderators Share Posted January 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Sako said: Actually the UKARA wouldn’t check that a person had no intention to do something like armed robbery at all, as a patient criminal could easily decide to play 3 games and get registered, only to go and alleviate the local post office of its stamps. UKARA only shows you’ve got a previous penchant for playing with toy guns at a fixed location three times in a row. Or Maybe they'll just buy a real steel lethal firearm from fellow committed criminals, which in some cases might be cheaper too lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 9 hours ago, Tackle said: Or Maybe they'll just buy a real steel lethal firearm from fellow committed criminals, which in some cases might be cheaper too lol It will need to be a two tone though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 The VCRA is of course not an addition to firearms legislation, but an anti chav, idiot and child / police accident law Anti chav for those who were hanging around the streets with toy guns stuff in their boxers, getting armed police responses and being stupid enough to pull it out and point at armed response Idiot for those who think its ok and it’s a toy so they can carry it around in public Similar to the local vodka bar owner who slept in his bar on New Year’s Eve and was reported by the public in the morning putting an ak47 in his car. (He wasn’t entirely the idiot as it was a novelty inflatable ak47, but a passer by made the call) Protection for kids who are just going to play with toy guns. I know kids who have been spoken to by local hobbies about playing in the street with toy guns, but it doesn’t take much for a proper response to happen Kids aren’t going to think of the risk and many parents are too stupid to be allowed kids (A bit off topic but I once watched two parents in an army surplus shop being told the relevant laws about knives, what penknives are good for different uses etc They described the use as for a kid who might join the scouts but for general whittling and cutting up sticks as a first knife. They didn’t leave with a basic penknife or Swiss army knife as the shop recommended, but a big survival/Combat knife RIFs for airsoft, filmwork, re-enactment etc were deemed not in need of major controls and licencing, but something to reduce open sale. Under legislation no system was required, but the industry produced the UKARA process as their protection and it gives a ‘reliable’ justification at customs rather than individuals chancing it on customs accepting their reasons. In the early days of VCRA i managed to convince customs without UKARA and my statement about Paintball events, other individuals and at least one retailer had a lot of Paintball imports destroyed in that year Filmwork was used prior to VCRA by a dodgy dealer who made up excuses to not validate his work ‘because it was for James Bond and they keep everything secret’. He was dealing in genuine underground firearms so had plenty of offences but his ‘front’ was a very easy cover So the ‘gun’ industry for films & tv tightened themselves up as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted January 17, 2018 Moderators Share Posted January 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Tommikka said: Protection for kids who are just going to play with toy guns. I know kids who have been spoken to by local hobbies about playing in the street with toy guns. How things have changed, when I was about 8 (42 years ago), me an the rest of the kids were always running round the estate with toy guns, thing is they were very realistic & all black, I remember owning a full size mp40 (no rear stock & the mag was fixed in place), & I remember someone having an SLR, & some AK's floating about, as well as a plethora of pistols......... AND NO ONE GAVE US A SECOND LOOK ! Better times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 On 17/01/2018 at 12:32, Tackle said: How things have changed, when I was about 8 (42 years ago), me an the rest of the kids were always running round the estate with toy guns, thing is they were very realistic & all black, I remember owning a full size mp40 (no rear stock & the mag was fixed in place), & I remember someone having an SLR, & some AK's floating about, as well as a plethora of pistols......... AND NO ONE GAVE US A SECOND LOOK ! Better times Goes to show that times don’t always change for the better, being a child in the 80’s afforded me and my friends so much freedom and fun compared to what the current bubble wrapped Xbox generations now have... I remember walking out in the countryside without any second glances while carrying my air rifle at 12 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sako said: Goes to show that times don’t always change for the better, being a child in the 80’s afforded me and my friends so much freedom and fun compared to what the current bubble wrapped Xbox generations now have... I remember walking out in the countryside without any second glances while carrying my or rifle at 12 years old. I’m quite happy that the kids today aren’t doing what i did at 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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