HOP, whats good and whats not?

[Shaddow]

Looking to get a new hop unit for my ARES AM-013 (Honey Badger).

I know it is possible to get a bit more distance and good accuracy from a good hop unit.

 

Any hop units that can be recommended for the above? (I assume most standard AEG M4 units will fit/work)

 

Thanks

[Monty]

R-hop and flat hops are generally the go to solution for long range shooting, as well as a good quality barrel (such as PDI).

[Shaddow]

Thanks.

From my understanding though, R-Hop is a DIY modification.

My AEG currently has the stock hop unit and already comes stock with a 6.03 TBB. I don't see much reason to upgrade the barrel, but would potentially look at upgrading the complete hop unit. (Or would it be best to just replace the Hop rubber with something a little harder?)

I run 0.25's through it.

 

Thanks

[Samurai]

If you want accuracy then the best upgrade is to use at least 0.30g good quality BBs.

After you cleaned everything with alcohol.

I don't know about the amoeba but in normal M4s the hopup units can move back and forth so a rubber patch between the body and the hopup unit can greatly improve accuracy too.

 

If you want range then use a Maple leaf bucking with a concave nub and heavy BBs or you can try your luck with R or flat hops.

[Shaddow]

Thanks.

Will look at getting heavier bb's, but 0.25 are ideal as they are the heaviest my local site sells. Otherwise I get raped with high postage costs when ordering a few Kg of plastic balls!

 

Any recommendation for bucking rating? 60°? 80°?

[Monty]

If you want accuracy then the best upgrade is to use at least 0.30g good quality BBs.

After you cleaned everything with alcohol.

I don't know about the amoeba but in normal M4s the hopup units can move back and forth so a rubber patch between the body and the hopup unit can greatly improve accuracy too.

 

If you want range then use a Maple leaf bucking with a concave nub and heavy BBs or you can try your luck with R or flat hops.

 

Heavy BB's are a must too.

 

Prowin hop up units sit very solidly, no wobble whatsoever. I'd recommend electrical taping the barrel + hop up unit to ensure a good air seal, the dental floss mod also works well too.

 

 

Thanks.

Will look at getting heavier bb's, but 0.25 are ideal as they are the heaviest my local site sells. Otherwise I get raped with high postage costs when ordering a few Kg of plastic balls!

 

Any recommendation for bucking rating? 60°? 80°?

 

Where do you live?? Postage should be cheap, even ordering from Poland the postage is very cheap for BB's.

 

For the bucking rating, it depends what your gun's shooting at. Under 400 is 60, above 400 is 80 I think.

[Shaddow]

Recommended brand for .30's ?

Ill have a look at prowin for a hop unit and a uprated bucking.

Chrono'd on Sunday at 320fps on 0.2's using a guarder SP100 spring. Just waiting for an uprated spring guide to turn up from other side of the world. Damn Ares spring guides aren't standard.

[Monty]

I use Blasters / Devil Blasters, never had any jams and are always consistent.

[Shaddow]

Any opinions on the madbull ultimate Hop? Know it was mentioned in another post regarding dropping bb's when changing mags.

Not overly fussed at the loss of 3bb's every time, just thought its an additional win if the madbull is on par with prowin.

[Lozart]

Any opinions on the madbull ultimate Hop? Know it was mentioned in another post regarding dropping bb's when changing mags.

Not overly fussed at the loss of 3bb's every time, just thought its an additional win if the madbull is on par with prowin.

 

Everything I've seen regarding one against the other is that the Prowin is better than the Madbull.

[Hef Legend]

SHS clone hop is just as good AK2M4 usually stock then, also the bucking that comes free isn't bad for flat hopping

[BrightCandle]

There are two potential issues with any hop setup and its important to understand which you have in order to best advise as to what you need to do about it. Is the issue that you can't get the BB to hop effectively or overhop? If so then softer hob rubber can help (Lauded Prometheus Purple) as can a replacement hop unit or an R hop patch. However if the issue is one of consistency and the BBs are not all getting similar hop and the vertical climb differs then the issue might be in the hop arm itself or also the rubber/patch/nub or potentially the barrel.

 

Other potential issues you can have is the amount of hop drifting over time, that is definitely an issue with the hop unit.

So lets start by explaining precisely what the issue is?

[Shaddow]

I would say at the moment, I am looking for consistency and possibly a bit more range if it can be found from the hop.

It also seem very sensitive to adjustment. Adjusting my hop marginally (around 1mm of travel on the adjustment wheel) will take the BB from going fairly straight to a very upward flight path. Again similar in the opposite direction.

I tried to tune in more consistency at around 50m, but the spread was quite wide. (This was not helped by a rather strong breeze, so might have to re-adjust on a calmer day)

 

So in summary:

New hop to

1) Increase grouping / accuracy / consistency
2) Increase range

[Hef Legend]

I would say at the moment, I am looking for consistency and possibly a bit more range if it can be found from the hop.

It also seem very sensitive to adjustment. Adjusting my hop marginally (around 1mm of travel on the adjustment wheel) will take the BB from going fairly straight to a very upward flight path. Again similar in the opposite direction.

I tried to tune in more consistency at around 50m, but the spread was quite wide. (This was not helped by a rather strong breeze, so might have to re-adjust on a calmer day)

 

So in summary:

New hop to

1) Increase grouping / accuracy / consistency

2) Increase range

 

Accuracy/range requires a decent hop setup, ammo and a barrel with good inner bore quality. Consistency as also reliant on getting a good consistent airseal between all the parts, barrel, bucking nozzle etc.

 

ZCI barrels are great budget barrels and the internal finish is great for the price. Get a prommy purple and flat hop it (101 guides around), use a flat nub like firely/Prommy. From there you'll want to teflon tape the barrel and hop to ensure a good seal, make sure the hop arms has no side to side play, thing strips of a cut up beer can work well as shims. Then assemble and test the gun on a chrono to see how the fps varies between shots.

 

From there just keep checking, make sure everything lines up, depending on your FPS try to use high quality .3's or higher. You may do all this and find the consistency issues are in the gearbox.

[GiantKiwi]

Prowin Hop chamber require fettling in most guns, and rarely work with anything made by Ares reliably.

 

BB weight - use the heaviest that the hop unit can lift to a flat trajectory, in the case of Ares Amoeba's stock hop chamber, you'll be damn lucky if it can consistently lift 0.25s let alone 0.3s.

 

(below is borrowed from elsewhere - but is generally relatively correct)

 

• 280-300FPS: No heavier than .20g; however if your hop up is better than average, shoot for .23g.
• 300-350FPS: .25g if your hop up can handle it is a good way to go. .20g still works well here and is appropriate, but try a little heavier like .23g or .25g.
• 350-400FPS: With this velocity, aim for .25g up to .30g depending on your hop up set up. Properly tuned rifles with this BB weight will outperform those with lighter BBs at range.
• 400-450FPS: Going for a DMR set up? Try at least .28g and with proper hop up adjustment, .36g is achievable with exceptional results.
• 500-550FPS: Long range marksmanship requires the heaviest and best BB you can afford. .32g up to .43g is suggested for those who want that "whistle" sound when a heavy BB with good backspin penetrates the air on its way to the doomed target. A patient, meticulous technician and shooter should be able to achieve 250-300ft range with his or her rifle.

 

Inner barrel - ZCI are lower quality barrels than even the stock inner barrels in Ares guns, so that is a waste of money.

 

A wider inner barrel will improve range, but the dispersion will be greater. To counter that you employ something like a flat hop nub, R-hop etc along with the heaviest bb weight that your chosen setup will lift to a flat trajectory.

 

A tighter inner barrel will seriously impact the range, but also greatly improve the tightness of the groupings.

• Best CQB barrel: PDI 6.01 (Value choice: Madbull 6.01 or PDI Raven)
• Best Mid-Range barrel: Prometheus 6.03 (Value choice: Madbull 6.03)
• Best Long Range barrel: PDI 6.05, 6.08 or Orga 6.23 if enough air can be supplied, as the Orga will have the best effect on range. Orga also sells a 6.10 barrel if you cannot supply the air for the full bore 6.23 (Value choice: None, high performance = high cost)
• Avoid stock barrels and cheap barrels (JBU, Classic Army, low-grade steel barrels, storebrand barrels, etc.) and do not believe advertisements claiming a £15 barrel outperforms a £90-120 barrel - this is simply not true

[Hef Legend]

 

Prowin Hop chamber require fettling in most guns, and rarely work with anything made by Ares reliably.

 

BB weight - use the heaviest that the hop unit can lift to a flat trajectory, in the case of Ares Amoeba's stock hop chamber, you'll be damn lucky if it can consistently lift 0.25s let alone 0.3s.

 

(below is borrowed from elsewhere - but is generally relatively correct)

 

• 280-300FPS: No heavier than .20g; however if your hop up is better than average, shoot for .23g.
• 300-350FPS: .25g if your hop up can handle it is a good way to go. .20g still works well here and is appropriate, but try a little heavier like .23g or .25g.
• 350-400FPS: With this velocity, aim for .25g up to .30g depending on your hop up set up. Properly tuned rifles with this BB weight will outperform those with lighter BBs at range.
• 400-450FPS: Going for a DMR set up? Try at least .28g and with proper hop up adjustment, .36g is achievable with exceptional results.
• 500-550FPS: Long range marksmanship requires the heaviest and best BB you can afford. .32g up to .43g is suggested for those who want that "whistle" sound when a heavy BB with good backspin penetrates the air on its way to the doomed target. A patient, meticulous technician and shooter should be able to achieve 250-300ft range with his or her rifle.

 

Inner barrel - ZCI are lower quality barrels than even the stock inner barrels in Ares guns, so that is a waste of money.

 

A wider inner barrel will improve range, but the dispersion will be greater. To counter that you employ something like a flat hop nub, R-hop etc along with the heaviest bb weight that your chosen setup will lift to a flat trajectory.

 

A tighter inner barrel will seriously impact the range, but also greatly improve the tightness of the groupings.

• Best CQB barrel: PDI 6.01 (Value choice: Madbull 6.01 or PDI Raven)
• Best Mid-Range barrel: Prometheus 6.03 (Value choice: Madbull 6.03)
• Best Long Range barrel: PDI 6.05, 6.08 or Orga 6.23 if enough air can be supplied, as the Orga will have the best effect on range. Orga also sells a 6.10 barrel if you cannot supply the air for the full bore 6.23 (Value choice: None, high performance = high cost)
• Avoid stock barrels and cheap barrels (JBU, Classic Army, low-grade steel barrels, storebrand barrels, etc.) and do not believe advertisements claiming a £15 barrel outperforms a £90-120 barrel - this is simply not true

 

ZCI barrels have been tested and documented to be very good in terms of bore quality :S As mentioned for the price they are very good. HunterSe3ker even uses them for pre sale with the Rhops. In my personal opinion, I'd rather a ZCI over most.

 

Madbull are terrible, everyone buys them because of the price but they are inconsistent and coating wears off quickly. You'd do better polishing a stock barrel properly than going for a madbull.

 

I fully agree on PDI, their hop windows aren't great for Rhops/Flat hops though. Orga are very good in HPA/guns with high air volume.

 

I've god an EdGi barrel which is an extremely good barrel, albeit expensive.

[GiantKiwi]

ZCI barrels have been tested and documented to be very good in terms of bore quality :S As mentioned for the price they are very good. HunterSe3ker even uses them for pre sale with the Rhops. In my personal opinion, I'd rather a ZCI over most.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showpost.php?p=1960004&postcount=7

 

Documented where? NA forums all bitch about them (and madbull)

 

Edit: Hunterse3ker is a well known bullshitmonger on NA forums, take any of his recommendations with a very large pinch of salt..

[Lozart]

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showpost.php?p=1960004&postcount=7

 

Documented where? NA forums all bitch about them (and madbull)

 

Edit: Hunterse3ker is a well known bullshitmonger on NA forums, take any of his recommendations with a very large pinch of salt..

Septics bitch about EVERYTHING!!!!!

[GiantKiwi]

Septics bitch about EVERYTHING!!!!!

 

But canada are the carebears of the world (and even they bitch)

[sp00n]

In my experience, Zci and Prometheus make good barrels, I tend to stick to standard hop setups with either a g&g green or TM bucking in aeg's, and firefly buckings elsewhere etc, as I lack the patience for r-hopping etc

[Samurai]

• 280-300FPS: No heavier than .20g; however if your hop up is better than average, shoot for .23g.
• 300-350FPS: .25g if your hop up can handle it is a good way to go. .20g still works well here and is appropriate, but try a little heavier like .23g or .25g.
• 350-400FPS: With this velocity, aim for .25g up to .30g depending on your hop up set up. Properly tuned rifles with this BB weight will outperform those with lighter BBs at range.
• 400-450FPS: Going for a DMR set up? Try at least .28g and with proper hop up adjustment, .36g is achievable with exceptional results.
• 500-550FPS: Long range marksmanship requires the heaviest and best BB you can afford. .32g up to .43g is suggested for those who want that "whistle" sound when a heavy BB with good backspin penetrates the air on its way to the doomed target. A patient, meticulous technician and shooter should be able to achieve 250-300ft range with his or her rifle.

 

This is not 100% true.

In my boltie I use 0.36 or 0.40 with 345fps (with 0.20). I my AEG (340 fps with 0.20) I use 0.3. Far better range and grouping than with lower weights. Not just with these two guns.

In the MK23 I use 0.28 with the fps lower than 300fps (with 0.20). No joule creep in any of those.

 

FPS and BB weight doesn't have much to do with each other. Cylinder vs barrel volume is a key factor for deciding weight. However I always recommend to use the heaviest BB your hopup can spin, if you want effective range and accuracy (and flatter trajectory). Also, heavier BBs reach the target faster too.

The only consideration is cost. If you use full auto then that compensates for the lack of accuracy but you might want more BBs for the same price.

[proffrink]

I agree with Samurai, but the guide isn't bad for someone who's super new and doesn't know what to buy initially. Always push for those heavier weights though.

[GiantKiwi]

but is generally relatively correct)

 

Thank you for not reading this line. About ready to stop bothering with this forum.

[GiantKiwi]

Cylinder vs barrel volume is a key factor for deciding weight. //This is complete and utter bollocks.

 

However I always recommend to use the heaviest BB your hopup can spin, if you want effective range and accuracy (and flatter trajectory). Also, heavier BBs reach the target faster too. //said this already in my post, more proof that people don't actually read anything

[jcheeseright]

You're going to have trouble justifying some copypasta by putting 'generally' in one line.

 

Most of the information there is correct-enough for a complete newbie but not ACTUALLY correct. Much like the model of an atom taught at GCSE is enough to get the general concept across... but is actually complete bollocks.