Using a RIF without UKARA at an airsoft site

[Greenworks]

Hello Everyone!

I've been lurking on the internet for a while searching for some information on owning a RIF without a UKARA license, and I have found some small snippets of info that were useful to me. However, I just wanted to run some things by experienced players to make sure my understanding is correct.

From what I understand:

 

1. It is not illegal for me to OWN a RIF; it was gifted to me by a Film producer who was able to purchase his RIFs due to a filming licence he had (not UKARA though). I did not pay anything for the gun since it was a gift.

2. It is possible for me to use my RIF, given that I don't have a UKARA license, at an Airsoft site (fires well within the fps limits of site in mind, and I am over 18 years of age).

 

It looks like this is a regular post in this "UK Law" section, however I mainly wanted to confirm that point 2 is the case! I do intend to get more into airsoft once I've obtained a UKARA licence for myself

as I want to shoot people (in the most friendly way possible, you get it, right?).

 

Thanks a lot

[proffrink]

It's fine. No one will care if you take it down to a site to play with. VCRA covers the point of sale and not ownership.

 

UKARA isn't a licence - it's a way of validating your defence easily for the purposes of the seller; please try not to call it a licence as people get the wrong idea.

 

Also, he gifted you an Ino M4? That's a very, very expensive gift. You lucky bugger

[jcheeseright]

absolutely no problems there at all.

[Sean]

So in the same instance. If I don't have a defence. However a good friend does. He gives me an RIF as a gift. Is that ok?

[proffrink]

Yes.

[Sean]

Does anyone on here want to be my friend? You gift me an RIF I will gift you some money.

 

It's a bit of a farce really isn't it? I understand the reason why they try and police it but surely this isn't the way.

[proffrink]

I know you're kidding (at least I hope you are) but it's to do with the legal definition of what a sale actually is rather than VCRA itself. It's a little silly, but we're actually lucky in the UK to have such lax laws on RIFs - don't put that at risk by being silly.

 

If you can come up with a better way of policing RIFs then we'd be happy to hear it.

 

You're new to this sport so the nuances of how it's governed legally and the responsibilities that each player has may be lost on you right now, but you'll see as you go along that we have to be much more self-governing than anywhere else to make sure legislation doesn't creep in again. Public posts like yours are the kinds of things that could be dug up in years to come and read out in some civil servant's office somewhere so be cautious.

[Greenworks]

Thanks for the really swift replies guys!

 

It's fine. No one will care if you take it down to a site to play with. VCRA covers the point of sale and not ownership.

 

UKARA isn't a licence - it's a way of validating your defence easily for the purposes of the seller; please try not to call it a licence as people get the wrong idea.

 

Also, he gifted you an Ino M4? That's a very, very expensive gift. You lucky bugger

 

Great, thanks a lot, that's the main thing I wanted addressed. I wasn't sure if they would have some sort of problem with it but if that's not the case then it seems I'm good to go!

I was incredibly lucky to be gifted the M4. The build quality is top notch, the blowback feels like a 9mm and I'm definitely not worthy of such a weapon . It does fire at around 390-410 fps though, which

is above the limit of most sites around London I've found, so I may just end up selling it and investing a cheaper, more skirmish-able weapon.

 

 

Does anyone on here want to be my friend? You gift me an RIF I will gift you some money.

It's a bit of a farce really isn't it? I understand the reason why they try and police it but surely this isn't the way.

 

I feel like it's not actually as bad as it may seem! I'd rather have some fairly stringent laws in place which make it a better experience for people who intend to use the RIFs for what they should be used for, than make it easier for someone who mess it up for the rest of us.

[proffrink]

You could throw an NPAS in it to adjust it to whatever you want. PM me if you need any help with the WA-based GBBRs as there's a lot of upgrades out there and an overwhelming amount of information too. I wouldn't sell it because you'd lose a fair bit of its value, and it's a £800 gun.

[Sean]

I know you're kidding (at least I hope you are) but it's to do with the legal definition of what a sale actually is rather than VCRA itself. It's a little silly, but we're actually lucky in the UK to have such lax laws on RIFs - don't put that at risk by being silly.

 

If you can come up with a better way of policing RIFs then we'd be happy to hear it.

 

You're new to this sport so the nuances of how it's governed legally and the responsibilities that each player has may be lost on you right now, but you'll see as you go along that we have to be much more self-governing than anywhere else to make sure legislation doesn't creep in again. Public posts like yours are the kinds of things that could be dug up in years to come and read out in some civil servant's office somewhere so be cautious.

In your opinion what do you see as the point in Vcra? To me it seems a half arsed approach to it. Like you say it needs to be self-governing which in itself is almost an open door for misuse.

What do you think?

[proffrink]

I think it's a hastily prepared and poorly written piece of legislature that doesn't do much for the players or regular citizen in practice but it does provide additional way of prosecuting people who use plastic guns to hold up Post Offices and the like.

 

Edit

That doesn't mean that as a player you can just ignore it though.

[Twice19]

Definately better than the alternative, which was an all-out ban on RIFs etc.

I've been playing since before VCRA & UKARA when we could pick up an AEG from anywhere - no questions asked.

The VCRA is hastily prepares and poorly written - but that's politics.

And yes, UKARA, does have some loopholes that can be exploited if your that way inclined - but airsoft is a sport reliant on honesty, so 99% of players don't/won't exploit the loophole(s) just to get a new gun a little early.

 

But the original proposal was a full ban which would have killed off Airsoft or anything remotely like it.

 

Personally, I think it's better to have a system that isn't perfect - but we can work with; than no system and no sport at all.

[Sacarathe]

And yes, UKARA, does have some loopholes that can be exploited if your that way inclined - but airsoft is a sport reliant on honesty, so 99% of players don't/won't exploit the loophole(s) just to get a new gun a little early.

Don't believe you!

[Twice19]

I do have a very shiny view of the world.

Maybe I should have said "I'd like to think that 99% of players..."

[Mr Monkey Nuts]

But the original proposal was a full ban which would have killed off Airsoft or anything remotely like it.

 

But it didn't did it? I can walk out of any air rifle shop this afternoon with a .177 RIF Pistol or rifle, whith nothing more than an id and a credit card often for less than £100.

I can walk out of any paint balling shop with a realistic looking marker, ok may not be milspec but still realistic to the eyes of the layperson.

 

ASG Dan Wesson for example, .177 No defence, reason or rational required to buy today as long as its face to face.

.6mm from airsoft retailer, same gun, same box, same factory, only difference is low power shells and a farction of a larger barrel diameter.

Visually identical, Both RIFs.

 

Only Airsoft seem to acknowledge that the vcra even exists, and we get so worked up over frankly insignificant things that it makes a joke of the community.

The whole UKARA was original devised so a select few retailers could exercise their dominance and control over the sport, its changed and moulded over the years but to say the game would not exist or airsoft guns would be outlawed without it is frankly moronic.

 

The very big issue that the game came under the spotlight for, was selling guns to kids. that is the primary aim of ukara and if they concentrated on just not selling to kids like the airgun community does; then the whole ordeal would be so much more effective and imho boost the sport.

 

(im not saying kids cant shoot airsoft guns, but all ukara was interested in was banning them from buying them)

[Sacarathe]

Only Airsoft seem to acknowledge that the vcra even exists, and we get so worked up over frankly insignificant things that it makes a joke of the community.

The whole UKARA was original devised so a select few retailers could exercise their dominance and control over the sport, its changed and moulded over the years but to say the game would not exist or airsoft guns would be outlawed without it is frankly moronic.

 

The very big issue that the game came under the spotlight for, was selling guns to kids. that is the primary aim of ukara and if they concentrated on just not selling to kids like the airgun community does; then the whole ordeal would be so much more effective and imho boost the sport.

 

(im not saying kids cant shoot airsoft guns, but all ukara was interested in was banning them from buying them)

 

Confused!

 

I wonder if you can use UKARA to import deactivated firearms. Since it's needed for non-functional airsoft guns. Think i'll start a thread on that.

[Twice19]

 

But it didn't did it? I can walk out of any air rifle shop this afternoon with a .177 RIF Pistol or rifle, whith nothing more than an id and a credit card often for less than £100.

I can walk out of any paint balling shop with a realistic looking marker, ok may not be milspec but still realistic to the eyes of the layperson.

 

Looking into VCRA, it identifies Air Weapons and Imitation Firearms as two different things to be controlled - which is probably why you can buy an air rifle with no problems.

I admit it's a flawed system.

 

I'm not sure on the technical, or legal, side of as to why. Both are, admirably, RIF's.

But the people who write these laws have probably never even heard of Airsoft prior to the VCRA being introduced.

 

I was always under the impeasion that the limitations in RIF's wasn't due to kids owning - but people buying RIFs and *apparently* using them in robberies etc (whether this ever actually happened - I don't know).

 

I'll admit I may be wrong - this is from memory of something which was introduced around 10yrs ago.

[Sacarathe]

But the people who write these laws have probably never even heard of Airsoft prior to the VCRA being introduced.

 

The first version (draft) of VCRA maybe.

[Greenworks]

You could throw an NPAS in it to adjust it to whatever you want. PM me if you need any help with the WA-based GBBRs as there's a lot of upgrades out there and an overwhelming amount of information too. I wouldn't sell it because you'd lose a fair bit of its value, and it's a £800 gun.

Ohh I didn't know those existed, I'll look into them ASAP. The only problem is mags cost around £60 for the M4, which is simply too much especially since they only hold 50 rounds and I couldn't find hi-caps. Thanks for the offer, I may PM you at some point!

[ak2m4]

Only Airsoft seem to acknowledge that the vcra even exists, and we get so worked up over frankly insignificant things that it makes a joke of the community.

The whole UKARA was original devised so a select few retailers could exercise their dominance and control over the sport, its changed and moulded over the years but to say the game would not exist or airsoft guns would be outlawed without it is frankly moronic.

 

Excellent point MMN. So many rumours and misinformation were spread during 2007 / 2008 that it just caused confusion - e.g. "UKARA license", even now almost 10 years on! Personally I would have preferred a system where if you wanted to play airsoft you joined a local site, gained membership etc. Easy in hindsight and all in the past now...... sigh

[skarra333]

 

Excellent point MMN. So many rumours and misinformation were spread during 2007 / 2008 that it just caused confusion - e.g. "UKARA license", even now almost 10 years on! Personally I would have preferred a system where if you wanted to play airsoft you joined a local site, gained membership etc. Easy in hindsight and all in the past now...... sigh

 

In fairness, even some retailers are continuing the confusion... JD Airsoft's JDBay pages requires you to: "Enter UKARA Licence Number".

[ak2m4]

"Enter UKARA Licence Number" ............. Genius :-)