Anyone fitted a microswitch in a v2 gearbox?

[simonh]

Been having some semi-auto firing issues on a gun, switching to full auto for a burst and then back seems to clear it. wanted to move to lipos and fit a mosfet anyway so stripped it down to take a look and sure enough the trigger contacts are charred and carbon'd.

 

now I can just buy a direct replacement contacts for not much money but it seems a better idea to install a microswitch, but I can't seem to find much info out there about it being done or what the success rate is like?

 

They are only a few quid so I might just buy one anyway but wanted to garner some experiences if they are out there.

 

Simon

 

 

[Mr Monkey Nuts]

There are no direct replacement micro switches that just drop into a GB. other than the Specre and ASCU ,but they are certainly not cheap.

 

I have one of these http://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/gearbox-shells/zci-gearbox-shell which are very nice, but sell out quickly.

[Samurai]

Been having some semi-auto firing issues on a gun, switching to full auto for a burst and then back seems to clear it.

 

Installing a microswitch won't solve that.

You need to pull the trigger fully, all the time.

[Sitting Duck]

And if you fit a mosfet your contacts won't burn out again

Which on any gearbox with microswitch they burn out like f*ck without a fet

 

So fit a mosfet, stick to old skool trigger setup - not 101% perfect but works quite well

cheap n easy to replace etc....

 

microswitch - hairline trigger crap etc....

can be done on old skool triggers quite well if you have half a brain and a little time....

 

http://www.ptairsoft.org/forum/index.php?topic=44665.0

yes you will need to translate it but this is similar to what I started looking into

and this method I think is best all round mod to reduce trigger pull on v2's and V3's

still a bit of mod-test-mod a bit more but does seem best method so far

JB Weld or epoxy glue is better than using superglue imho

bit of plastic - bloody neat trigger mod (mosfet of course)

 

sod microswitch imho

 

Been having some semi-auto firing issues on a gun, switching to full auto for a burst and then back seems to clear it. wanted to move to lipos and fit a mosfet anyway so stripped it down to take a look and sure enough the trigger contacts are charred and carbon'd.

 

As Samurai said learn trigger discipline

if contacts are charred & carbon'd - but seems like it still works then after a clean up they will be fine

if cut-off & trigger works ok then fit fet and contacts should be fine

reason I say this is that "sometimes" fitting a new switch may just need a slight check/file to get new switch to work 101% correctly

heard shs switches - that are good needs a tiny mod in some guns & others they work perfectly as is

just the norm with all stuff as many many times TM compatible is rarely 101% TM compatible for every box out there

sounds to me - existing switch is still ok but just a bit dirty - though I haven't got it in front of me

if it still works - then clean it and keep it

 

afterthought....

 

yes some people have replaced the "prongs" or contacts with a 6mm or smaller tactile switch

but this makes a little clicky noise when in use that many microswitches do

but obviously like all microswitches you MUST use a fet

and even then you won't get a hairline trigger until you do the mod properly

eg: takes out the slack in trigger travel carefully checking and slight modding to cut off lever

or without the mod the travel will be too short for correct operation both semi & auto

 

so yeah you can fit a microswitch using a tactile like above, replacing the contacts but keeping most of existing switch system

but still will need a bit of modding if trying to do it properly with hairline trigger

me - may as well stick to old skool if it works, fit fet and at least take out slack a little to reduce trigger pull a bit

[simonh]

For the sake of clarity I already bought the mosfet (and some other bits) to rewire the gun so that is getting done either way.

 

Bought a couple of micro switches as they are so cheap to have a play with, if I can't make it work easily then it is only a few quid and a bit of time wasted.

 

The gearbox linked to above looks cool though

[ak2m4]

Hey Simon, the gearboxes are pretty nice however they are not for every build because they won't fit in standard upper receivers without some modding unfortunately. They are around 5mm longer than standard V2 gearbox shells, similar to what ARES use.

 

Personally I prefer the old style trigger system but with the quick release spring guide that are the same dimensions of the standard V2 shell - I'm starting to see more and more of these hit the market. (similar to the one in the pic below).

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Dont know why so many people bang on about trigger response even a bog standard V3 is pretty instantaneous and the follow up shot is pretty quick and they have a much longer trigger pull than the more common V2.

Most people lose out because they react too slow not the trigger. Dont blame the tool improve the workman.

[Sitting Duck]

V3 deffo has long trigger pull due to wear in the 2piece trigger

an old JG G36c, a Galaxy mp5k plus another one I was tinkering with was a joke with loads of slack

finally switch engages right near the absolute very end of travel

there was considerable wear/slack on the 2nd "cam lever" of mechanism so replacing that helped

but can reduce the total travel further with some glue & thin 1mm to 2mm plastic

 

mine wasn't not exactly ultra hairline - but reduced travel for sure

 

V2's are not that bad but think they are an easier mod than v3 one for people who want absolute instant response, hairline trigger, precocking blah blah blah

but yeah an experienced player can kick ar$e even without all the crazy stuff

 

I looked into some of the v3 trigger stuff coz some boxes were quite full of play/wear/slack and like said only just about seemed to engage at end of travel

 

The trigger mod is not a must do mod, but many assume a microswitch will give shorter trigger pull

but if keeping cut off lever then any old skool type trigger system still needs close careful tweaking as every box/trigger is different

only attempt if you are quite sensible, ready to spend time & time checking and above have some spares to start over if you totally screw up

[Lozart]

Want a short trigger pull? Get a BTC Spectre. Job jobbed.

[simonh]

To be fair I never said I wanted better or hair trigger response, just seemed like a good time to upgrade if I could

[Lozart]

To be fair I never said I wanted better or hair trigger response, just seemed like a good time to upgrade if I could

 

 

Just to be aware, some mosfets cannot cope with microswitch trigger units. You need a modern one like the current generation of GATE mosfets that have debounce circuits on the trigger contacts. Otherwise your motor is going to have a bad time.

[simonh]

I've just got the ones from the component shop, no need for any fancy AB or anything....

[Sitting Duck]

I've just got the ones from the component shop, no need for any fancy AB or anything....

 

 

http://www.firestormsystems.com/shop/electronics/mosfet-switch.html

bloody good little mofo there ready to rock n roll for a tenner delivered

 

or make your own 3034 fet but only get true genuine 3034's from places like farnell or rswww

you need to buy a number of fets but if you go in with a few people the bits come down to about £3:50

plus you can make the fets as to each spec of gun - though tbh build a few fets at same time whilst iron is out

 

tbh - it is a bit of work to make just one single mosfet

the f-storm one is one of cheapest best value one around and for doing one gun or two whybother building ya own

there are others like nano gates, some may like AB but a straight forward non ab will do most people

 

yes you can get debounce but if the operation of switch is true, strong and correct it will be fine

so unless it is pi$$ poor switch or maybe AB fets could start to reverse polarity for a tiny nano split second on bouncey signals

a normal simple fet will be fine - well I think so

[simonh]

Well I guess I am going to find out, will be starting on a spare gun so it won't matter if it gets fecked. The biggest issue I have with the fets I bought is that they are 14awg silicon coated so are 3.4mm dia each. Have ordered some 2mm PTFE coated that is only 2.4mm dia each that I will re wire them with. Also have a tracer unit to add into the mad bull ultimate hop that I will wire into the motor contacts at the same time as well while it is in bits

[Sitting Duck]

ouch 14awg takes some modding.....

yeah it can go in say a rear wired ak

but routing it through a v2 - heck even G&G's have little room and need a bit of dremmel work to get 16awg in there

 

Turnigy 16awg is about 3.0mm and is still a bit tightin G&G M4's especially if rear wired with 2 wires back to fet

so you got a 16awg plus 2 thin fet wires - supply+signal wires to fet, plus negative wire than gets close to restricting

the G&G AR latch operating 101% - swapping out a different ar latch but still a bit of dremmel n file work - pain

major pain - but when done the thicker wire and mosfet with deans really improves response and unleashes hell over stock setup

 

PTFE is ok and insulation is tougher - doesn't split like silicone can if trapped or nicked easily

but is stiffer insulation so shape it well coz it doesn't flex like silicone so can pull on motor connectors and such if not shaped

 

presume you are gonna light up the madbull tracer unit on the posi side rather than trigger side of switch

or it will take a couple/few tracers to pop out lit up correctly

some fit a small connector or switch to the tracer unit but this works better on front wired m4 as opposed to rear wired

oooh there a number of ways to wire stuff in, even running the fet's signal wire outside the gearbox if needed and you think motor might catch wires inside box

 

have a look around - google up some images of others work so you can get some possible options of what might work best with least agro

 

if its your first build - don't worry too much

it may be a bit untidy at first but your next build and others will be a lot neater & tidier I'm sure

 

maybe wire in a tiny mico connector for hop unit - like a tiny micro deans or JST type connector

so you can plug it in/out when needed or not - then concentrate on just the gearbox wiring

then look at tracer unit later....

Don't wanna bite off too much at once - so you can get each bit sorted at a time

or have lots of spaghetti wires everywhere trying to shim & close up box etc.....

 

best of luck

[simonh]

Had plenty of gearboxes apart, changed gears, pistons, motors etc just never done anything on the electrics side but do have a background in car and home audio mods so am fairly comfortable with what needs to be done.

 

I did get the 14awg into a classic army m6 with no dremeling, routed the trigger wires around the outside to make it work. But had to change it to rear wired rather than front wired. Need to pull that apart to fit a new piston as the one in it is showing some wear and I didn't have one handy to fit, so am going to change it back to front wired on the PTFE wiring I've ordered. That will be the test bed for the micro switch as well.

[Lozart]

 

yes you can get debounce but if the operation of switch is true, strong and correct it will be fine

so unless it is pi$$ poor switch or maybe AB fets could start to reverse polarity for a tiny nano split second on bouncey signals

a normal simple fet will be fine - well I think so

Sorry but I think you're wrong. No microswitch I've ever used has had no switch bounce and that includes the high end stuff I used to use for aircraft spec systems. It's just the nature of the beast.

[Sitting Duck]

Sorry but I think you're wrong. No microswitch I've ever used has had no switch bounce and that includes the high end stuff I used to use for aircraft spec systems. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

On AB fets the split nano second the signal may spike - the polarity will reverse - not good

and continue to run correct direction again....

 

On normal non-AB fets you won't get the reverse polarity like on AB ones if there was any split second spike/signal bounce

 

So I feel extra stuff like pull down resistors etc.. are not needed for most toy gun apllications

 

Mofo spectres etc.. will have filtering as the tiny tiny proximity switches used are the same micro proximity switches used in dvd players

to signal the limits of the dvd laser etc.... amongst many many other uses - these switches are very tiny with hardly much contacts

so yes think they could spike and need a filter I'll accept that

 

tactile switches - hmmm somewhere in between the conventional switch contacts and a micro proximity - might be ok I'd say on a 3034

 

End of the day it is just a basic mosfet - the TVS diode is to protect the fet from spikes

the motor may benefit from additional protection perhaps on AB but think on normal fets it will be alright

 

carbon will build up eventually and new brushes & re-cutting the communator is an option but tbh most may just get another motor

and perhaps keep a old neodym handy to rebuild with some brushes/armature from a half decent stock ferrite if they wish

 

end of day a fet is still gonna better than running with no fet

and on smaller switches like even modest size microswitches some basic must be used or the contacts will fry well before the motor gives out

 

yes in industry circuits need protecting and ensure clean signals are sent spike free

basic toy guns - hmmm perhaps not always a must on basic 3034's - AB's might be different I'll admit but not used one to confirm

 

Now I'm no expert - I will clearly admit to that but thinking about it you seem to be onto something on reflection....

On AB mosfets that can make motor run warmer from the Active Braking....

I wonder if the spikes are contributing to this further by possible spikes causing the AB to operate in reverse on each trigger pull

just for a tiny microscopic nano second then cycling correctly as signal settles....

 

YES - that does seem to make, sense signal bounce especially on AB's could further increase wear/heat from the way the AB operates

Very likely that if filtering was used on AB's especially it could very well reduce heat & wear like you said sir

So I'll agree on the AB side of things

Maybe not that important on basic fets

But you would know a massive more about this than moi

 

not gonna argue - I think we may be both correct depending on the type of mosfet used

 

If I'm very wrong then I stand corrected - peace my way more techy member

[simonh]

Getting way more technical than I expected, but at the end of the day new motors, gears, pistons, switches, wires, even gearboxes are all relatively cheap to replace. So if I try it and it doesn't work or goes tits up then it is no biggie...

[simonh]

yeah so without significant butchering of the gearbox and losing the selector plate this isn't going to work with the gearboxes I have...

 

and I broke a bloody selector plate fitting the damm thing back together!

[n1ckh]

If I was going to go the micro switch route in my aeg's then I was toying (see what I've done there lol, please don't hurt me) with using the long tail switch. You can use spade connectors on the contacts & after a bit of grinding & placement, bend the tail if needed onto the trigger