UKARA renewal

[Cannonfodder]

On 05/07/2024 at 11:05, BigStew said:

That is all it's for. The only other thing I can think of is if you get raided and didn't keep your receipts.

How ukara would help there? Owning rifs isn't illegal and if police are visiting with the big red key then you've got bigger problems 

[Rogerborg]

5 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

How ukara would help there? Owning rifs isn't illegal 

 

No, but the process is the punishment, and the sooner you can end that process by saying "It's OK, I've got a loicence" the better.

 

Remember, this bloke only escaped a patently bogus conviction for posting a video of his toys because the prosecution got caught tampering with the evidence.

[Paltala]

On 13/07/2024 at 13:22, gavinkempsell said:

Have you bought any rif's from a dealer since? If you're a regular player at the site that registered you then it's maybe been automatically updated.

No, trying to get back into it. I haven't been playing for years and the site I used to play at is basically non-existent, Invasion Airsoft. I know there's a woodlands site but I never see anything about games there and the owner has been teasing a new/old CQB site for a while with no info. AFAIK, it's just a shop these days.

[Cannonfodder]

3 hours ago, Paltala said:

No, trying to get back into it. I haven't been playing for years and the site I used to play at is basically non-existent, Invasion Airsoft. I know there's a woodlands site but I never see anything about games there and the owner has been teasing a new/old CQB site for a while with no info. AFAIK, it's just a shop these days.

In that case it's very unlikely that you're still on the ukara database

[gavinkempsell]

Well the deed has been done, played at POW today.

[Paltala]

48 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

In that case it's very unlikely that you're still on the ukara database

I figured as much, I emailed Patrolbase to ask them to check. Just seems odd that I never had an email to say it had expired or anything.

[Cannonfodder]

I don't remember getting a e mail when mine expired either

[gavinkempsell]

4 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

I don't remember getting a e mail when mine expired either

Apparently the site got one too.

[Rogerborg]

20 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

I don't remember getting a e mail when mine expired either

 

The first time I got an email about one was this year. I had another that expired last year with no email.

[Galvatron]

I got an email a month before mine was due to expire.

[Lozart]

13 hours ago, Galvatron said:

I got an email a month before mine was due to expire.

 

Same here.

[Colin Allen]

5 hours ago, Lozart said:

 

Same here.

Likewise.

[Speedy Sloth]

My latest ukara registration lapsed and I got an email, but didn't during COVID when it lapsed.

 

Looking through the privacy policy very quickly, it also doesn't state they will use the details given to them to contact players .

 

It does seem somewhat funny that whilst a ukara registration only lasts 1 year, the ukara website essentially says they will hold on to your data forever as point 9 of the privacy terms. 

 

From a privacy perspective seems overkill to hold data indefinitely.

Edited July 16 by Speedy Sloth
Context added

[Tommikka]

38 minutes ago, Speedy Sloth said:

 

 

It does seem somewhat funny that whilst a ukara registration only lasts 1 year, the ukara website essentially says they will hold on to your data forever as point 9 of the privacy terms. 

 

From a privacy perspective seems overkill to hold data indefinitely.

Indefinitely is excessive for the retention of personal data, but it may be justifiable

 

It is fully justifiable to retain expired membership information if it could be used to confirm that details were valid at the time of a purchase if required by a retailer - if for example the retailer maintained records that a check had been made but they discarded personal details no longer required.

 

 

Those of you who have had an expiry reminder - was it from the UKARA or from your member site ?  That could account for differing experiences 

[Colin Allen]

50 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

Indefinitely is excessive for the retention of personal data, but it may be justifiable

 

It is fully justifiable to retain expired membership information if it could be used to confirm that details were valid at the time of a purchase if required by a retailer - if for example the retailer maintained records that a check had been made but they discarded personal details no longer required.

 

 

Those of you who have had an expiry reminder - was it from the UKARA or from your member site ?  That could account for differing experiences 

Mine was from UKARA in April 2024.

[Rogerborg]

14 hours ago, Colin Allen said:

Mine was from UKARA in April 2024.

 

Ditto.

[Galvatron]

On 16/07/2024 at 16:34, Speedy Sloth said:

My latest ukara registration lapsed and I got an email, but didn't during COVID when it lapsed.

 

Looking through the privacy policy very quickly, it also doesn't state they will use the details given to them to contact players .

 

It does seem somewhat funny that whilst a ukara registration only lasts 1 year, the ukara website essentially says they will hold on to your data forever as point 9 of the privacy terms. 

 

From a privacy perspective seems overkill to hold data indefinitely.

 

When you consider the VCRA may have banned the sale and possibly ownership of RIFs, one can imagine that UKARA opted to keep a long record of its members to satisfy the government agreeing to the compromise, if any of those members (current or expired) were stupid enough to open-carry a RIF in public.

 

GDPR does permit the retention of personally-identifiable information for as long as it's deemed necessary or justifiable until you explicitly request your personal data be removed or be rendered anonymous.

On 16/07/2024 at 17:16, Tommikka said:

Those of you who have had an expiry reminder - was it from the UKARA or from your member site ?  That could account for differing experiences 

 

In my case, it was from UKARA. May this year.

[Speedy Sloth]

14 hours ago, Galvatron said:

 if any of those members (current or expired) were stupid enough to open-carry a RIF in public.

I do agree with UKARA existence if it's a way to keep the sport going (which it has done and hopefully will continue until the heat death of the universe.)

 

But being devils advocate the UKARA scheme only exists as a method to sell rifs from retailer's to the public. Once it's in the public's hands UKARA has nothing to do with it anymore.

 

You don't need a UKARA to have a rif. And nobody waving one around in public is being checked on the database. The police won't care where you got it from just why you wanted to get shot by armed response.

 

Having a UKARA simply justifies a retailer selling you something because someone was overzealous with the rules at one point in time. 

 

we make it easier to get an air gun than an Airsoft replica in this country, makes no sense.

Edited July 18 by Speedy Sloth
Grammar

[gavinkempsell]

11 hours ago, Speedy Sloth said:

we make it easier to get an air gun than an Airsoft replica in this country, makes no sense.

I seem to remember it being easier to buy a RS in USA or some parts of the US than it is to buy a RIF, dunno where I read it or if that's true or not.

[Galvatron]

11 hours ago, Speedy Sloth said:

I do agree with UKARA existence if it's a way to keep the sport going (which it has done and hopefully will continue until the heat death of the universe.)

 

But being devils advocate the UKARA scheme only exists as a method to sell rifs from retailer's to the public. Once it's in the public's hands UKARA has nothing to do with it anymore.

 

You don't need a UKARA to have a rif. And nobody waving one around in public is being checked on the database. The police won't care where you got it from just why you wanted to get shot by armed response.

 

Having a UKARA simply justifies a retailer selling you something because someone was overzealous with the rules at one point in time. 

 

we make it easier to get an air gun than an Airsoft replica in this country, makes no sense.

 

I don't recall claiming UKARA was required for possession. I do agree that there is excessive zeal with the rules though.

 

Who said the world has to make sense all the time? Laws aren't always reflective of trying to make sense, they are often reflective of the wealthy and the well-connected being able to sway government policy to suit their agendas.

 

Airguns are easier to acquire because there are shooting clubs with the power to lobby at a time when airsoft wasn't anywhere near as big as it is today.

 

[Cannonfodder]

People do seem to forget that getting an air gun isn't that easy, especially if the buyer wants it for nefarious reasons. You can't get one delivered to your door and all sales are logged (by serial number iirc). Also under 18s cannot be gifted an air gun, use one unsupervised or even buy pellets. It's even worse if you're in Jockland as over 18s need an FAC to buy anything with w muzzle energy over 1j

[JimFromHorsham]

26 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

People do seem to forget that getting an air gun isn't that easy, especially if the buyer wants it for nefarious reasons. You can't get one delivered to your door and all sales are logged (by serial number iirc). Also under 18s cannot be gifted an air gun, use one unsupervised or even buy pellets. It's even worse if you're in Jockland as over 18s need an FAC to buy anything with w muzzle energy over 1j

Over 18 for purchase and home delivery is available from many retailers ( the home delivery is by someone who is registered onto the retailers RFD license ) however private sales can be shipped using the appropriate courier service , but again you’d need to satisfy yourself the purchaser is over 18.

 

under 14’s need supervision at all times in all aspects of shooting , private land or written permissions included  .

 

between 14-17 you no longer need supervision as long as on private premises / land or land with written permission  .

 

scotland is subject to the AWC licensing .

 

Airgun guidance

[Cannonfodder]

1 hour ago, JimFromHorsham said:

Over 18 for purchase and home delivery is available from many retailers ( the home delivery is by someone who is registered onto the retailers RFD license ) however private sales can be shipped using the appropriate courier service , but again you’d need to satisfy yourself the purchaser is over 18.

Cheers, I thought that you could order online or over the phone, but it had to be shipped to a RFD where the buyer would collect it

 

But it's still not as easy to get as some seem to think

Edited July 19 by Cannonfodder

[JimFromHorsham]

2 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

Cheers, I thought that you could order online or over the phone, but it had to be shipped to a RFD where the buyer would collect it

 

But it's still not as easy to get as some seem to think

you can do that too , but a lot of RFD offer a home delivery on top . 

[Rogerborg]

6 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

Jockland as over 18s need an FAC to buy anything with w muzzle energy over 1j

 

Jockland? 😠 It's Jockshire.

 

1J is Norn Terror Isl- I mean, Northern Ireland.  Jockshire, as above, needs a specific airgun loicence for non-airsoft airgun firearm, which is different from both a FAC and a shotgun cert - although you can apply for one along with a shotgun cert, for reasons that escape me.

 

Where it gets interesting is that it's easy to accidentally turn a boltie into a >2.5J non-airsoft airgun.  I've done it myself using a "500fps" spring that resulted in an eye-watering (or eyeball bursting) 3.3J.  And remember that the airsoft power limit is with "any missile", so the State could drop in a 0.86g steel BB and watch it Joule creep to the moon.  So now I tune to under 2.2J even at sites with a 2.3J limit.