Upgrading my first AEG

[davidf]

Hey, first time posting. Do tell me if I have missed something or popped this in the wrong place. 

Relatively new to the whole upgrading yourself side of things. So here goes. 

Want to upgrade the Specna Arms SA-C20 CORE (It is completely stock model) as it doesn't feel as good as my other rifles which have been upgraded (not by me). 
basically a list of all the items im getting and will install in my old gun:

• Aster v2 Gate SE Expert
• Quantum Trigger
• Nuprol High Torque Motor *(Long Shaft)
• M110 (hoping for under 350fps on .25g
• Prometheus Purple Hop Rubber
• Prometheus Inner Barrel 360mm
• Laylax Outer Barrel 363mm
• Gate Hop-Up Chamber

Hoping this will operate efficient with the base gearset. (Reason being is that I dont really want to get new gears and mess around with removing Teeth.

Unless anyone has a recommendation on a 12:1 / 13:1 set that will operate out the box I can drop in.. no tinkering required

My question to the wider group is. Will these item function well. Any recommendation (without going over that price bracket (no gate 2) and if it will work well without me having to change the gears. 

Thanks everyone  

[Dan Robinson]

2 minutes ago, davidf said:

M110 (hoping for under 350fps on .25g

 

You'll need to aim for 310fps for .25s.  Otherwise your gun will be too spicy.

[davidf]

7 minutes ago, Dan Robinson said:

 

You'll need to aim for 310fps for .25s.  Otherwise your gun will be too spicy.

Thanks mate. stick to an M100 then

16 minutes ago, Dan Robinson said:

 

You'll need to aim for 310fps for .25s.  Otherwise your gun will be too spicy.

Should I take this as that the items mentioned will operate well

 

[EDcase]

Very hard to tell if the components will work well together but the functional parts you listed should be good.

I hope you have a chrono to test fps before and after.

(Remember all site limit fps are with 0.2g)

 

Oh, and what spec batteries are you driving it with?

Edited April 9 by EDcase

[Pseudotectonic]

Nuprol "High Torque" Motor is definitely not high torque, it says it can only handle m110 which is something a low torque motor does. For the same money I'd get a Chihai 22 or 28 TPA motor from aliexpress.

 

I would say no need to replace inner barrel, outer barrel, and hop chamber, because there is not much improvement you will get (these parts either work, or don't, there is little to gain), but will most likely get compatibility issues.

 

A 13:1 gear should be drop in and play, you don't need to remove any teeth (aka short stroking).

 

Personally I would prefer Perun hybrid with the Perun clicker (great fun) than a hair trigger with Aster. But this is personal opinion.

[Colin Allen]

14 minutes ago, davidf said:

Thanks mate. stick to an M100 then

Should I take this as that the items mentioned will operate well

 

I would ditch your suggested hop rubber and barrel and replace them with a 50 degree Maple Leaf Macaron with a red nub from AK2M4 and one of his XT barrels as well.

I would also replace the Aster with a Perun Hybrid.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Not sure if I've missed something but I don't see how changing the outer barrel will make any difference to performance 

[Pseudotectonic]

18 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

Not sure if I've missed something but I don't see how changing the outer barrel will make any difference to performance 

The stock one seems to be a 11.5" barrel while the new one might be a 14.5"

[davidf]

2 hours ago, EDcase said:

Very hard to tell if the components will work well together but the functional parts you listed should be good.

I hope you have a chrono to test fps before and after.

(Remember all site limit fps are with 0.2g)

 

Oh, and what spec batteries are you driving it with?

Hi mate! 

Site limit is 350 on .2 and running 7.4v 1300mAh. Want to change to 11.1v 1450

1 hour ago, Cannonfodder said:

Not sure if I've missed something but I don't see how changing the outer barrel will make any difference to performance 

outer barrel is to match the new inner barrel length. My current barrel is far to long (for my personal taste ) sorry for the lack on context on that one

2 hours ago, Pseudotectonic said:

Nuprol "High Torque" Motor is definitely not high torque, it says it can only handle m110 which is something a low torque motor does. For the same money I'd get a Chihai 22 or 28 TPA motor from aliexpress.

 

I would say no need to replace inner barrel, outer barrel, and hop chamber, because there is not much improvement you will get (these parts either work, or don't, there is little to gain), but will most likely get compatibility issues.

 

A 13:1 gear should be drop in and play, you don't need to remove any teeth (aka short stroking).

 

Personally I would prefer Perun hybrid with the Perun clicker (great fun) than a hair trigger with Aster. But this is personal opinion.

THANKS! Great advice on the motor there mate apprecaite it.

Is that the perun v2 HYBRID? 

 

 

Current barrel length 

Edited April 9 by davidf

[Cannonfodder]

38 minutes ago, davidf said:

Site limit is 350 on .2 and running 7.4v 1300mAh. Want to change to 11.1v 1450

Battery voltage has no effect on fps, it should increase the rate of fire though

40 minutes ago, davidf said:

outer barrel is to match the new inner barrel length. My current barrel is far to long (for my personal taste ) sorry for the lack on context on that one

No worries, 8 didn't realise you're changing barrel length 

[davidf]

8 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

Battery voltage has no effect on fps, it should increase the rate of fire though

No worries, 8 didn't realise you're changing barrel length 

 

Aware of voltage not effecting the fps just answering the chaps question about battery specs. 

 

Yeah changing the barrel as it's just so long and want a cleaner finish with the suppressor coming out the rail unit. 

 

Thanks again friend 

[Fatboy40]

11 hours ago, davidf said:

• Aster v2 Gate SE Expert
• Quantum Trigger
• Nuprol High Torque Motor *(Long Shaft)
• M110 (hoping for under 350fps on .25g
• Prometheus Purple Hop Rubber
• Prometheus Inner Barrel 360mm
• Laylax Outer Barrel 363mm
• Gate Hop-Up Chamber

 

It's hard to justify but I'd take a Titan over an Aster, and do you really need the Expert firmware or are you buying the kit so you get the adapter to use GCS? Also with a Titan you'll be able to use Maxx Model triggers.

 

Dump the Nuprol motor and get a 22 TPA one from @ak2m4, the one with the "fan", so much better and probably cheaper.

 

Personally I'd drop the Prometheus everything and go with Maple Leaf for the inner barrel and marry it with an MR bucking to get great hop (an out of the box r-hop that require very little pressure with the right bucking hardness).

 

Also, if they're the same price I'd drop the Gate hop unit and go with a Max Model M4A-PRO as it has so many better nub options that come with it (the hard concave nub with the MR bucking's is great).

 

Finally think about swapping the spring in-front of the hop unit with rubber o-rings, you get a better air seal plus less vibration, so you may then get away with an M105.

[davidf]

1 hour ago, Fatboy40 said:

 

It's hard to justify but I'd take a Titan over an Aster, and do you really need the Expert firmware or are you buying the kit so you get the adapter to use GCS? Also with a Titan you'll be able to use Maxx Model triggers.

 

Dump the Nuprol motor and get a 22 TPA one from @ak2m4, the one with the "fan", so much better and probably cheaper.

 

Personally I'd drop the Prometheus everything and go with Maple Leaf for the inner barrel and marry it with an MR bucking to get great hop (an out of the box r-hop that require very little pressure with the right bucking hardness).

 

Also, if they're the same price I'd drop the Gate hop unit and go with a Max Model M4A-PRO as it has so many better nub options that come with it (the hard concave nub with the MR bucking's is great).

 

Finally think about swapping the spring in-front of the hop unit with rubber o-rings, you get a better air seal plus less vibration, so you may then get away with an M105.

Amazing. Plan on taking all the advice given here and just formulating a list later today.- likely just use the GCS

 

Appreciate it's a no, but is there a site I can get most of these parts from? As I have a few baskets with items in across 3 sites; patrolbase / landwarrior / DCA 

 

Haha

Edited April 10 by davidf

[Cannonfodder]

47 minutes ago, davidf said:

Aware of voltage not effecting the fps just answering the chaps question about battery specs

👍

You'd be surprised how many don't know this.

[davidf]

7 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

👍

You'd be surprised how many don't know this.

Hehe 🤣

Any one tried The Real Deal Piston which has the 2nd tooth pre cut? 

 

Or any recommendations on a piston with a precut 2nd tooth that isn't that brand. 

 

Or is this not really that important to change. 

[Lozart]

23 minutes ago, davidf said:

Hehe 🤣

Any one tried The Real Deal Piston which has the 2nd tooth pre cut? 

 

Or any recommendations on a piston with a precut 2nd tooth that isn't that brand. 

 

Or is this not really that important to change. 

 

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons/xt-14-tooth-piston-blue

 

That's my go-to piston these days. What is driving your decision making process on the parts you've mentioned?

 

As for "will it all work well together" - only if it's put together well. This is going to sound harsh but you can't just throw shiny bits at a problem and expect it to be awesome. If you get cheaper parts and put them together well they can work as well if not better than all the shiny gizmos if they're just thrown together. You're changing A LOT in one go so expect to have some teething issues, especially as this is your first attempt at DIY tuning.

[davidf]

14 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons/xt-14-tooth-piston-blue

 

That's my go-to piston these days. What is driving your decision making process on the parts you've mentioned?

 

As for "will it all work well together" - only if it's put together well. This is going to sound harsh but you can't just throw shiny bits at a problem and expect it to be awesome. If you get cheaper parts and put them together well they can work as well if not better than all the shiny gizmos if they're just thrown together. You're changing A LOT in one go so expect to have some teething issues, especially as this is your first attempt at DIY tuning.

 

Didn't find your statement harsh at all. Just a project gun which I will take my time on. 

Overall just want better reliability at range and snappier trigger response. --- plus so it doesn't sound as 'doo doo' as it does currently when you shoot it compared to my other gear. 

 

- I am likely getting carried away with all the gears and piston stuff. So overall, I want reliability at range, snappier trigger. 
-- which I am expecting your response to be; get a mosfet in there + upgrade barrel and hop. (I will change the motor regardless ) 

 

Thanks friend

[Lozart]

29 minutes ago, davidf said:

 

Didn't find your statement harsh at all. Just a project gun which I will take my time on. 

Overall just want better reliability at range and snappier trigger response. --- plus so it doesn't sound as 'doo doo' as it does currently when you shoot it compared to my other gear. 

 

- I am likely getting carried away with all the gears and piston stuff. So overall, I want reliability at range, snappier trigger. 
-- which I am expecting your response to be; get a mosfet in there + upgrade barrel and hop. (I will change the motor regardless ) 

 

Thanks friend

 

 

Ok, so for me, yes I would say go for a programmable mosfet (I personally prefer the Aster because I have the app on my phone and I can program it and get diagnostics without having to remember how many times I flicked the selector and what colour light means what).

 

Consistency shot to shot is your friend when looking to improve performance at range so things like making sure you have a good airseal are more important than a shiny piston, as long as your compression parts are working well enough. My personal route would be:

• check your piston/cylinder airseal - take it out, put your finger over the cylinder head outlet and try to compress the cylinder. If it stops solid or at least gives you a good amount of resistance then it's fine, leave it alone. If it offers little to no resistance, it's garbage, change it out.
  • https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons-heads/xt-v2-v3-cylinder-piston-head-pom
  • https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons/xt-14-tooth-piston-blue
  • https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/cylinders/zci-stainless-steel-cylinder-4-5 or https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/cylinders/xt-cylinder-anti-heat-4-5 IF your cylinder is damaged or not the right vent positioning
• https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/nozzles/xt-m4-nozzle-aluminium better nozzle with an airseal o-ring
• CLEAN the inside of the gearbox and your existing gears
• refit and shim the gears properly to reduce friction/slop
• LUBRICATE your gearbox properly - ie not excessive amounts of grease, use the right sort of grease (Abbey LT2 for the mating surfaces of the gears, applied with a small paintbrush). Don't overdo it, any optical MOSFET will throw a hissy fit if you get grease on the sensors.
• Make sure to lightly lube the rubber sealing parts (piston head o-ring, nozzle o-ring) with silicone grease.
• Set up your mosfet of choice with a bit of precocking if you want to but make sure any settings you make are appropriate for the motor/gear combination you have. Unless you want absolute hair trigger response, 13:1 or 12:1 gears are not always necessary and can lead to pre-engagement issues.
• Better hop rubber and nub - the Maple Leaf combo mentioned above is pretty much the easiest route right now but be aware that the ML rubbers have quite long feed lips so bear that in mind if you start to get feeding issues.
• the new XT inner barrels are VERY good there is a particularly good deal on the 6.00mm ones at the minute https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/inner-barrels/xt-inner-barrel-aeg-600mm
• Use (and I cannot stress this enough) DECENT ammo.

I wouldn't necessarily say you need a super duper CNC hop unit but to say don't would be hypocritical of me (I have a few Maxx units and I'm looking at the Silent Industries Alpha one for a build too), but I have had perfectly good results from bog standard plastic hop units when paired with a good barrel and rubber. 

 

I would ABSOLUTELY recommend the XT motor over the Nuprol one https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/motors-parts/xt-high-torque-motor-22tpa-long-fan (mostly because he seems to be out of brushless ones for the minute). Alternatively you could look at the ASG Infinity CNC motors https://www.zerooneairsoft.com/products/ASG-Ultimate-Infinity-Motor-with-Long-Shaft-U-30000

 

Don't get caught up by the reddit and Faceache "experts" telling you that you have to short stroke/DSG/HPA the fuck out of everything and it all has to be made from CNC'd aircraft grade billet.

 

Hope this helps.

[ak2m4]

As @Lozart mentioned, I think your CORE model has a 460mm inner barrel as standard, presuming a full cylinder?  (you'll need to check).  If you move to something around 360mm then something like a 4/5 cylinder would be better.  

 

I just received a new stock of Outer Barrel parts, not sure how much the Laylax set is?