Sniper path feedback

[two_zero]

Edit: yes I know sniping isn't for everyone, I've been at it for a while

Never had an airsoft sniper, I kinda of want one. Just want to check if I am going about it the right way thou.

Since they tend to end up just being a mishmash of aftermarket party, I feel like buying a "premium brand" might be a bit of a waste of money? I am thinking of going the path of getting a VSR-10 clone*. I already plan to swap the barrel for a shorter one, the hop obviously, as well as having a DIY stock eventually.

So yea, any feedback on this plan?


* Taiwangun** recommended this one for me, any reason I should prefer a JG BAR10? https://www.taiwangun.com/sniper-rifle-spring/mb03ae-upgraded-version-520-fps-black-well

**is this still the preferred shop for EU residents?
 

Edited December 28, 2023 by two_zero

[Tackle]

Hey mate, didn't immediately recognise your username so thought you were a noob, shock horror when I checked your profile & see your more akin to a Chelsea pensioner in forum years lol😜. 

Jokes aside, getting in to sniping is a big step, your mindset & fieldcraft is just as important as your gun, maybe more so.

Whats been your playing style up to now, & types of gun you favour ?, I ask as when players have previously mentioned getting in to the sniper role, I'll usually recommend trying a hybrid role first, think a single shot dmr role using their longest most accurate gun & focusing on the fieldcraft (& patience) aspects, no point in shelling out good money on a rifle & possible upgrades if after 5 minutes of concealment or crawling, you want to run towards the firefights. 

[two_zero]

1 minute ago, Tackle said:

Hey mate, didn't immediately recognise your username so thought you were a noob, shock horror when I checked your profile & see your more akin to a Chelsea pensioner in forum years lol😜. 

Jokes aside, getting in to sniping is a big step, your mindset & fieldcraft is just as important as your gun, maybe more so.

Whats been your playing style up to now, & types of gun you favour ?, I ask as when players have previously mentioned getting in to the sniper role, I'll usually recommend trying a hybrid role first, think a single shot dmr role using their longest most accurate gun & focusing on the fieldcraft (& patience) aspects, no point in shelling out good money on a rifle & possible upgrades if after 5 minutes of concealment or crawling, you want to run towards the firefights. 

LMAOOO

na for reals thou I tend to recommend people to start off with a cm16 (are those still a thing?) with a scope and short mag, run it semi and wait between every shot and see how they enjoy it - if they love this style, grab a sniper and you still got an awesome spare/loaner/variety/backup.

that said - its time for me to add a bolt action to my loadout

[Impulse]

I'll preface this all by saying that my favourite bolt action platform is the Tanaka m700 system. While Tanaka may be incredibly hard to get now, KJW m700s are easier, but still not easy, to find and they're phenomenal rifles (I literally have 2, plus a Tanaka and they're my go-to bolt actions). However, I wouldn't advise buying one if you're just looking to get into sniping because they're incredibly fussy and require a lot of patience, since every game day you have to tweak them to make sure the power is where you want it, since temperature will affect power due to being powered by green gas. You can HPA them, but in my opinion it's impractical as you have to HPA tap the mags, meaning every time you reload you have to detach and reattach the hose, where a HPA VSR you don't have to do that.

 

With that said... In my opinion, the VSR platform is still king due to just how much stuff is out there for it. Some people love the SRS (I don't!), and apparently the Steyr Scout and the Tac41 are pretty decent, but the VSR10 platform still reigns supreme in my opinion due to the sheer amount of aftermarket parts. I also think it depends how much you're willing to get into the thick of it and how much you value certain things. Generally, buying an expensive TM VSR over a JG BAR10 or Cyma cm.701b isn't worth it as you're basically removing all the internals anyway, so why spend that extra £70 on a TM?

 

Having done multiple VSR builds, I would personally always go for the TM, even if I'm replacing everything inside. Part of it is that I think the G-Spec is the superior option over the regular rifle, and I don't think you can get a clone G-Spec rifle. The other part of it is the tiny fraction of a millimetre tolerances and slight quality of life differences. Firstly, the sling mounts on the JG are awful and I've had to loctite mine in. Secondly, not everything will fit perfectly in a clone rifle. I found that the 50rd Action Army magazines are very fussy with my JG BAR10 and I've found myself just running the regular 35rd TM magazines as the Action Army mags would sometimes have feeding issues, or they wouldn't click into place properly. That said, for 99% of people the clone ones are absolutely fine. I'm just very picky!

 

Also, when it comes to "sniping", @Tackle is completely right in saying that fieldcraft and mindset is more important than your rifle. I've played the sniper role with (a lot of) bolt actions, DMRs and regular rifles, and very little changes in how I play. It's more about the stealth and picking your shots than having a 2.3J bolt action with an MED. Also, if you go the whole way into it, it's honestly more about observation than shooting; one of the best sniper games I've had involved me not firing a single shot all game, but I was concealed and constantly calling out enemy movements over the radio to some other guys on my team, so we always knew what the other team was doing. Even had a patrol of about 8 of them walk right in front of me and one crouched down about 50cm to my right. When it comes to actually shooting, the words of some German guys I used to play airsoft with in Spain will always resonate with me as I feel they encapsulated airsoft sniping so well in one simple sentence: "it's not how many you hit, but how you hit them."

 

You'll never (well, incredibly rarely to the point where it's a statistical anomaly) get as many hits in game using a bolt action rifle as you would with a regular AEG, but every hit you do get will feel so much better!

Edited December 29, 2023 by Impulse

[Tackle]

17 hours ago, two_zero said:

LMAOOO

na for reals thou I tend to recommend people to start off with a cm16 (are those still a thing?) with a scope and short mag, run it semi and wait between every shot and see how they enjoy it - if they love this style, grab a sniper and you still got an awesome spare/loaner/variety/backup.

that said - its time for me to add a bolt action to my loadout

LOL, great minds & all that👍. 

Out of interest I saw you mention on an ad that your no longer UK, whereabouts are you located, & what's the Airsoft scene there ? 

[two_zero]

2 hours ago, Tackle said:

LOL, great minds & all that👍. 

Out of interest I saw you mention on an ad that your no longer UK, whereabouts are you located, & what's the Airsoft scene there ? 

Sweden. Organized events tends to be a bunch of dudes in multicam with Systemas claiming they can hear the bbs bouncing of their kits but in reality they never notice when hit - same as everywhere I suppose 🤷🏻‍♀️

When I was active we used to just fill a couple of cars on the weekends and head for the forest or some abandoned site and do our thing. I don't like bureaucracy ^^

 

3 hours ago, Impulse said:

Generally, buying an expensive TM VSR over a JG BAR10 or Cyma cm.701b isn't worth it as you're basically removing all the internals anyway, so why spend that extra £70 on a TM?

 

Having done multiple VSR builds, I would personally always go for the TM, even if I'm replacing everything inside. Part of it is that I think the G-Spec is the superior option over the regular rifle, and I don't think you can get a clone G-Spec rifle. The other part of it is the tiny fraction of a millimetre tolerances and slight quality of life differences. Firstly, the sling mounts on the JG are awful and I've had to loctite mine in. Secondly, not everything will fit perfectly in a clone rifle. I found that the 50rd Action Army magazines are very fussy with my JG BAR10 and I've found myself just running the regular 35rd TM magazines as the Action Army mags would sometimes have feeding issues, or they wouldn't click into place properly. That said, for 99% of people the clone ones are absolutely fine. I'm just very picky!

This answered the question

  

3 hours ago, Impulse said:

Also, when it comes to "sniping", @Tackle is completely right in saying that fieldcraft and mindset is more important than your rifle. I've played the sniper role with (a lot of) bolt actions, DMRs and regular rifles, and very little changes in how I play. It's more about the stealth and picking your shots than having a 2.3J bolt action with an MED. Also, if you go the whole way into it, it's honestly more about observation than shooting; one of the best sniper games I've had involved me not firing a single shot all game, but I was concealed and constantly calling out enemy movements over the radio to some other guys on my team, so we always knew what the other team was doing. Even had a patrol of about 8 of them walk right in front of me and one crouched down about 50cm to my right. When it comes to actually shooting, the words of some German guys I used to play airsoft with in Spain will always resonate with me as I feel they encapsulated airsoft sniping so well in one simple sentence: "it's not how many you hit, but how you hit them."

 

You'll never (well, incredibly rarely to the point where it's a statistical anomaly) get as many hits in game using a bolt action rifle as you would with a regular AEG, but every hit you do get will feel so much better!

I do appreciate this but I am very aware of it also- see my forum stats and this reply 

Either way it is more about adding VSR platform to my loadout than anything else ^^ and I do appreciate your help!

Edited December 29, 2023 by two_zero

[Rogerborg]

On 28/12/2023 at 18:16, two_zero said:

I feel like buying a "premium brand" might be a bit of a waste of money?

 

I'd say quite the opposite.  Having gone down the "upgrade" route on a VSR-ish base, I'd say that you'll end up paying more for a usable, reliable gun than if you just buy (e.g.) a Novritsch SSG10, or Silverback TAC-41.  Sure, you can play with the VSR at various stages of "upgrade", but you'll always be wearing out sears and stoppers, hitting the limit of your hop, and chasing a smoother bolt pull. It's fun to do, but ultimately neither cheaper nor faster than just buying something that's genuinely usable out of the box.

[AK47frizzle]

I love sniping but for a different reason to most people. For me, the point of getting a sniper rifle is simply to outrange AEGs. I play the exact same aggressive, run-amok style as I would with an AEG but further away. It's fun because you get people trying to duel you 50m away and watch as their BBs drop before your feet, and you can still accurately pick them out no problem. But of course, stealth can be a fun option too.

 

Contrary to what everyone says, i'd recommend getting a "shoot-good-out-da-box" sniper rifle because not wasting time and effort on fiddling about with compatability parts is valuable, especially with the hop which can take forever to get right if you don't have a personal range (waiting every two weeks to test once on a game day, and have it not work as predicted is painful). The least expensive option seems to be the (yes really) novvy ssg stuff, then followed by the TAC41P at £372 from firesupport. Then everyone seems to praise the steyr scout at £400. At £400+ there's the SRS and the new B&T SPR300 which I plan to get a hold of soon. Probably some more out there.

 

But, it is up to you.

[two_zero]

5 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

I'd say quite the opposite.  Having gone down the "upgrade" route on a VSR-ish base, I'd say that you'll end up paying more for a usable, reliable gun than if you just buy (e.g.) a Novritsch SSG10, or Silverback TAC-41.  Sure, you can play with the VSR at various stages of "upgrade", but you'll always be wearing out sears and stoppers, hitting the limit of your hop, and chasing a smoother bolt pull. It's fun to do, but ultimately neither cheaper nor faster than just buying something that's genuinely usable out of the box.

 

5 hours ago, AK47frizzle said:

I love sniping but for a different reason to most people. For me, the point of getting a sniper rifle is simply to outrange AEGs. I play the exact same aggressive, run-amok style as I would with an AEG but further away. It's fun because you get people trying to duel you 50m away and watch as their BBs drop before your feet, and you can still accurately pick them out no problem. But of course, stealth can be a fun option too.

 

Contrary to what everyone says, i'd recommend getting a "shoot-good-out-da-box" sniper rifle because not wasting time and effort on fiddling about with compatability parts is valuable, especially with the hop which can take forever to get right if you don't have a personal range (waiting every two weeks to test once on a game day, and have it not work as predicted is painful). The least expensive option seems to be the (yes really) novvy ssg stuff, then followed by the TAC41P at £372 from firesupport. Then everyone seems to praise the steyr scout at £400. At £400+ there's the SRS and the new B&T SPR300 which I plan to get a hold of soon. Probably some more out there.

 

But, it is up to you.

Are these VSR10 compatible or are all of them their own systems?

[Rogerborg]

7 hours ago, two_zero said:

Are these VSR10 compatible or are all of them their own systems?

 

The SSG10 is VSR-10 based, but with a unique trigger box. It's a case of "why don't all triggers work like this?"

 

Silverback have gone their own way. I went for the TAC-41 because it has a TDC dial hop, larger magazines, quick-change spring, and I slightly prefer the ergonomics. However, the SSG10 really does make a good argument for itself if you prefer VSRs.

[two_zero]

8 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

The SSG10 is VSR-10 based, but with a unique trigger box. It's a case of "why don't all triggers work like this?"

 

Silverback have gone their own way. I went for the TAC-41 because it has a TDC dial hop, larger magazines, quick-change spring, and I slightly prefer the ergonomics. However, the SSG10 really does make a good argument for itself if you prefer VSRs.

Thank you!

If the ergos are stock/furniture related then they aren't really an issue as I plan to make my own

[Speedy Sloth]

As someone who's upgraded an type96, I can't say it was worth it over getting a good ootb rifle. When your upgrading your always chasing the next upgrade part or troubleshooting something it seems.

 

Go back 3-4 years and their wasn't really any decent ootb choices. But nowadays with silverback, ASG/Modify and Nov having good field ready options the upgrade path is harder to justify for a lot of players.

 

If you want 100% perfection than building and months of tinkering is your only way, if you are happy with 90-95% than just buy a high end ootb option. Resale on high end is generally better than a custom build if you change your mind as well.

Edited January 1 by Speedy Sloth
Spelling

[two_zero]

On 31/12/2023 at 00:07, Speedy Sloth said:

As someone who's upgraded an type96, I can't say it was worth it over getting a good ootb rifle. When your upgrading your always chasing the next upgrade part or troubleshooting something it seems.

 

Go back 3-4 years and their want really any decent ootb choices. But nowadays with silverback, ASG/Modify and Nov having good field ready options the upgrade path is harder to justify for a lot of players.

 

If you want 100% perfection than building and months of tinkering is your only way, if you are happy with 90-95% than just buy a high end ootb option. Resale on high end is generally better than a custom build if you change your mind as well.

 

things have changed since I knew anything at all about airsoft snipers - thanks!!

 

well, as I dont have that kind of money at this moment I guess I have to wait^^

Edited January 1 by two_zero

[The_Lord_Poncho]

On 30/12/2023 at 23:07, Speedy Sloth said:

As someone who's upgraded an type96, I can't say it was worth it over getting a good ootb rifle. When your upgrading your always chasing the next upgrade part or troubleshooting something it seems.

Kind of my experience too - I bought a Well L96 @£100, then an upgraded hop unit  at £20 (didn't fit), another upgraded hop unit at circa £40, new bucking £8, new inner barrel £30, metal trigger box £30  (didn't fit), new spring, piston, guide £30, and finally a new Cylinder when the original one failed after a game or two  -£80. In due course, the original plastic trigger will fail, and then i'm into an £80 replacement.

 

Total spend - £340 so far, and will soon be £420 when the inevitable happens to the trigger. As an example, Patrolbase currently have the Nov SSG96mk2 for (an entirely coincidental) £340, which already has all of those 'upgrades', a trigger box that is unlikely to break, and the added benefit of a TDC hop. Plus you retain your consumer rights with it. 

 

I'm not sure if i purchased a lemon in the original Well L96 (albeit internet based chatter seems to indicate not), but it wasn't really useable in its stock form  - generally outranged and outshot by most of the cheapest AEGs. It's shooting nicely now with all the upgrades, and there is a sense of satisfaction from doing it yourself.

[Sewdhull]

I have a well l96, which has been fine, I haven't used it for years now tho.

Most of what needed doing was DIY, with some trigger parts bought in steel and some reinforcement of the cylinder.

I improved the tolerances on the hop and the gun generally and it was pretty good out to 70m, the length of my testing field.

In game ppl were never that far away so it became pointless, you need the right field for sniping.

Back then the heaviest bbs generally available were .4 or 45.

 

I enjoyed the gun. Probably one of the cheapest I've had and I like cheap guns.

[Rogerborg]

Oh, sure, I had a Well MB-03 which I upgraded to be half decent, including some DIY shimming and a TDC hop.  But the bolt pull went janky, and the uPgRaDeD steel sear chewed up the aluminium piston, and the stopper wallered out the trigger box, and...

 

You can go down the uPgRaDe path, it's still viable.  It's just that I feel that you're always chasing the next bit of performance that you imagine might be there, when there are now some viable options that only need a spring swap to get them tuned for your field (and it's a very easy swap indeed on a TAC-41).

[Sewdhull]

Back  in the day most stuff was DIY, now you can buy stuff you don't need to mess with. Depends on your skills outlook and wallet depth.

Edited January 2 by Sewdhull