Mortars - safe for airsoft?

[SEAR]

Hi all,

 

I have experience with anti-tank guns and similar weapon systems firing powder-filled projectiles at flat trajectory. Sadly, such weapons are no go on airsoft due to general absence of full-face masks.

 

How about mortars on similar tech? Their projectiles are falling right from above and be gentle enough to not to hurt even in case of accidental hit. Is this something that could be accepted here and there? I make strictly non-pyro stuff. The powder fill is mainly to highlight the impact point and enable virtual kill radius to be applied.

[Tommikka]

3 minutes ago, SEAR said:

Hi all,

 

I have experience with anti-tank guns and similar weapon systems firing powder-filled projectiles at flat trajectory. Sadly, such weapons are no go on airsoft due to general absence of full-face masks.

 

How about mortars on similar tech? Their projectiles are falling right from above and be gentle enough to not to hurt even in case of accidental hit. Is this something that could be accepted here and there? I make strictly non-pyro stuff. The powder fill is mainly to highlight the impact point and enable virtual kill radius to be applied.

It will depend on the site, and also their insurance 

 

You would need to approach some sites ask and show them

 

For unusual items it may be a matter of providing them as site effects

[Tackle]

Probably unlikely, ultimately its gonna depend on how heavy the projectile is & how much force it lands with, nobody wants to get wankered by a bag of flour dropping 100ft or more. 

The other issue may be insurance etc, even if you can show game organisers that the impact energy is  negligibly low, their insurers may have a different view of relatively unproven "homemade" products ? 

[Rogerborg]

TAG launchers already serve this purpose. As noted, some sites are OK with them, some want nothing to do with them.  Anything that's lobbing a substantial projectile for a useful distance will be operating at higher energies than shooting glasses are rated for, and it'll only take one person looking up to see what's coming in to illustrate why this is a safety and insurance problem.

[Cannonfodder]

Apart from the obvious issues already raised I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be pissed off at the thought of having to clean a load of powder out of their guns and gear at the end of a game day. Also I'm pretty sure the vast majority of outdoor sites are woodland so it would severely limit their usefulness 

[Chev Chelios]

Taginn sold one very briefly but went off the website a while ago. Can only see it being practical at events but must admit the thought of calling in arty does wet the willy.

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

TAG launchers already serve this purpose. As noted, some sites are OK with them, some want nothing to do with them.  Anything that's lobbing a substantial projectile for a useful distance will be operating at higher energies than shooting glasses are rated for, and it'll only take one person looking up to see what's coming in to illustrate why this is an safety and insurance problem.

 

[concretesnail]

I have a 40mm launcher which I use tlfx mortar rounds. There's a couple of sites near me that allows the use, they also happen to allow tag use. 

They address the the direct impact issue by increasing the kill radius so they can be aimed away more but still be effective in play. 

 

I haven't used the tag launcher but mine is great fun but they are very situational, and it isn't something that I'd take to every game. Sim days and events only really.

 

Regards the weight of the rnd, the mortars I have weight about the same as a tlfx multi-bang though that would be significantly reduced once its launched. So any thing that weighs less surely won't be an issue. I think the biggest problem you'll find is sites granting permission if they haven't seen one before and it would depend very much on the specifics of the sites insurance cover. 

The other issue is that if it doesn't make a bang how many people are going to notice it coming down and wait to see if it eliminates them from play. 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by concretesnail

[Rogerborg]

33 minutes ago, concretesnail said:

They address the the direct impact issue by increasing the kill radius so they can be aimed away more but still be effective in play. 

 

They can be, but accidents happen, and airsofters gonna airsoft. This is from a US event where TAG rounds were to be used strictly only for vehicle kills, and not aimed directly at the vehicle.  And yet...

 

 

 

 

Granted, a mortar with some sort of mount that guarantees a high elevation would ameliorate that risk. Right up to the point where someone stands over it and cops a round heading upwards.

 

[C-Diddy]

from 6:10

 

[concretesnail]

39 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

They can be, but accidents happen, and airsofters gonna airsoft. This is from a US event where TAG rounds were to be used strictly only for vehicle kills, and not aimed directly at the vehicle.  And yet...

 

 

 

 

Granted, a mortar with some sort of mount that guarantees a high elevation would ameliorate that risk. Right up to the point where someone stands over it and cops a round heading upwards.

 

True accidents can happen, the aim away method is one sites way of mitigating some of the risk. I reality all we can do is tackle the basics where reasonably practicable and where people can be advised and have appropriate responses planned for possible events. That does put an emphasis on the site to have plans in place and acted upon as well as players acting in a responsible fashion, which has never failed on an airsoft field clearly.... hold on....

 

The picture I guess is from a milsim where they player is popped out the roof and taken a tag to the nose.

Edited September 18, 2023 by concretesnail

[Rogerborg]

14 minutes ago, concretesnail said:

The picture I guess is from a milsim where they player is popped out the roof and taken a tag to the nose.

 

That's my understanding, although I'm not sure if he popped out or was already visible when the "accident" happened.  Apparently he rubbed some dirt in it and kept playing.

 

Informed consent does matter.  If you know that projectiles capable of doing that are going to be flying around, and are prepared accept that risk, fair enough.  At a regular skirmish day though, nope, nope, and nope again.

[Cannonfodder]

2 hours ago, concretesnail said:

I have a 40mm launcher which I use tlfx mortar rounds. There's a couple of sites near me that allows the use, they also happen to allow tag use

The difference is that the tlfx and tag rounds are professionally made to QC standards, rather than the airsoft version of Wallace and Grommet knocking stuff together in their shed

[concretesnail]

3 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

The difference is that the tlfx and tag rounds are professionally made to QC standards, rather than the airsoft version of Wallace and Grommet knocking stuff together in their shed

True 

4 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

That's my understanding, although I'm not sure if he popped out or was already visible when the "accident" happened.  Apparently he rubbed some dirt in it and kept playing.

 

Informed consent does matter.  If you know that projectiles capable of doing that are going to be flying around, and are prepared accept that risk, fair enough.  At a regular skirmish day though, nope, nope, and nope again.

 

At a skirmish day I'd agree that they aren't really worth it, where events and sims generally have a more experienced playerbase.