Dsg Wanker Gun Appreciation Thread

[Alimcd]

Deliberately incendiary title aside, I was curious to see if anyone had ended up with similar builds to my lockdown boredom builds. There's a lot of negativity towards anything that has a dual sector gear inside and I wanted to see if my builds are the anomaly or what a few of us have ended up using. Where I play is a woodland site, with woodland problems. It's not an unusual issue to find that branches/leaves or otherwise affect your hit probability so burst modes have always appealed to me as the best solution. For this end, a lower speed DSG set up and ETU seemed to be the best option.

 

With plenty of time to tinker over lockdown, I ordered an SHS DSG and V2 tappet as an experiment. The resulting AEG has a ASG 22000 motor, normal ratio gearset, M160 spring and a 9 tooth SHS lightweight piston. I'm getting a reliable 35/36rps at around 320fps and the responsiveness of the build is superb. The ETU in that build is a Jefftron Leviathan that has allowed me to control what the build does; in this case, safe/semi/5rd burst. This strikes me as a fairly ideal AEG set up for woodland use. I was so happy with the outcome (and still had time on my hands) so I ordered a SHS DSG and V3 Tappet did basically the same build with an LCT 74uN. I slapped a Gate Merf 3.2 in the stock, set it to a 140ms burst and now have an AK that gives me the same safe/5rd burst/semi as my M4 build with a similar 36.5rps@340fps - EXCEPT just as with the M4 it CANT go full auto AnD MaKe DeM ChEaTeRs PaY

 

I understand the hate towards high ROF builds as there is potential for a wanker to really hose someone down (even if you're not a wanker a slow trigger press on full auto with a 40RPS DSG could send 20+ bb's!) but is there anyone else who's using a DSG/ETU combo for a tight semi/burst build as opposed to going the OC airsoft way? I'm hoping that there's a few of us who've built some DSG based platforms with the intention being control as opposed to being a dick. If so, I'd love to see some other people's builds as food for thought for future projects. Let's be honest, it's basically techie porn.

 

To get it started, this was my first attempt: 

 

Retro Arms Split V2 Gearbox

SHS 21.4mm Nozzle

Rocket M160 Spring

SHS lightweight piston, metal rack taken down to 9 teeth

ASG POM pistonhead, bearing removed

SHS Cylinderhead

SHS DSG + V2 Tappet plate

SHS 1/2 Cylinder

Jefftron Leviathan

ASG Infinity 22000 Motor

 

I'm very curious to see what the consensus is on this sort of build, whether the mere mention of a sector gear with extra teeth makes me a total wanker or whether it makes a few other woodland players think "That'd be pretty handy, actually". Could also be a decent knowledge pool for anyone thinking about a similar build, I destroyed a few pistons figuring out what I was doing (RetroArms 9 tooth POM pistons seem to be made of cheese, just take teetth off of a SHS) and was surprised at how fussy tappet fins are in a DSG context

[Tackle]

Step 1. Apt thread title ✅

[PopRocket123]

My dad built this thing, capable of 45rps. However because of the stupidly short barrel it's hideously inaccurate and thus is balanced. He accidentally hosed someone once but they took it in good humour as it's more like a wall of BBs than a laser. I've used it basically as a one man volley fire machine, arching the BBs to hose down large areas where an enemy might be hiding. 

[Shamal]

12 minutes ago, PopRocket123 said:

My dad built this thing, capable of 45rps. However because of the stupidly short barrel it's hideously inaccurate and thus is balanced. He accidentally hosed someone once but they took it in good humour as it's more like a wall of BBs than a laser. I've used it basically as a one man volley fire machine, arching the BBs to hose down large areas where an enemy might be hiding. 

Cripes! Was it connected to a backpack full of bb's by a tube!

Lol

Regards 

[PopRocket123]

9 minutes ago, Shamal said:

Cripes! Was it connected to a backpack full of bb's by a tube!

Lol

Regards 

Nope. 900 round fat mag. 

[Alimcd]

Poprocket, I don’t know who’s M4 wanker gun is uglier. It’s a close run race!  

 

My AK wanker gun seems almost tasteful in comparison

[Adolf Hamster]

it's a tricky one, is it truly a wanker gun if the person using it isn't being a wanker?

 

i'll confess that i've done the whole hpa hose machine before, what with the local sites approach to rps being whatever you can get the gun to do.

 

but it's never really been my thing, good for punching through hedges when folk think they're safe but i'm much more of an accuracy guy.

 

that said, high speed gears low (relatively speaking) speed motor is a combo i'm wanting to give a go more for eliminating gear whine than straight up rof.

[leadly]

I really don't know what some of these words even mean but the stats and guns look pretty decent! 😂

[Adolf Hamster]

Just now, leadly said:

I really don't know what some of these words even mean but the stats and guns look pretty decent! 😂

 

dsg= dual sector gear, only pulls half the length of a standard sector gear meaning you're limited on barrel length, but means you get very high rates of fire (in the op's case 35 rounds per second)

 

hpa=high pressure air, essentially you're running a paintball gun tank with a regulator, with the right system you can run as fast as the magazine can feed (45-50rps or even higher)

 

 

problem is, at that rate of fire even the shortest burst is going to send 2 or 3 rounds downrange which isn't going to make you popular with the guy on the receiving end.

[Alimcd]

I had the M4 running at just over 50rps with a 35,000 motor. The motor was pulling so much current and getting so hot that it was little more than an experiment in if it would work. Made a hell of a noise, 50rps/M160/Noveske amplifier... The high torque motor and 18:1 gears (well, 9:1) keep the draw low and essentially make for a fairly low stress build as far as the motor is concerned. 

 

The main benefit I see with the DSG is how noticeable the improvement in semi auto response is. I typically play most games in semi, you can really feel the difference in how quickly the piston is released as it's essentially short stroked by 7 teeth! Whether it's expectation bias, it certainly FEELS like it plays better

 

 

[Tackle]

25 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

dsg= dual sector gear, only pulls half the length of a standard sector gear meaning you're limited on barrel length, but means you get very high rates of fire (in the op's case 35 rounds per second)

 

hpa=high pressure air, essentially you're running a paintball gun tank with a regulator, with the right system you can run as fast as the magazine can feed (45-50rps or even higher)

 

 

problem is, at that rate of fire even the shortest burst is going to send 2 or 3 rounds downrange which isn't going to make you popular with the guy on the receiving end.

Lol, thanks, in 20 years I never actually took the time to find out what DSG meant, sounds like the French mi6, just knew DSG=Wanker.

That said, @PopRocket123's looks great, I might have to knock one together just for the craic, for when some pleb isn't taking the the one or two carefully placed shots I usually rely on 😈

[Sitting Duck]

DSG' are highly over rated imho...

 

Now 40rps is coz of using a very fast motor which is dumb

and is a high stress DSG' it is fucking dumb

But not as dumb as G&G making a gun full auto only

 

But imho they are wanker guns

And you can obtain similar rof if doing a 13:1 & SHS HT 30K build

 

People might say ahhh but trigger response is better...

Yes we'll you can do pre-cock to get near that response

Ahhh but you can pre-cock the DSG to get even greater response

Oh FFS, just how small is your penis you are trying to compensate for

 

Now no offense it is a bit of fun & a challenge

Just getting that box closed up with a m160 spring

 

But on reflection I don't rate them myself

 

There are possibly two scenarios where I could see me using them

 

If I had say a cheap base gun like a 74 like the CM.521

Or maybe a G36c like JG - both guns with a 223-250mm barrel

If I wanted to go nuts on a budget changing as little as possible

Then using strong cheap box, drop the DSG in, metal rack piston

Basic MOSFET and if lucky the std motor might pull a m140 on 11.1v

 

Change as little as possible, probably total cost £20 to £25, £30 tops

(Probably include a steel COL, but change as little as possible)

 

The other instance would be in Germany where full auto is 250fps

and on the low power, you can't increase rof much or get PME

Which is likely one of the reasons behind the HC05

In which you build a DSG' with say m130, get high rof even stock motor

at their low 245fps or whatever without risk of PME

 

The issue with DSG's is that they draw high amps

So to lower that you use a slower torque motor which lowers the rof

AND when all things taken into account...

 

You get similar results from a 13:1 SS 3 Teeth 30k

To say a DSG on a 22tpa, plus the 13:1 SS can be applied to most guns

Not just limited to say 250mm barrels like a DSG

 

The 13:1 build can be run on 7.4v without being a wanker @ 24rps

Or a mild 11.1v maybe, but PME can take place at near 40rps

If you get say 20rps on 7.4v then 32rps on a beefy 11.1v should be OK

 

You get a similar rof, not quite the exact same response perhaps

But way better than stock, without the higher amp draw of DSG's

(plus without the insane spring, tappet timings of a DSG etc...)

 

I think most capable people who have an itch should build one

Just to get it out of their system - I really do believe this

 

But after you have built one & a few "normal" snappy SSG's

I reckon 9/10 people will likely come to the same conclusion as I did

 

DSG's in general are not really that practical

& yeah they are basically a wanker gun

which on reflection, I'll stick to snappy 13:1 builds instead

 

*** Disclaimer ***

 

This is just my personal opinion, I said if you have an itch - scratch it

But overall if you take your time a 13:1 SS build gets near a DSG

Using a m120 say will be easier to close up box blah blah blah

 

Some will agree, some will disagree - still very proud of doing the HC05

I learnt a LOT from it

 

The point of me posting is not to rain on anybody's DSG parade

(Honest)

 

But more to point out, that you should only scratch that itch

If you very competent and have to scratch it so to speak

 

If you build a couple of good 13:1's

Then with the experience you gain build a DSG

I think most people will say - yeah I'll stick to the 13:1 stuff

 

Which to some reading this thinking I gotta have/build one

Hmmm no you don't HAVE to build one

Unless you got a really really bad itch as I said

[Alimcd]

5 minutes ago, Sitting Duck said:

 

 

But not as dumb as G&G making a gun full auto only

That's just daft! I get full auto only on an LMG but not on that!

 

Getting the M160 into the RetroArms was easy, QSC and all. It was a bit trickier getting one into the LCT gearbox, luckily I was born with three arms so I could hold the gearbox, push in the spring and give the ARL the middle finger as it fell out again and again all at the same time.

[Sitting Duck]

24 minutes ago, Alimcd said:

That's just daft! I get full auto only on an LMG but not on that!

 

Getting the M160 into the RetroArms was easy, QSC and all. It was a bit trickier getting one into the LCT gearbox, luckily I was born with three arms so I could hold the gearbox, push in the spring and give the ARL the middle finger as it fell out again and again all at the same time.

 

The Yanks over say at Airsoft society forums, pulling 400fps DSG's

Have to drill the box and use cable ties to hold the m180 springs down

Whilst they close up the regular box

 

The FH is such a short barrel it needs a bit more powerful spring

So it REALLY was a struggle to close the box up like a normal one on my own

Took many attempts, hands now greasy and once it was closed the tappet spring wasn't attached

So have to open it up and do it all over again -aaarggghhh

 

It was real challenge, was very pleased with results but still a wanker gun on reflection

Actually it is a fucking wanker gun coz no semi

In hindsight I should have just gone SHS DSG & fitted COL - but hey ho improved upon it

(Even with STD motor before fitting the mental motor)

***  Don't buy a FH HC05 and find out no semi like I did **"

 

I think the real accomplishment is squeezing the most efficiency out of a box

By changing as little as possible or

keepingthe amps as low as possible when making a gun ultra snappy

 

But as said if you got that DSG itch, then sometimes you gotta scratch it

We done though - it takes some time and skill and you can say you've done it

[Shamal]

2 hours ago, Sitting Duck said:

DSG' are highly over rated imho...

 

Now 40rps is coz of using a very fast motor which is dumb

and is a high stress DSG' it is fucking dumb

But not as dumb as G&G making a gun full auto only

 

But imho they are wanker guns

And you can obtain similar rof if doing a 13:1 & SHS HT 30K build

 

People might say ahhh but trigger response is better...

Yes we'll you can do pre-cock to get near that response

Ahhh but you can pre-cock the DSG to get even greater response

Oh FFS, just how small is your penis you are trying to compensate for

 

Now no offense it is a bit of fun & a challenge

Just getting that box closed up with a m160 spring

 

But on reflection I don't rate them myself

 

There are possibly two scenarios where I could see me using them

 

If I had say a cheap base gun like a 74 like the CM.521

Or maybe a G36c like JG - both guns with a 223-250mm barrel

If I wanted to go nuts on a budget changing as little as possible

Then using strong cheap box, drop the DSG in, metal rack piston

Basic MOSFET and if lucky the std motor might pull a m140 on 11.1v

 

Change as little as possible, probably total cost £20 to £25, £30 tops

(Probably include a steel COL, but change as little as possible)

 

The other instance would be in Germany where full auto is 250fps

and on the low power, you can't increase rof much or get PME

Which is likely one of the reasons behind the HC05

In which you build a DSG' with say m130, get high rof even stock motor

at their low 245fps or whatever without risk of PME

 

The issue with DSG's is that they draw high amps

So to lower that you use a slower torque motor which lowers the rof

AND when all things taken into account...

 

You get similar results from a 13:1 SS 3 Teeth 30k

To say a DSG on a 22tpa, plus the 13:1 SS can be applied to most guns

Not just limited to say 250mm barrels like a DSG

 

The 13:1 build can be run on 7.4v without being a wanker @ 24rps

Or a mild 11.1v maybe, but PME can take place at near 40rps

If you get say 20rps on 7.4v then 32rps on a beefy 11.1v should be OK

 

You get a similar rof, not quite the exact same response perhaps

But way better than stock, without the higher amp draw of DSG's

(plus without the insane spring, tappet timings of a DSG etc...)

 

I think most capable people who have an itch should build one

Just to get it out of their system - I really do believe this

 

But after you have built one & a few "normal" snappy SSG's

I reckon 9/10 people will likely come to the same conclusion as I did

 

DSG's in general are not really that practical

& yeah they are basically a wanker gun

which on reflection, I'll stick to snappy 13:1 builds instead

 

*** Disclaimer ***

 

This is just my personal opinion, I said if you have an itch - scratch it

But overall if you take your time a 13:1 SS build gets near a DSG

Using a m120 say will be easier to close up box blah blah blah

 

Some will agree, some will disagree - still very proud of doing the HC05

I learnt a LOT from it

 

The point of me posting is not to rain on anybody's DSG parade

(Honest)

 

But more to point out, that you should only scratch that itch

If you very competent and have to scratch it so to speak

 

If you build a couple of good 13:1's

Then with the experience you gain build a DSG

I think most people will say - yeah I'll stick to the 13:1 stuff

 

Which to some reading this thinking I gotta have/build one

Hmmm no you don't HAVE to build one

Unless you got a really really bad itch as I said

Have given this a 'like' just for the sheer bloody length of it!

Writers cramp comes to mind lol

Regards 

[Adolf Hamster]

2 hours ago, Sitting Duck said:

People might say ahhh but trigger response is better...

Yes we'll you can do pre-cock to get near that response

Ahhh but you can pre-cock the DSG to get even greater response

Oh FFS, just how small is your penis you are trying to compensate for

 

doesnt matter how much you do to improve the trigger response of an aeg it will never be the same level as an hpa or gbb

 

better off accepting good enough (ie a reasonably mild auto setup and a precocking mosfet to deal with semi).

[Got Milk?]

I own a dsg and my trigger response is on par if not faster than my hpa guns even more so when I activate binary trigger on the titan 

[Alimcd]

30 minutes ago, Got Milk? said:

I own a dsg and my trigger response is on par if not faster than my hpa guns even more so when I activate binary trigger on the titan 

Careful, binary triggers get people  on here a bit twitchy

 

I wonder what they’ll be like when they see my Tri-nary trigger!

[Adolf Hamster]

33 minutes ago, Got Milk? said:

I own a dsg and my trigger response is on par if not faster than my hpa guns even more so when I activate binary trigger on the titan 

 

when i say trigger response i mean the time between pulling the trigger and the gun going pew as opposed to how quickly you can activate the trigger.

[Got Milk?]

Pretty much instant with pre cock 100%

[Adolf Hamster]

53 minutes ago, Got Milk? said:

Pretty much instant with pre cock 100%

 

for practical purposes yes.

 

but this thread isn't really about practicality because good enough can be achieved with a much milder build.

[Alimcd]

I don’t get the appeal of pre-cock. I’m a space cadet at the best of times, the odds that I’d store something with the spring under tension are way too high, hence going DSG to get the fast response without having to precock the piston 

[Adolf Hamster]

27 minutes ago, Alimcd said:

I don’t get the appeal of pre-cock. I’m a space cadet at the best of times, the odds that I’d store something with the spring under tension are way too high, hence going DSG to get the fast response without having to precock the piston 

 

must admit i do kinda wish more guns had the ability to de-tension them.

 

can always burst on auto till it gets to that sweet spot of being unsprung.

[Alimcd]

7 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

must admit i do kinda wish more guns had the ability to de-tension them.

On the AK build, I put in a Modify ARL for this very reason. The Modify ones have a flat head slot on them so you can detension the spring. Total faff though as you have to remove the pistol grip to get to it...

 

Not figured out a non-kludgy way of doing it on the M4. A M160 under tension can be quite exciting if you aren’t expecting it, even with a QSC!

[PopRocket123]

3 minutes ago, Alimcd said:

On the AK build, I put in a Modify ARL for this very reason. The Modify ones have a flat head slot on them so you can detension the spring. Total faff though as you have to remove the pistol grip to get to it...

 

Not figured out a non-kludgy way of doing it on the M4. A M160 under tension can be quite exciting if you aren’t expecting it, even with a QSC!

I guess if you don't mind having a 3-5mm hole in your grip you could drill a hole to get a jewelers screwdriver in there to decock it. Not the most elegant solution but it's not the most elegant gun.