Large Events in the UK

[Tommikka]

PS the bit that I forgot

 

The game is not about winning or losing.  People would rather win then lose (but winning against a crap side is not winning)

If one side is winning all day long then it’s boring for them, and demoralising for the losing side

 

Good organisers will manipulate game flow, adding advantage to losers, making it harder for winners.  In extreme cases be ready to totally change missions - and plan a contingency in advance to allow that.  **

Balance out the game, watch if there are players that are unhappy (I don’t care if you’re a miserable git, but if an entire side is moaning then something’s gone badly wrong)

 

 

** the same goes for commanders.  At NvS there was a tradition of the South losing, one year the commander put in a whole command structure, handed out command radios on their own frequency, had his wife at respawn handing out maps and telling people where the action was, key objectives and sending the keen ones to the command bunker for missions

This broughtsucceafull missions all day and a win for the south.

But as a ‘sub commander I knew the contingency plan.  I wanted us to lose, because the plan was that he would pick up a mega phone, play the ‘Ride for the valkyries’ and walk clockwise around the site ..... southern players would be collected as he passed to build a force and lose by gunning down everyone in sight 

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, clumpyedge said:

I paid to sit in a building majority of a weekend on overwatch and didn't fire my gun once but I guess like I think your'e saying you need to have the players with the right mind set for that type of game. I've said it numerous times before airsoft isn't just about shooting guns for some people/games sometimes its about immersing yourself in a story or a role (yes even at a skirmish to some extent!) and playing that role to the best of your ability (not just at milsims) which again in my opinion adds a whole other side to the game which for the vast majority is outside the remit of turn up, shoot, go home.

To which I’d reply your the kind of player that can save an event because you ARE prepared to do it , but a lot won’t hence I said it’s unachievable not impossible to have a 100% realistic chain , you will get most at a themed event willing to follow orders (but again to various degrees) but ultimately I still don’t believe you ever will be able to get an event running as a truly realistic military simulation , BUT if players are happy with this then I do think keep them rolling along and as long as end of the day everyone’s going home happy then objective achieved ! 👍

 

1 hour ago, Tommikka said:

 

Everyone has their own definition of milsim.  From playing in the woods to fully orchestrated door kicking.  That means games  have to cater for everyone, and players have to recognise people are different 

 

Its the players fault.  Don’t walk off muttering to yourself that you won’t do the task you just accepted, let the commander know what type of thing you want to do - or that you don’t want to be sent to do anything, you’re just interested in wandering around and finding your kind of action

 

It’s commander Billy’s fault.  Leading is not about bossing people about, plan for different players and ask what they are after - do they want a sneaky mission, a fire fight, to be told what’s going on generally or to be told nothing, then they can do their own thing and you can allocate tasks to those who will want them

 

Its ABC events fault - They need to understand their customer 

A ‘big game’ or Scenario is not about opening up the whole of a skirmish site and putting more players onto it.  Standard mini games can’t just be scaled up.

The worst case is one big battle with a front line that may be nearer to one side of the field than the other.  Plan to have firefights, objectives that must be gained at one point but don’t have to be defended / held forever (eg award points for capture or holding at set time points, then have different objectives at different times in different places)

Totally agree , the few mil-sims I did go to I’d say yes the organisers had tried to structure the event to accommodate the various levels of player ‘immersion’ in the scenario but it’ll always just be off the mark , take for instance you always get the ‘order screamers’ Who hang back telling everyone what to do (immaterial if it’s there job or not !) now they can really cause an event to go down the pan ? and there just one of the many reasons I don’t think it can 100% work .

 

valid point if you are planning on playing your own game either be honest and tell the ‘team leader’ or hang at the back of the briefing so you do know what the objectives are but don’t let your self be allocated tasks if your NOT going to comply with what you’ve been told/asked to do (which is what I do) that way hopefully your not going to adversely effect the game objectives .

 

Yes and no , don’t boss the players around (they have paid to be there , not BEEN paid to be there) 

asking what they want from the game ? To an extent yes as in “ok we need to take this base so we’ll split in to three teams , assaulters/overwatch/scouts so players can slide them selves in to which group they think suits there expectations asking on a more personal levels going take up too much time .

 

I’d say this event has got it right , there are missions and objectives through the day but equally if you do just want to wonder aimlessly throughout the site you can and the whole event isn’t going to implode if the game plan isn’t followed to the letter . When you have an event of this size with this many players of such varied levels of experience and expectations once the gameday actually starts all you can do Is just let it run its self , no way can your really control it , you may be able to ‘steer’ it in a particular direction but not control it .

Its an old cliche but I do think it’s 100% spot on , controlling airsofters is like herding cats ! 😉

👍

[clumpyedge]

13 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

To which I’d reply your the kind of player that can save an event because you ARE prepared to do it , but a lot won’t hence I said it’s unachievable not impossible to have a 100% realistic chain , you will get most at a themed event willing to follow orders (but again to various degrees) but ultimately I still don’t believe you ever will be able to get an event running as a truly realistic military simulation , BUT if players are happy with this then I do think keep them rolling along and as long as end of the day everyone’s going home happy then objective achieved ! 

 

Prime example on a weekend long game - Stag. Yes its shit standing there for a few hours on guard but if you are with the right person its never really that bad, I've had some right laughs standing in sangers at longmoor and copehill at 3am and sometimes the best firefights come at that sort of time (usually while I've been brewing a coffee or trying to scoff some food & if opfor haven't gone to bed haha!) being on opfor the night time is certainly when the action happens as on some events Ive been to one of the objectives has been running disruption to the bluefor night routine which in turn gives the people on stag something to think about!

 

IMO for anyone who plays airsoft there is some aspect of wanting to play soldiers be it skirmish or more organized event everyone plays a role. You see people all the time naturally starting to play as a team and work through objectives which isn't much different to what Ive mentioned above just with a bit more discipline (which i use in the loosest of terms) I think to get games like this and the structure of play to work takes doing things like battlesims (if you want to section play styles off - the more organized skirmish) then introduce people to Milsims roles and rules slowly through that.

 

[Seth_Erebor]

Quote

 

 At NvS there was a tradition of the South losing, one year the commander put in a whole command structure, handed out command radios on their own frequency, had his wife at respawn handing out maps and telling people where the action was, key objectives and sending the keen ones to the command bunker for missions

This brought successful missions all day and a win for the south.

 

 

nice

[Vulpiness]

On 16/01/2019 at 11:43, Druid799 said:

Well there’s not a lot you can change really , you’ve got a fake gun that fires plastic BBs by the use of compressed air or gas and you shoot it at another person who’s doing the same to you to try and eliminate each other from a roaming game ?

Bit difficult to change the format one would think ? 😉

I would have hopped that airsoft came up with some new and interesting ideas, vehicles for one. I mean how hard is it replicate a tank without the expensive bits? It's just tracks and steel. 

I've seen command structures that "work". But you gotta have an "opt in" method, with most of the people don't want that.

We also have to realize, we're the UK. We don't have allot of territory, and if if we did, people wouldn't be used to it, people in the US are used to flying for 3 hours to get to the east coast or driving for 5 to get to the next state, we ain't, and that affects player numbers, we're just not going to get the numbers, 3,4,5,000 that's achievable, but 10? not a chance.  

One day we might see 20,000 airsoft players at an event, but it'd have to be a worldwide, thing.

airsoft is an expensive hobby, hopefully it;'ll get cheaper, but that will take time, but until then, we're looking at a cap on UK players. 

Personally I wanna be bosed, it adds to the imersesions. 

[Druid799]

28 minutes ago, Vulpiness said:

Personally I wanna be bosed, it adds to the imersesions. 

There’s some ladies out there that’ll do that for you if the price is right ? 😂😂😂

[Vulpiness]

18 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

There’s some ladies out there that’ll do that for you if the price is right ? 😂😂😂

There's also a whole community of people who'll do it for free.  Trust me on this. 

But if you're into that, i only charge £35/hr

 

[Druid799]

6 minutes ago, Vulpiness said:

There's also a whole community of people who'll do it for free.  Trust me on this. 

But if you're into that, i only charge £35/hr

 

Nah I’m ok mate , I’ve got a wife she tells me what to do all the time .😳

[Seth_Erebor]

58 minutes ago, Vulpiness said:

I would have hopped that airsoft came up with some new and interesting ideas, vehicles for one. I mean how hard is it replicate a tank without the expensive bits? It's just tracks and steel. 

I've seen command structures that "work". But you gotta have an "opt in" method, with most of the people don't want that.

We also have to realize, we're the UK. We don't have allot of territory, and if if we did, people wouldn't be used to it, people in the US are used to flying for 3 hours to get to the east coast or driving for 5 to get to the next state, we ain't, and that affects player numbers, we're just not going to get the numbers, 3,4,5,000 that's achievable, but 10? not a chance.  

One day we might see 20,000 airsoft players at an event, but it'd have to be a worldwide, thing.

airsoft is an expensive hobby, hopefully it;'ll get cheaper, but that will take time, but until then, we're looking at a cap on UK players. 

Personally I wanna be bosed, it adds to the imersesions. 

 

It isn't... and around £40k, initially anyway and if you know the right people you can make a rather beastly machine. Or so I'm told 😉

 

One of the many reasons I wish I was stateside but give it time, patience is a virtue I often remind myself.

[Vulpiness]

1 minute ago, Seth_K said:

 

It isn't... and around £40k, initially anyway and if you know the right people you can make a rather beastly machine. Or so I'm told 😉

 

One of the many reasons I wish I was stateside but give it time, patience is a virtue I often remind myself.

It is it is if you earn minimum wage. 

£40k seems way too steep, get an ex-soviet one for £12,000

I mean seriously, all you need is a small engine, a big tube, and the tracks, wheels, suspension, drive shaft and then it's just wood and steel It won't top 10mph for safety reason anyway. 

I was once quoted £12,000 for a fucking ejector seat from a prop company. 

It's mad. 

[Mad Rag]

this thread has broken my small brain

[Seth_Erebor]

Just now, Vulpiness said:

It is it is if you earn minimum wage. 

£40k seems way too steep, get an ex-soviet one for £12,000

I mean seriously, all you need is a small engine, a big tube, and the tracks, wheels, suspension, drive shaft and then it's just wood and steel It won't top 10mph for safety reason anyway. 

I was once quoted £12,000 for a fucking ejector seat from a prop company. 

It's mad. 

 

True, but you have to consider availability of parts, safety and longevity.

It might still work out cheaper going old tho

 

[widowmak3r1989]

On 15/01/2019 at 22:36, BigStew said:

been playing just as long. Airsoft has gone from extremely niche to just very niche. As a sport there really aren't that many people playing relatively speaking hardly any airsoft companies have the infrastructure or resources to put on large events.  

BigStew I've been playing 15 years and i remember when it was a extremely niche sport and i went to the NAE in 2007 when it was like 600/700 plays who where going then and now its like 2000-3000 players. it has boomed the last few years. 

[Seth_Erebor]

12 hours ago, widowmak3r1989 said:

BigStew I've been playing 15 years and i remember when it was a extremely niche sport and i went to the NAE in 2007 when it was like 600/700 plays who where going then and now its like 2000-3000 players. it has boomed the last few years. 

 

Room for a lot more growth, I feel.

The culture and look of the average Airsofter will change.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

GZ is a massive site and has been going for ages too, as others have mentioned it has built up over time. Maybe the NAE is the only thing like it cause it was the first thing like it? 

 

Personally I'm more excited about the prospect of smaller games at 'pop up' sites, a bit like what Spartan Airsoft are doing in Chippenhan. 

[Seth_Erebor]

3 hours ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

GZ is a massive site and has been going for ages too, as others have mentioned it has built up over time. Maybe the NAE is the only thing like it cause it was the first thing like it? 

 

Personally I'm more excited about the prospect of smaller games at 'pop up' sites, a bit like what Spartan Airsoft are doing in Chippenhan. 

 

I wouldn't say massive. But I'm thinking about milsim, any group in decent shape with a Technical or two can zip around a fair bit of land.

[widowmak3r1989]

7 hours ago, Seth_K said:

 

Room for a lot more growth, I feel.

The culture and look of the average Airsofter will change.

exactly Seth there is always room to grow.

 

yeah i've seen the look of the average airsofter change over the years and also the weapons from AEG and gas adding mofset swithes and HPA tanks.

 

times will always change as long as people still are honest with their hits and show good sports-ship I dont mind changes

[Druid799]

8 hours ago, Seth_K said:

 

Room for a lot more growth, I feel.

The culture and look of the average Airsofter will change.

Now I’d say no it’s not going to change (as in ‘evolution’ of the game to something different) in 19yrs of basically continuous (apart from 9mths out after I rather broke my self crashing my bike) playing can’t say I’ve seen any real change at all .

Yes I’ve seen change in kit but you will do as new conflicts burst in to flames around the globe , uniforms go through rapid and sometimes huge changes in very short periods of time , technology advances and real guns change , so the Airsoft market will copy this and the surplus kit will filter down in to the public’s hands so from that perspective yes the game will change BUT if you strip away all the fripperies and ‘must haves’ and just look at Airsoft it’s self then no I can’t say I’ve seen any change in it at all , you’ve got the serious stitch counting geardo’s/the ‘I like to get it as accurate as I can but I’m not totally anaI about it”players/the “i like to wear army kit as long as it’s cheap”players/the “I couldn’t give a shit what I wear”players/mil-sim’ers/regular as clock work every Sunday scurmishers and the every now and again guys . We had all them 19 yrs ago , just varying numbers from today , but no one really different from who you get these days . 

[Seth_Erebor]

56 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

Now I’d say no it’s not going to change (as in ‘evolution’ of the game to something different) in 19yrs of basically continuous (apart from 9mths out after I rather broke my self crashing my bike) playing can’t say I’ve seen any real change at all .

Yes I’ve seen change in kit but you will do as new conflicts burst in to flames around the globe , uniforms go through rapid and sometimes huge changes in very short periods of time , technology advances and real guns change , so the Airsoft market will copy this and the surplus kit will filter down in to the public’s hands so from that perspective yes the game will change BUT if you strip away all the fripperies and ‘must haves’ and just look at Airsoft it’s self then no I can’t say I’ve seen any change in it at all , you’ve got the serious stitch counting geardo’s/the ‘I like to get it as accurate as I can but I’m not totally anaI about it”players/the “i like to wear army kit as long as it’s cheap”players/the “I couldn’t give a shit what I wear”players/mil-sim’ers/regular as clock work every Sunday scurmishers and the every now and again guys . We had all them 19 yrs ago , just varying numbers from today , but no one different from what you get these days . 

 

Charles H. Duell was the Commissioner of US patent office in 1899. Mr. Deull's most famous attributed utterance is that "everything that can be invented has been invented." 

[Druid799]

38 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

 

Charles H. Duell was the Commissioner of US patent office in 1899. Mr. Deull's most famous attributed utterance is that "everything that can be invented has been invented." 

What the F**k are you smoking ?😳😳😳😳😳

[Seth_Erebor]

3 hours ago, Druid799 said:

What the F**k are you smoking ?😳😳😳😳😳