THE TM MWS thread

[LVOA-D]

My new love has just arrived! Goes well with my Strike Industries build! Just awaiting the mount, Strike Industries buffer tube and takedown pins

[Shizbazki]

I know this is an MWS dedicated thread but i think the MTR so similar it is internally, they are essentially the same gun expect for a few bits.

 

Just got an MTR16 and i intend to make a few mods to it to make it a DMR build, i dont mind spending a bit, just want to spend wisely. I know i ill probably have to change part of the hop but i really want to try to avoid spilling some of that TM fairy dust. I plan to be shooting .30g and above BBs. I am aiming around 430FPS on .20g BBs as my local sites are around 450FPS so i am factoring gas variations and joule creep, currently the MTR16 is shooting the standard 1 joule on .20g.

 

Got a few questions

1. Will an NPAS such as the RA-Tech NPAS help me in pushing up the FPS?
2. I've noticed that the inner barrel stops some 3 inches shorter of the outer barrel, would a longer or tighter inner barrel help up that FPS?
3. What is the preferred choice here, The SixG nub or the all in one Laylax hop arm (i already have one), i don't mind and may even prefer using the stock TM rubber?

 

My thoughts are:

• Change the stock barrel with tight bore barrel that is longer than the stock 250mm one, this should in theory up the FPS (right?)
• Change the stock arm entirely and replace it with the Laylax arm to allow me to lift heavier BBs.
• Get the RA-Tech NPAS in case the above mods put me over 450FPS so i can tweak it down or if the FPS is a tad too low so i can turn it up.

 

Thoughts 

TIA

[Venares]

Upgrade the inner to a 370 mm should get you upto DMR levels.

[Cyberlawyer]

I have a Mk12 upper (With it’s own BGC) for my MWS set up as a DMR. Currently firing bang on 315 FPS on a .4g bb (318 FPS on a .4g bb is equivalent to 450 on a .2g bb).

 

I didn’t upgrade much as far as the internals go to get the power and accuracy my list was:

 

- SixG Brass nub (so I can hop heavy BBs)

- npas valve (so I can tune the FPS, it goes higher as well as lower than stock).

- Maple Leaf Crazy Jet 455mm VSR Cut Barrel.

 

That’s it in terms of internals. In terms of externals you will need either a silencer or an 18inch outer barrel to cover that inner barrel (I was always going to do a MK12 upper so just chose the longest inner barrel that would fit in the 18” outer).

 

other than that everything else (sights, bipeds etc.) is optional.

 

There are other ways to go (e.g tighter bore barrel will get more FPS, so won’t need to be as long), but this was very cost effective and has been super reliable as I’m not messing with spring tensions or other stuff that could impact reliability.

 

As an aside I have found the stock TM hop rubber to be the best balance of performance and durability. There are hops that perform better (some of the maple leaf buckings and the modify tan spring to mind), but I have found they don’t last that long at DMR FPS.

 

Edit: just to add there are still a few turns left on the npas so I could go higher FPS.

 

Second Edit: I also permanently modified the safety/selector switch to semi only (needed to comply with U.K. law). There is a YouTube video on how to do this.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Cyberlawyer
Extra info added

[Smiller]

3 hours ago, LVOA-D said:

My new love has just arrived! Goes well with my Strike Industries build! Just awaiting the mount, Strike Industries buffer tube and takedown pins

Money bags! That look the nuts!

[Hypnosis]

21 hours ago, adas1223 said:

I have one. bare bones lower with grip and screw. also trigger guard. blemished, as it has a hairline crack near a pin which doesnt effect any function. 

 

Change of plan, I was being a doughnut but thanks for the reply mate.

 

In other news my AR9 kit has finally turned up! Quick mock up before I start the modifications needed to get it running properly.

[Davegolf]

@Shizbazki don't worry about inner and outer barrel lengths being close to each other.

 

Try to get upto FPS with a 370mm rather than any longer, it only hurts accuracy.

Dont go tighter than 6.03mm bore.

 

@Wo1f had great results at 80M range with his DMR setup.

[The_Mixed_One]

https://www.powair6.com/en/gbb-parts/6238-tokyo-arms-multi-length-cnc-outer-barrel-for-tokyo-marui-m4-mws-black.html

 

Anyone that have tried this barrel? Will it still require the adapter ring to attach aftermarket rails? Is it the correct size for a 10.5" build?

[Cyberlawyer]

2 hours ago, Davegolf said:

Try to get upto FPS with a 370mm rather than any longer, it only hurts accuracy.

I am interested in why this is believed to be the case.
 

I have had 250, 370 and 455 mm barrels (all Maple leaf Crazy Jets if it makes a difference) in my MWS at various points and still have each of these barrels in a GBBR (the 370 is in a WE 416) and at the same FPS (350) I couldn’t tell any meaningful difference in accuracy at 10, 25 or 50m (for me this was the most compelling argument for my MK18 build as there was no performance detriment to the shorter barrel).

 

As far as I am aware assuming the barrels are true with minimal imperfections barrel length shouldn’t make any difference provided it is long enough for the BB to stabilise in the air flow.

The only difference I am aware of is longer barrels will produce increased FPS provided there is sufficient gas volume released.

[jsmithski]

This is 100% true. Longer barrel gives more FPS but there’s no accuracy improvement. There is no single proof that says otherwise.

[Whisky1]

2 hours ago, Cyberlawyer said:

I am interested in why this is believed to be the case.
 

I have had 250, 370 and 455 mm barrels (all Maple leaf Crazy Jets if it makes a difference) in my MWS at various points and still have each of these barrels in a GBBR (the 370 is in a WE 416) and at the same FPS (350) I couldn’t tell any meaningful difference in accuracy at 10, 25 or 50m (for me this was the most compelling argument for my MK18 build as there was no performance detriment to the shorter barrel).

 

As far as I am aware assuming the barrels are true with minimal imperfections barrel length shouldn’t make any difference provided it is long enough for the BB to stabilise in the air flow.

The only difference I am aware of is longer barrels will produce increased FPS provided there is sufficient gas volume released.

So vsr barrels fit? I was under the impression that's mws had a different cuts? 

[Cyberlawyer]

They are VSR cut, but some fit better than others as the specification varies between suppliers. I have found Maple Leaf Crazy Jets to be a good fit.

[Whisky1]

That kinda sucks for me, I've just ordered a pdi 250mm 6.01 because that's all I could find online. 

 

I do have a spare edgi vsr barrel but it's 410mm and I'm running an 11.5 outer.

[Davegolf]

10 hours ago, Cyberlawyer said:

I am interested in why this is believed to be the case.
 

I have had 250, 370 and 455 mm barrels (all Maple leaf Crazy Jets if it makes a difference) in my MWS at various points and still have each of these barrels in a GBBR (the 370 is in a WE 416) and at the same FPS (350) I couldn’t tell any meaningful difference in accuracy at 10, 25 or 50m (for me this was the most compelling argument for my MK18 build as there was no performance detriment to the shorter barrel).

 

As far as I am aware assuming the barrels are true with minimal imperfections barrel length shouldn’t make any difference provided it is long enough for the BB to stabilise in the air flow.

The only difference I am aware of is longer barrels will produce increased FPS provided there is sufficient gas volume released.

 

Upto about 50M you probably wouldn't notice much difference, but for the purposes of DMR and Sniper with longer engagements sensitivity of BB / barrel contact increase a lot!

 

Proof in sniper testing with a BASR @ 500fps, swapping to longer than even 303mm hurt accuracy in a big way at 75M and beyond.

We were getting accurate measured shots to torso size target at 100M with a 303mm!

 

In the same vein, tighter bores increase this sensitivity again.

The above bolty was running a 6.05. 6.03 is the smallest I'd go on any RIF other than a pistol.

 

Best

 

Dave

[Cyberlawyer]

Those findings are very interesting. I have no way of doing any controlled testing at measured ranges beyond about 55-60m (I use 50m as a nice standard range, makes some of the maths I do easier). During lockdown it’s more like 20m 😭.

 

I’d say I can get a good clean torso hit out to well beyond 75m, but I have no means to verify or test with multiple barrels as I’m usually at a skirmish. I may have to invest in a range finder then at least I can accurately verify shot distance at skirmishes (I assume walking towards someone you have just shot with a surveyors tape measure would not go down well 🤪).

[Davegolf]

Haha! Yeh "wait a minute where you are" walks over with a surveyors trundle wheel 😂

[CoCost]

On 13/04/2020 at 11:01, Horse84 said:

 

On this, i have a c&c 13.5 bcm mcmr clone and for the life of me I cant fix the wobble, and its more than just a little, the movement is very noticeable. Ive tried shims, various different outer barrel combinations to no affect whatsoever. Can you tell me more about these fixing cross bolts? Its a real pity because the rail itself is fantastic imho.

 

 I too had the exact same issue! Annoying AF. I initially patched it by wrapping the barrel nut in some tape so it would fit snug with both the handrail and cross-bolts, but that was a short lived fix. The wobble returned and wore away at the tape after a hundred or so rounds 😕 Im sure some of the licensed/practiced gun-smiths could probably provide a better quick-fix solution for this. The best fix I found was to replace the cross-bolts with ones from a real-steal BCM, as they are a LOT thicker. I ordered mine direct from the states a while back, but you can get them from BCM (US) or in the KRM install kit from Brownells (UK).

 

https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-kmr-cross-bolts-kit-set-of-2

https://www.brownells.co.uk/BCM-KRM-HANDGUARD-INSTALLATION-KIT

 

 On another note. Was testing out my Ace1Arms Pmags [they really quiet good IMO] only to have my AngryGun MPA nozzle spring fire out of the barrel 😕 Anyone know where I can get a spare for this rather than buying a whole new Nozzle?

 

 

[marine]

1 hour ago, CoCost said:

 

 I too had the exact same issue! Annoying AF. I initially patched it by wrapping the barrel nut in some tape so it would fit snug with both the handrail and cross-bolts, but that was a short lived fix. The wobble returned and wore away at the tape after a hundred or so rounds 😕 Im sure some of the licensed/practiced gun-smiths could probably provide a better quick-fix solution for this. The best fix I found was to replace the cross-bolts with ones from a real-steal BCM rail order direct from the states, as they are a LOT thicker. You can get them direct from BCM (US) or in the KRM install kit from Brownells

 

https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-kmr-cross-bolts-kit-set-of-2

https://www.brownells.co.uk/BCM-KRM-HANDGUARD-INSTALLATION-KIT

 

 On another note. Was testing out my Ace1Arms Pmags [they really quiet good IMO] only to have my AngryGun MPA nozzle spring fire out of the barrel 😕 Anyone know where I can get a spare for this rather than buying a whole new Nozzle?

 

 

 

Hello , You need similar Allen M3*6

 

https://www.amazon.es/QLOUNI-Tornillos-Prisioneros-Hexagonal-Inoxidable/dp/B0778YW5XJ/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_es_ES=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=prisionero+allen&qid=1588412365&sr=8-5

[SSPKali]

5 hours ago, CoCost said:

 

 On another note. Was testing out my Ace1Arms Pmags [they really quiet good IMO] only to have my AngryGun MPA nozzle spring fire out of the barrel 😕 Anyone know where I can get a spare for this rather than buying a whole new Nozzle?

Put a dab of low strength Loctite on it before installing and wait 24hrs before adjusting. Should stop it rattling lose in future.

[The_Mixed_One]

Is there no knowledge about the tokyo arms outer barrel? Is it a good fit? Do i still need the adapter to attach aftermarket rails?

 

https://www.powair6.com/en/gbb-parts/6238-tokyo-arms-multi-length-cnc-outer-barrel-for-tokyo-marui-m4-mws-black.html

[SSPKali]

12 minutes ago, The_Mixed_One said:

Is there no knowledge about the tokyo arms outer barrel? Is it a good fit? Do i still need the adapter to attach aftermarket rails?

 

https://www.powair6.com/en/gbb-parts/6238-tokyo-arms-multi-length-cnc-outer-barrel-for-tokyo-marui-m4-mws-black.html

The only review on that page says that the ring is too big to fir through the handguard and there is no hole for the screw to hold it together (translation thanks to Google!) Would be good to hear some real-world reviews of users on here before ordering from overseas and the issues around returning it should it turn out to be pants.

[The_Mixed_One]

10 minutes ago, SSPKali said:

The only review on that page says that the ring is too big to fir through the handguard and there is no hole for the screw to hold it together (translation thanks to Google!) Would be good to hear some real-world reviews of users on here before ordering from overseas and the issues around returning it should it turn out to be pants.

Yeah thats the thing, i really want a 10.5  barrel, and they seem hard to find. Except this tokyo arms that are in stock everywhere

[Horse84]

On 02/05/2020 at 09:40, CoCost said:

 

 I too had the exact same issue! Annoying AF. I initially patched it by wrapping the barrel nut in some tape so it would fit snug with both the handrail and cross-bolts, but that was a short lived fix. The wobble returned and wore away at the tape after a hundred or so rounds 😕 Im sure some of the licensed/practiced gun-smiths could probably provide a better quick-fix solution for this. The best fix I found was to replace the cross-bolts with ones from a real-steal BCM, as they are a LOT thicker. I ordered mine direct from the states a while back, but you can get them from BCM (US) or in the KRM install kit from Brownells (UK).

 

https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-kmr-cross-bolts-kit-set-of-2

https://www.brownells.co.uk/BCM-KRM-HANDGUARD-INSTALLATION-KIT

 

thanks a million for the reply. Did getting that kit completely solve the wobble? I need new cross bolts anyway because the c&c ones I have are now almost worn out with the constant tampering. So unbelievably frustrating. Almost 70 quid for that kit isn’t cheap but if they work I’ll pay it. Had seen them myself but was doubtful whether they were compatible with the replica rail.

[Shizbazki]

Many thanks to those who assisted me in my MTR16 G-Edition DMR quest.

 

So having perused Google based on your suggestions i have made the following decisions.

Inner Barrel - I ummed and arghed about this between going for a Maple Leaf Crazy Jet 370mm and a Prometheus 6.03mm 370mm inner barrel. In the end i decided on the Prometheus 6.03mm 370mm barrel, my rationale for this was that it is only slightly tighter than the stock and the length meant that i could keep the original muzzle flash hider. Plus i have only heard good things about Prometheus. In an ideal world if money was no object or i could find one in stock (UK Side) i would have been happy to buy the a PDI or EdGI barrel too.

https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/prometheus-603mm-eg-inner-barrel-for-m4a1-mws-370mm

 

Nub - Whilst i understand that everyone loves the SixG nub, that its well made and precise, i think i could probably get away with the Laylax hop arm. I dont plan in shooting higher than 0.40g BBs, plus i already havethe Laylax one at home now rather than have to wait for the SixG one to be made. Perhaps further down the line i might order two, one for my TM M4 MWS and the other for this MTR16.

https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/first-factory-strike-hop-arm-for-marui-m4a1-mws

 

NPAS - So in my quest to find an adjustable NPAS system, i knew of the RA-Tech one but discovered that G&P also made an adjustable one too but had 4 different colours and numbers: Red 5, Gold 4.5, Blue 4 and Green 3.5. With no information on a) how they work and b) what was the power output of each one i decided to give them a miss. My only understanding was that Red was the strongest output with a 5mm opening, and downwards. In the end i stuck with RA-Tech and managed to source an NPAS valve.

http://emperionstore.com/npas-kit-for-tokyo-marui-mws-gbb-ra-tech.html

 

My plans are to install both the inner barrel and Laylax arm first, see how she shoots in terms of FPS, then put the NPAS in.

 

So any glaring errors??🤔

[Davegolf]

Glad you went Prommy, for I while there I thought you were going to go Crazy.

Some like them but in testing I did not.

 

Before you get super excited and throw all your packaging away; roll the barrel on a flat surface and check it's true/straight.

 

Also inspect the crown/barrel exit for any little burrs.

 

95% of the time Prommy are bang on but sometimes there's the odd lemon