How will airsoft be affected by the EU referendum

[Jambo88]

 

Are you serious?

 

Also, we already do not have a politics section on the forum

 

Yes or we could ban anyone that supports ukip and a EU exit.

[Sacarathe]

Yes or we could ban anyone that supports ukip and a EU exit.

 

Sorry, my comment is an inside joke.

 

You ruined it. :/

[Jambo88]

 

Sorry, my comment is an inside joke.

 

You ruined it. :/

 

 

Sorry pal.

[Fumps]

I see both sides using scare tactics which annoys me more than anything but what I will say for sure is that both me & my partners jobs are looking a little shakey.

 

I work for a large manufacturing plant & there are already talks of down sizing and part relocation to Europe if Brexit happens which is not good for 600 members of staff and the local companies that mainly deal with us, for instance if we left the UK the haulage company we use exclusively would go out of business pretty much overnight. We are their main contract by a very long way. There are at least another 20 local business' that deal with us as their main customer (I know them well as I am the main buyer). they would all take a very bad hit if we did down size and relocate as a matter of fact I think a few would not survive.

 

My partner is a global fraud and financial crime consultant working within the financial services sector, she cant say which ones but she knows the wheels are already turning for some of the larger banks and financial services companies who are planning on moving across the channel if we vote out, taking with them a huge amount of money, investment and jobs. The UK is a strong base in Europe but instability is the fear factor for large companies and they will simply move on to stay with Europe than risk sticking with us in the UK.

 

By the way I'm no expert on this stuff so don't read the above as my opinion, these are just solid facts.

I was hoping either vote wouldn't effect me but when you are asked to write an accurate asset list of stock machinery and find out haulage cost's to France & Poland in the last few months it doesn't look good for companies like the one I work for, especially when the haulage firm in question tells me we are not the only company in Yorkshire who has asked for similar quotes in the last few weeks. It looks to me like some large scale companies are creating a disaster management plan in case of Brexit. that makes me very nervous.

 

So to answer the OP, yes I believe Airsoft will be effected by a Brexit simply because If people like me loose their jobs they will simply stop spending, if a recession is caused by Brexit (Which is widely accepted will happen until stability is restored to the UK economy) peoples spending patterns will drastically alter. Airsoft after all is a hobby and given the choice between paying my mortgage and paying for a day out skirmishing I know what my priority will be.

[James1989]

given the choice between paying my mortgage and paying for a day out skirmishing I know what my priority will be.

Airsoft obviously! On a more serious note sorry to hear about uncertainty with your job. I work in a care home and if all the EU workers suddenly require visas we are in serious trouble.

[Sitting Duck]

Well I've already lost my job and don't see me getting that back if we remain

(my old company has reduced workforce by over 30% in last 12 months)

 

But the trade thingy.......

 

Friends/Allies should all be doing stuff for each other but not always charging the full going rate

 

You get your plumber m8 to come round and revamp your central heating and he does you a good deal like friends/allies do

But he doesn't ask you to pay a yearly friend fee or expect he just live in your place anytime coz that is part of the deal

 

Yes if import from Far East duty should be paid

but stuff from friends/allies you should get a good deal or discount or not subject to duty

(Think maybe even imports USA should be reduced as they are supposed to be our allies etc....)

 

If Gunfire import from Far East - they pay duty to bring stuff over - some of their VAT is higher rate than UK btw

But if you trade with friends/allies why pay duty again - remembering you lost £20 on £100 earned so with £80 to pay more duty/tax is greed

(When you consider all big organisations avoiding paying correct levels of tax etc..)

 

It is beyond me why stuff has to be so damn complicated and both sides saying our ar$es will fall off if we stay in or leave crap

For the short term nothing will change - no major price hike - nobody is ordering a removal van for the 24th June if we come out

They will see how the land lies - pah that is ironic the word " lies "

That is one thing that this referendum has been overflowing with if nothing else

 

Import/Export stuff - I see no reason why anything short change in the short term at least

 

Let us not forget though, we are all guilty of snubbing many UK airsoft retailers for EU & Far East ones

Yet we with UKARA need UK retailers - yes this is another topic but kind of related in a way

We in UK have a pretty good setup, not perfect but we have a system that helps us enjoy a sport after the vcra

but we need the UK retailers for this, but our sport is regulated, enjoys sensible safety limits and ownership thanks to UK retailers

Now UK Retailers do at times need a kick up the ar$e but by continually importing direct everything ourselves is not great for everybody either

(yes some retailers take the pi$$ and customer service at a few may suck but we do need these guys is what I'm meaning)

 

I think little will change - well I'm pretty sure of that, and tbh to be concerned about just some toy guns is way down on my agenda of economics

[proffrink]

Ok, once again I should draw attention to who needs who more: EU or UK. We do not make up enough of the GDP nor export enough to be worth a super special deal. That was basically my point in the previous two posts.

 

It'd be great if we could all just get along, but we will be getting a worse deal out of leaving economically. Whether or not that is worth the social benefits like immigration reform that people are so passionate about is a personal decision, but one is delusional if they think that we'll get some kind of equivalent deal whilst not paying the same tariff (or more) than we're currently playing.

 

What you must understand is that for the EU to continue that way it is without us they have to make an example of the first member state that leaves. If not, it's going to potentially open the floodgates to places like Greece who've already threatened to leave the Eurozone - if the UK 'gets away' with a similar deal to the one they had when in the EU and with none of the regulatory restrictions that Brussels hands down there are are other countries who's population is vehemently on the side of non-federalisation who may want to go. For this reason alone we can be expected to be treated harshly. This isn't 1905 - Britain isn't the powerhouse it used to be, and even though we punch far above our weight we're up against France, Germany, Italy and Spain. These are all large economies.

 

The real issue I think this all stems from is how the EU has been slowly creeping towards a federation. Personally, I love that idea because - as I've said - it would make us the first or second most rich country in the world (depending on which world rankings you go by) next to the US. However, that's besides the point. Brussels has done a poor job of slowly eroding current laws and hasn't made its intentions known to much of the public and a lot of people feel short-changed when it comes to social policy.

 

I get the feeling like if they'd have announced some grand strategy in the late 90s or early 2000s that outlined these intentions then people would be a lot more understanding of what's going on, but they've not. That's pissed a lot of people off, because we deal with enough lack of transparency back at home where we at least have some extremely free press that can - relative to the rest of the world - hold our own government pretty accountable most of the time. It's much harder to get that accountability EU-wide, and I understand that concern.

 

Once again though, this 'voting out' nonsense is a short-term 'yeh well we quit' way of solving things. Compromises will need to be made for a federalised Europe, and it's a damn shame they've not made that clearer to people. I cannot help buy feel that actually the UK is a country in the EU that could well change quite a few minds on quite a few things. Also we wouldn't have to learn German because everyone speaks English, innit.

 

Very tough on this and the past generation though who really want to live in the UK and not move. There are so many jobs abroad that it's ridiculous. You have to remember just how small the UK is - plenty of people in the US have family on the east coast or central but work on the west coast or in Canada. The distance from California to New York is 2,440 miles. The distance from Lisbon to Helsinki? 2,410 miles.

 

This whole free movement thing has meant any of us here can easily take up a job abroad, and flights are cheap across Europe. I'm seeing a lot of my peers looking at jobs in Germany and other places and that seems a natural progression for a lot of young people who can see the bigger picture. Don't get me wrong - the UK will always be my home, but I'm also European. Part of the continent with the richest history in the world, that's responsible for the lion's share of modern scientific discoveries and a GDP $1tril above or below that of the US (depending on which statistics you go by). This seems to be a generational thing, and it's no coincidence that if you're aged over 35 then you're at least 42% likely to vote 'leave' as opposed to under 35s who're 53% likely to vote 'remain' (according to the Opinium/Observer poll in April). In over 55s this jumps up to 54% voting leave.

 

We share a great deal in common and it would be a shame to throw that away for the past 10-15 years of poor social policy changes.

[skarra333]

As this is an EU Referendum/Airsoft crossover, can I apply some airsoft logic to help me decide how to vote...

 

It's only plastic balls, charge! But, it's raining and my gear'll get wet, so I'm going home. See you next month.

[Sitting Duck]

respect your views sir even though our outlooks are somewhat different

 

but I was trying to keep this to how Airsoft itself will be affected as we have an EU thread

and probably have had more wars of words lately on EU than all the ukara rows put together

 

There is a lot conflicting stories on both sides, the "yeah I'll quit" approach is not always the best approach

but sometimes like in employment if you feel you are undervalued at times you are left with little other options

wise to secure employment elsewhere first of course but at times if you remain at a crappy job you will keep having the pi$$ taken out of you

(eg: others get promoted or new people recruited over yourself again & again)

 

Airsoft wise - think very little will change at least for the short term - it might help UK retailers even which we do still need a bit

The rest of the EU debate nobody really knows 101% sure - experts will say stick with devil you know and they can't run the risk of being incorrect

[Sitting Duck]

As this is an EU Referendum/Airsoft crossover, can I apply some airsoft logic to help me decide how to vote...

 

It's only plastic balls, charge! But, it's raining and my gear'll get wet, so I'm going home. See you next month.

 

Jeeez - best check the weather report for the 23rd

if rain is forecast it could be a very low airsoft turnout I guess

 

ahh - don't worry, just spoke to Dodgy Dave, if its raining he says he may extend the deadline for us

[Sacarathe]

Once again though, this 'voting out' nonsense is a short-term 'yeh well we quit' way of solving things. Compromises will need to be made for a federalised Europe, and it's a damn shame they've not made that clearer to people. I cannot help buy feel that actually the UK is a country in the EU that could well change quite a few minds on quite a few things. Also we wouldn't have to learn German because everyone speaks English, innit.

 

Very tough on this and the past generation though who really want to live in the UK and not move. There are so many jobs abroad that it's ridiculous. You have to remember just how small the UK is - plenty of people in the US have family on the east coast or central but work on the west coast or in Canada. The distance from California to New York is 2,440 miles. The distance from Lisbon to Helsinki? 2,410 miles.

 

This whole free movement thing has meant any of us here can easily take up a job abroad, and flights are cheap across Europe. I'm seeing a lot of my peers looking at jobs in Germany and other places and that seems a natural progression for a lot of young people who can see the bigger picture. Don't get me wrong - the UK will always be my home, but I'm also European. Part of the continent with the richest history in the world, that's responsible for the lion's share of modern scientific discoveries and a GDP $1tril above or below that of the US (depending on which statistics you go by). This seems to be a generational thing, and it's no coincidence that if you're aged over 35 then you're at least 42% likely to vote 'leave' as opposed to under 35s who're 53% likely to vote 'remain' (according to the Opinium/Observer poll in April). In over 55s this jumps up to 54% voting leave.

 

We share a great deal in common and it would be a shame to throw that away for the past 10-15 years of poor social policy changes.

 

 

I'm pro USE too, that is a brilliant write up.

 

Since going to uni I have lived with international and european students and it is so peculiar how alike students from all the countries west of the berlin wall are (despite being born after it came down), yet still different they are from the English, we've hurt ourselves over the last 30 years with the typical mememememe British attitude, but it's not too late to integrate properly, we just need less short sighted people. That the English language is learned across the continent is a major boon which we squander (particularly in the lower classes - I'm not saying English workers in Europe are educated only, but the news stories only seem to talk about those which are).

 

We have provided a common language for people from all across the EU to work in any country, but they use that more than we do, but in mainland England it's still us or them, and it should only be we.

 

 

I think keeping the pound was the right decision, but while there are minimum wage differences across the various states it's hardly surprising that people will move, it's no different from moving from the north of England to Scotland or the South.

 

Only an idiot would vote to be the first country to leave the EU.

 

I spoke to my sister yesterday and she was not even going to vote, I told her I would think less of her not voting than putting "leave" but that she does not need to tell me her vote, and that I do not care as long as she makes one. Then I explained what status quo means.

[Sitting Duck]

 

Only an idiot would vote to be the first country to leave the EU.

 

 

Phew - for a moment there I thought there was something wrong with me

now I know there is everything wrong with me....

 

 

no worries - I know we all got a different take on this so no rows or grudges held

(until we next meet in each other's sights - kidding btw)

[Giliador]

It make sense what German Finance Minister said.

''That wont work, Schäuble told Der Spiegel. It would require the country to abide by the rules of a club from which it currently wants to withdraw. If the majority in Britain opts for Brexit, that would be a decision against the single market. In is in. Out is out. One has to respect the sovereignty of the British people.''

 

You can argue that Germany trade with UK. Especially car export, they will still do, but the tax and customs after Brexit would be paid by UK not Germany

[Sacarathe]

Phew - for a moment there I thought there was something wrong with me

now I know there is everything wrong with me....

 

 

no worries - I know we all got a different take on this so no rows or grudges held

(until we next meet in each other's sights - kidding btw)

 

Only an idiot would vote to be the first country to leave the EU.

Haha, actually that sentence came out horribly wrong, I don't have a problem with people voting leave, only those that do so when it's for the first country to leave. These things just happen to be the same right now.

[Fumps]

Ok, once again I should draw attention to who needs who more: EU or UK. We do not make up enough of the GDP nor export enough to be worth a super special deal. That was basically my point in the previous two posts.

 

It'd be great if we could all just get along, but we will be getting a worse deal out of leaving economically. Whether or not that is worth the social benefits like immigration reform that people are so passionate about is a personal decision, but one is delusional if they think that we'll get some kind of equivalent deal whilst not paying the same tariff (or more) than we're currently playing.

 

What you must understand is that for the EU to continue that way it is without us they have to make an example of the first member state that leaves. If not, it's going to potentially open the floodgates to places like Greece who've already threatened to leave the Eurozone - if the UK 'gets away' with a similar deal to the one they had when in the EU and with none of the regulatory restrictions that Brussels hands down there are are other countries who's population is vehemently on the side of non-federalisation who may want to go. For this reason alone we can be expected to be treated harshly. This isn't 1905 - Britain isn't the powerhouse it used to be, and even though we punch far above our weight we're up against France, Germany, Italy and Spain. These are all large economies.

 

 

You have eloquently said what I was dreading in the back of my mind. if the EU make it easy for us, what would be the point of staying in for the rest of the member states ?

I think if we are made an example of (Lets face it how heartless has the EU been with Greece?) We are basically screwed.

 

Edited for rushed typing lol

[Sacarathe]

Well, we will miss out on common sense lawmaking:

 

https://www.facebook.com/UKAPU/posts/990243094421994

 

 

The parliament’s amendments make it clear that a ‘firearm’ shall not include items designed ”to only be capable of expelling a shot, bullet or projectile by the action of compressed air or other gas not generated by the action of a combusted propellant, or are designed as airsoft devices or airgun devices of any description from which only a small missile with limited energy can be discharged, provided that they can be used for the stated purpose only and are not capable of being converted in such a way as to render them capable of expelling a shot, bullet or projectile by the action of a combusted propellant;”

 

This is slightly out of context, nothing is final and BFGs are still in their crosshairs.

 

Cant find the thread which is actually about this.

[Tamberlin]

Honestly, being a UKIPPER you could say i was biased, but if we negotiated free trade deals with the EU which is the plan, it shouldn't really be affected, we could also get free trade deals with other countries such as japan and china etc who manufacture a lot of the airsoft stuff, which could make it cheaper!

As we've already seen, stuff has only got more expensive...

[proffrink]

Inflation yo. This is what happens when your currency goes down the pan (even temporarily).

 

The whole inflation thing isn't really an argument until a few months from now though. If we can be clever and get it back to where it should be then all will be well and good. So far that's not happened, but it's early days.

 

Just don't buy any airsoft stuff for a bit

[ImTriggerHappy]

Inflation yo. This is what happens when your currency goes down the pan (even temporarily).

 

The whole inflation thing isn't really an argument until a few months from now though. If we can be clever and get it back to where it should be then all will be well and good. So far that's not happened, but it's early days.

 

Just don't buy any airsoft stuff for a bit

It will get better eventually. There are already countries talking about free trade deals with the UK and most of Europe want to keep a good trade deal so it could be a good thing a bit further down the line.

A few experts are already predicting that the EU could end being the island in the rest of the world.

Let the scare mongering calm down then it can all be evaluated properly.

 

On the up side my M&P9's resale value went up 😃

[Sitting Duck]

I'm sitting on a goldmine - well no just a pile of G&G's really

 

yeah I'm still stupid - just a bit more skint but I bought crap before the currencies went crap

[proffrink]

It will get better eventually. There are already countries talking about free trade deals with the UK and most of Europe want to keep a good trade deal so it could be a good thing a bit further down the line.

A few experts are already predicting that the EU could end being the island in the rest of the world.

Let the scare mongering calm down then it can all be evaluated properly.

 

On the up side my M&P9's resale value went up

You're right, we should wait. That's basically what I'm saying though - the markets were always going to favour the uncertainty poorly. That's just how it works. My unfortunate feeling is it's going to be a year or more until the markets go back up (or down, if we can't renegotiate).

 

But I'm wondering who's saying the EU might become an island? Even without us they're the 3rd or 4th largest GDP in the world so I can't see people ignoring them.

[Sitting Duck]

There are 9 elections & referendums coming up in the next 4 months plus elections next year across europe.....

I'm not going to go into this crap again but recent events have made some think a little more....

 

Junker is not quite so smug as he was 6 months ago - that is all I wish to say on the matter

[proffrink]

Thing is, I've heard a lot of people who're happy with doing what we did by voting to leave simply to stick it to the EU. Whether the reasons were good or not, it could just be mutually assured destruction and long term that's never going to be a clever idea. I don't know if picking out individual twats like Junker looking a little uneasy is really a significant point at all. He was never particularly well respected by any of the major players in the EU anyway because he was/is seen as inflammatory. Something we've seen confirmed recently by some of the stuff Germany has to say about him. I'd love to see him go too, but when it comes to the actual economics - the important bit of us leaving - he's a footnote.

 

I just hope we can sort things out, the EU gets a proper wake-up call about the way it governs and then we end up rejoining in 50 years when it's a bit better. States outside of the EU as small as ours and with as few natural resources as ours don't last long as our labour force is generally auxiliary to other industries that rely heavily on input from other countries.

 

The real worry right now is the cut funding to a lot of our research that's been happening and I hope the government can find the money to supplement it in some way. The UK has got by as a nation that punches way above its weight for the past 500 years because we've always been on the cutting edge of technology, and that's a factor that's been overlooked a lot during the vote. Cutting on the scale of potentially up to £1bil could see a major brain-drain as researchers seek better prospects in places like Germany and northern Europe. Hard to say right now what the long term effects will be, but the EU has already suspended a lot of new research grants in anticipation of us pulling the trigger on leaving.

[ImTriggerHappy]

But I'm wondering who's saying the EU might become an island? Even without us they're the 3rd or 4th largest GDP in the world so I can't see people ignoring them.

Can't remember where I read it.

What the basics of it was that the EU is makes it difficult for member states to broker trade agreements and that the EU wants to keep as much trade as possible within its member states to protect its own markets.

Since the referendum there has been offers of free trade or better trade deals with other countries towards the UK. Eventually lots of countries around the world will have free trade amongst themselves and this will be better for the global community. Its something that all the major players are starting to realise has to happen to keep commerce going.

Even Russia is becoming more of a global player rather than the outside nation. As the world shrinks through faster movement of goods and easier exchange of information then its better to be part of the world stage than the European union one.

More countries will leave if this works out for the UK and the union will either collapse or become more insular.

 

That was the general gist of it, but who really knows.

At least its showing signs that it might not be a complete disaster.

[proffrink]

Well see if you can dig up a link, because that's interesting.

 

The fact of the matter is that the larger your land mass and the proportionally smaller and more economically you can manage your money for civic services then the more money you have to spend elsewhere. It's economies of scale, plain and simple. It's the reason why I'd still be fully behind completely incorporating the EU into a single government with fair representation based on population density (i.e. we'd get a lot of representation). My argument would be that 'better communication' happens with a more homogeneous government that can more effectively rule and costs - again in proportion - less to its electorate to run.

 

Russia is not a good example at all of a 'global player': They're a country with some seriously, seriously troubling social issues that regularly turn businesses away from dealing with them. Like China they're oppressive and pretty corrupt, and those are not good environments for trade to be done safely and effectively. I also don't know if it's a good idea to compare the UK with places like Russia simply because they just aren't the same industry at all. We're services and high grade goods, and they specialise in raw materials; in terms of our portfolios we're just at complete other ends of the spectrum.

 

Right now there are no tangible signs that this hasn't been a total disaster. We're still without any significant trade deals (of course there are negotiations, but there were always going to be negotiations), we've seen our currency go into the toilet and have had research grants cut to thousands of scientists in the country.

 

It's too early to tell, but things are certainly not at the point of 'looking up' yet, and that's enough to stagnate our economy for years.