G&G - Do You Think They Have Too Many Rifles

[Baz JJ]

Looking for an AR15 type platform as I was recently, I found myself browsing the G&G catalogue.

 

I started to get very confused by the plethora of rifles they offer in this category.

 

There really is a lot and they seem to crossover with their different types of functionaity.

 

I believe that Krytec are having the success they are because their range is simple, progressive (about 4-5 models from PDW to Support Weapon in different colours) and they have concentrated on giving customers want they want.

 

Dont get me wrong - G&G rifles are very good and they cater for all the price points, but it must be a stockists nightmare.

[Sitting Duck]

G&G - Do You Think They Have Too Many Rifles....

 

What - you mean all of their range or just the ones that work properly ???

 

oooh oooh bitch bitch - and that is from a G&G fan

 

G&G are very good at making starter guns - think very few will argue on that basis

it is when you start going from £150 to £250+ they fall a bit short of the choice of other good guns (Krytac)

 

Also in the last year I've experienced more poorly implementation of their new stuff than their tried and tested back to basics starter guns

 

Terrible FireHawk DSG no semi - wtf was they thinking with that and poor assembly

 

ETU crap that works on anything battery but the recommended one in manual

 

Older Mosfets in higher end guns failing

 

PBB boxes that can crack before normal non-pbb boxes plus other issues

 

Their other inventions they might be thinking of implementing - the MARS - yeah good luck getting some spares for that stuff

They got some interesting and perhaps bold ideas - some even might be a great item to bring to market but their actual quality of these innovations fall far short of good - let alone approaching near perfect

 

Starter guns - yes G&G

innovations like G&G Predator that works/doesn't work & £250+ - nah think I'll pass getting one of those tbh and save a bit more for a better built gun

 

Real shame - but that is my honest opinion on their latest stuff - good starter but if buying next higher end gun try to go for Krytac or TM

a higher end G&G is not such a great value for money gun imho

great range - even the starters offer at least say a dozen offerings that are worth a look

 

Krytac are having success simply because they are assembled better with better parts no fancy bits on their first initial range

But sure their later range will be using components that work as they should too

 

G&G need to start at the foundations to use & assemble quality parts in their higher range guns asap or they will steadily just become known for making starter guns - Krytac & some others are taking away sales of other manufactures - they must be

And furthermore some of the Krytac sales must have been potential G&G Intermediate & TopTech buyers

 

Yes G&G seem to make nigh on every type of M4 you could ever wish for and some you may not have considered

Their range is vast - that bit they got right as they must have a M4 that most people like the look of even Mr AK Ian Gere

But no point having a nice looking gun/car or other stuff if it has too many flaws or reliability issues

This is what G&G have to quickly remember - not half ar$ed innovations that don't function correctly

 

Decent basic mosfet, correct AoE, modest neodym motor, proper bushings, proper robust gears, decent seals etc....

That is why Krytac have gained ground - you can see where your money has gone coz most upgrades or improvements are not needed

Get a G&G high end gun and apart from metal receiver I see little as to where say half the extra money has gone

 

Their range of guns is plenty in the M4 area - now they need to rethink/adjust their quality control on these mid/higher end guns

If I spent £250+ on a G&G Predator/Hog that the ETU is playing up I'd feel pretty damn pi$$ed and even I am thinking I'm done with G&G

[Baz JJ]

i have only Top Tech but they are three years old so are basic mechanics - no fancy gadgets.

 

I have now bought a Krytac CRB so we will see.

[Sitting Duck]

I would of bought Hef's one he is selling but Mrs Duck would kill me if I buy or sneak another toy gun in the house

 

Think many people try a decent G&G Combat Machine, and think about sticking with devil you know

but really think in the mid-higher range of things they have started to lose ground I'm afraid

 

Shame coz the range is vast like I said - reckon you made a wise choice trying out a Krytac

[Baz JJ]

TBH I looked at the G&G and think they have lost their way, I was originally looking for a PDW sized 5.56mm replica for vehicle use, but they only had the 100Y which although an old design has some bad design flaws or the baby M4s.

The Krytac PDW at least looked fresh and there are some great PDWs to emulate.

 

There are some great real steel stuff out there to copy but G&G seem stuck in a bit of a groove.

 

Personally, I think their range needs pruning, keeping some of the gold classics and then adding some leading edge stuff.

 

Also, their catalogues never seem to include their SMG range and they dont even make an MP5K.

[Baz JJ]

Sitting Duck - from your experience and for the benefit of others, what G&G M4 models are considered technically sound ?

 

I did look at the ETU models but struck them off the list when I read you cant use 7.4V LIPO.

 

My son has a CM Raider XL and thats been a good rifle but again its basic mechanically.

[Sitting Duck]

Sitting Duck - from your experience and for the benefit of others, what G&G M4 models are considered technically sound ?

 

I did look at the ETU models but struck them off the list when I read you cant use 7.4V LIPO.

 

My son has a CM Raider XL and thats been a good rifle but again its basic mechanically.

 

They are all basically the same tbh - same gearbox hop etc.....

it really comes down to style & personal choice in the end.....

 

Raider is good - sometimes think they should of done a Medium Raider at 300mm

The Short might be a tad too short if the specs of 233mm are to be believed

and Long at 357mm is a little on the large size for my ideal length - though whats a couple of inches I tell Mrs Duck

Dust cover has to pull down manually on Raider - but really not a massive deal tbh as some make out

 

The entry Carbine is ok but you got Raider with rails - always worth that few quid more imho

Though they do a 300mm carbine light version which would be nicer in tighter spaces

(again this is just my take as I like the look of about 300mm and extend if I choose with a stfu suppressor or something)

 

FireHawk is nice for close up cqb but not best suited for woodland plus gets very annoying in echoy tight spaces

 

I like the CM18 still with its 2-tone look I reckon - same sights as FireHawk, comes with a 120rnd midcap and hmm not fan of flash hider

but still a nice looking gun - just about see where maybe the £30 extra over a Raider went I guess....

 

The 30th GC16 & GC26 - prefer the GC16 but they are both front wired but a very good buy at the time for what you was getting

They were metal/part metal receivers where as the others were polymer combat machines but light to carry round for younger/weak old players

 

The ETU stuff is flawed - I firmly believe that but it will be ok to run on 11.1v lipo if you keep her stock as it will only just hit 18 to 20rps max

 

All same stuff inside, 8mm bronze bushings will wear, gears should be ok - just the recent stuff seem to have badly made/treated gears inside

You can get fairly decent compression on stock piston & piston head but likes a stretched o-ring in there rather than the small green o-ring

It isn't that bad inside the box - the ETU one I'm re-doing is just a recent bad build imho where I think the changed/cut corners a bit

plus gotta replace switch/selector - cut off lever coz I was being ultra fussy and wasn't happy with loose one G&G fitted with lots of play in FFR A2

 

The cylinder head isn't that bad of a seal - kept the stock one so far just did AoE

SHS red nozzle - might be a little whisker too long for some boxes but seems same size as G&G black nozzle 21.5mm

The std M4 grip will struggle for thick wire like 16awg so that low resistance silver wire is best unless you like using your dremmel

Fire-Storm or F-Storm mosfet or Gate pico baby type mosfet

SHS torque motor coz 18k G&G is lame - very lame

should get you near 20 rps on 7.4v

 

Thing is do you spend time/money on redoing it or buy another £150 G&G

or give him your old G&G - whoaaahhh easy there

 

Just saying - nigh on all the G&G's are same inside regardless of price - except for pbb exceptions but still similar in many ways

Gun upgrades/repairs/tweaks - always begs the question how far do you go...

A few tweaks, a bit of upgrade, or total revamp inside & out - ergh keep it in perspective it is just a Raider....

No point going too nutz or you may as well buy Hef's bad boy instead

 

Mega waffle - I like the CM18 still as nice sexy looking all rounder type of gun - though tbh this is more the look than anything else

They are all the same as a £117 Carbine really - just tarty front ends if truth be told is what you pay extra for

[Baz JJ]

I make it 74 different M4-based Black variants across the product range. Admittedly most are just different barrel lengths, stocks etc.

[Bencupra]

I was going to go for a TM 417 gen2 as a backup weapon but from what I've been hearing TM are not as good as they use to be. Want a good aeg has to be metal and think Krytac appears to be the way forward.

[ImTriggerHappy]

I was going to go for a TM 417 gen2 as a backup weapon but from what I've been hearing TM are not as good as they use to be. Want a good aeg has to be metal and think Krytac appears to be the way forward.

Tm are exactly as good as they used to be and thats the problem.

If left alone they are ok but not outstanding in any area but if you are willing to spend a few quid on upgrades they become one of the best again.

Tm really need to improve the materials they use on the gearbox and improve the motors and chuck in a basic mosfet, all the things that you would expect on a £400 plus gun.

The 417 is very nice looking I prefer it over the krytacs it just needs a few upgrades to get it perfect.

 

To answer the original question a huge resounding yes. The combat machine range has some good starting guns and the a few of the non AR15 range are ok but once you get into the mid price range there is always somewhere better to spend your money.

[Sitting Duck]

Thing is the china guns like Cyma JG etc.... have upped their game and are just as good internally as many others now in the £150 price range

Note I said - INTERNALLY - G&G plastic/poly receivers are still very good in that area

 

Other people have popped up with in effect better assembled internals to distinguish them from say the £150 starters

There is no TM Fairy Dust - these new mid end guns are just better assembled with a bit more thought and attention to detail/improvements

 

I can't really see any manufacture spending time shimming every box to close perfection as possible

but I can see some using decent gears that space up well with sufficient tooth width to engage well

decent bushings, decent grease and a basic outline of assembly shimming that is reasonable to begin with

Above all the parts motor and stuff all tried and tested without cutting costs no matter what - helping to ensure each is a decent build

 

Wiring - wtf is the difference between some old thin crap and some half decent stuff

AoE - f*ck me G&G remove 2nd tooth so wtf just shove on an extra bit of rubber to get it at least half correct

Mosfet - can be shoved together for what £5 in bulk ??

 

So those three improvements would be much more than say £10 or $10

add in some other minor minor tweaks of better stuff instead of cheap stuff - say another tenner

 

Call it £25 or £40 if they chucked in a modest neodym motor along with fet

Be honest they could maybe get this down to £30 or so easily I'd say

but they haven't so others have taken the lead and it does show it seems

 

The others are probably not got the ability to save costs like a major player like G&G have

but for not much more than a mid G&G the other guns are showing the difference and gaining popularity simply because of this

plus they seem to not trying to run before they can walk and actually caring about their product as well as their customers & airsoft community

 

OK I'm sure Krytac, LCT etc.. are not flawlessly perfect - what is in real life but they are making in roads into the market quickly

Whilst the more established companies just seem to be churning revamped same ol' same ol' along with ideas that don't quite cut it

 

There is no super duper £150 gun, but at £300+ or so there are good guns available and most are not the better £150 gun versions

 

If I was G&G and some others I would certainly make sure my £250+ guns are put together better immediately

sod the CM range they can use up all the run of the mill cheapy crap around - sorry newcomers but what you expect for such value starters

but to ensure the TopTech stuff is worthy of its label - I'd sure as hell make sure it could hold up & perform like some of the competition that is gaining ground very quickly

 

If customers spend £100 to £150 or so more, then after metal receiver they should still get improvements in nigh every area including assembly and customer service - sorry ETU owners but we spent ya money already

[Baz JJ]

G&G are trading off their name and starting to concentrate on gimmicks IMHO.

They already get a fair share of the starter gun market and I suspect their M4 sales figures aren't being harmed yet.

 

TM have been successful because like a lot of Japanese companies, they concentrate on detail. However, they are an expensive base - the "cost of living" in Japan is expensive and I suspect they still assemble in Japan. Many of the Chinese companies have copied TM going back and used the cheaper labour manufacturing base of PRC and Taiwan to offer cheaper products.

 

Krytac arent a serious threat yet because they cant get their products out. A US marketing company using carefully selected quality components could be a threat to reckon with if they get their production up to speed. As I understand it, UK retailers are reluctant to buy Mk1 stock knowing the Mk2 is coming.

 

This is not an airsoft thing - this is a pattern in world manufacturing.

[Sacarathe]

Wow duck, just wow.

[Sitting Duck]

G&G are trading off their name and starting to concentrate on gimmicks IMHO.

They already get a fair share of the starter gun market and I suspect their M4 sales figures aren't being harmed yet.

 

TM have been successful because like a lot of Japanese companies, they concentrate on detail. However, they are an expensive base - the "cost of living" in Japan is expensive and I suspect they still assemble in Japan. Many of the Chinese companies have copied TM going back and used the cheaper labour manufacturing base of PRC and Taiwan to offer cheaper products.

 

Krytac arent a serious threat yet because they cant get their products out. A US marketing company using carefully selected quality components could be a threat to reckon with if they get their production up to speed. As I understand it, UK retailers are reluctant to buy Mk1 stock knowing the Mk2 is coming.

 

This is not an airsoft thing - this is a pattern in world manufacturing.

 

Think G&G might notice the ETU kickback though, it ain't gonna win more orders if ya £250 Predator has PMS and just turns all weird without warning

And yanks aren't that fond of G&G anyway

which brings onto Echo1 JG rebrand & Krytac in a similar of doing the job properly - well better

(still think yanks dislike G&G maybe coz they couldn't get a heavily discounted deal going for rebranding a G&G into a Made in USA gun)

 

off topic - but my company are a bit like G&G in the way they seem to have sat back and let others play catch up or come out with some daft ideas at times

G&G will be fine, still #1 and all the PR and sponsorship etc.... but their reputation has taken a bit of a hammering by their airsofting customers/community

 

Tokyo Marui - can't comment on them but sounds like they too need a little kick up the ar$e a bit perhaps

 

I'm just hoping that established companies keep their eyes on the ball, good luck to any new companies having a go - competition is good for all of us

We are still doing ok - loads of choices and in general we are getting better value for money stuff

Hoping the old boys start to turn it around a little - not so much for the company's sake but more so for the owner's sake

Who wants to be told - oooh G&G - I used to have one of them but then I bought myself a proper gun

or

Wow - haven't seen one of those in a while - and it still works, that is rare....

 

OK - don't think I can say much more - well yeah I can but most of you fell asleep hours ago

happy shooting whatever toy gun ya use, if it works, you are happy then that is all that matters x x x

[Allizard]

 

 

which brings onto Echo1 JG rebrand & Krytac in a similar of doing the job properly - well better

 

 

Whoa... stop right there. Are you implying KRYTAC is a rebrand?

[Sacarathe]

Whoa... stop right there. Are you implying KRYTAC is a rebrand?

L2English.

[Allizard]

L2English.

 

So I presume I am required to write proper Queen's English here.

[ImTriggerHappy]

 

So I presume I am required to write proper Queen's English here.

Don't worry no one else does.

The only thing you need to do on here is sell your brand and explain why UK Krytacs have a crap 20k motor?

[Allizard]

Don't worry no one else does.

The only thing you need to do on here is sell your brand and explain why UK Krytacs have a crap 20k motor?

 

I wouldn't call the 20k Crap. That's bit unkind. The fact is, we were told by the distributor that 350FPS is the limit in UK so we have to re-tune the gun with m100 spring. Using a strong neodymium magnet motor like the 30K + 11.1v Lipo will cause over-spin with SEMI fire. That is why we installed a standard motor.

 

For the record, the 20k motor can still pull m120 spring respectively.

 

Hey... as least we stopped using that hideous sticker on the stock. I told you we are listening.

 

Cheers.

[Sacarathe]

So I presume I am required to write proper Queen's English here.

I figured L2Read would be offensive.

 

You can write whatever you like.

 

I wouldn't call the 20k Crap. That's bit unkind. The fact is, we were told by the distributor that 350FPS is the limit in UK so we have to re-tune the gun with m100 spring. Using a strong neodymium magnet motor like the 30K + 11.1v Lipo will cause over-spin with SEMI fire. That is why we installed a standard motor.

 

The fact that there is currently legislation going through our Parliament at the moment is all the proof you need that your distributor is fully of sh*t. Still, its really good that you're willing to optimise your goods for other markets.

 

Might I ask, generally 11.1 is the least common voltage I have encountered in use, are you saying that you put in the 20K motor on the off chance that if someone applied a 11.1 battery the gun might not operate as expected? Wouldn't it have been easier just to say "do not use with 11.1" rather than making changes?

Edited March 22, 2016 by Sacarathe

[ImTriggerHappy]

Unkind but true ☺

But if you use the 30k with a 7.4v lipo and an m100 it works lovely and means people don't have to swap the motor out for a lonex or ultimate motor (both of which are cheaper than your 30k) to get the same trigger response as you get with the 30k motor.

Yes you're listening but it is a bit of a mistake. I am not saying your guns are awful because they are not I have recommended them to enough people (probably responsible for more sales than your nonexistent UK advertising) just trying to nudge you in the right direction.

 

Edit; Might see if I can sue for a sales commission.

[Sitting Duck]

Whoa... stop right there. Are you implying KRYTAC is a rebrand?

 

It was the bit:

 

Doing the job properly - well better

 

Echo take JG n others and improve upon them

And meant Krytac = job properly as well

well better - meaning always room for improvement

 

Eg mk2 and could use 30k, m120 and SS like TM Hi cycle

 

But yeah kinda understand 20k a bit to prolong life a bit if nutters wanna run 11.1v on STD m100 setup etc...

 

Also I'm sure if UK specs were running quicker than US some may not like that too much

[Guest PT247]

I run both a 20k motor and a 30k motor on my Krytacs. The 20k on 7.4 is a bit sluggish but shoots amazing at 350fps. The 30k with an 11.1 is fantastic and shoots at 410fps on the SPR. I have actually fitted the PDW upper onto my SPR lower so was shooting around 350fps on the 30k motor and using an 11.1v battery, the gun ran fantastically, so well I am actually tempted to run that setup as my normal set up. I don't get why Krytac or the UK distributor if it was from them think that it won't run right, the only reason I can think for giving us the 20k motor is to save them money.

[Allizard]

I figured L2Read would be offensive.

 

You can write whatever you like.

 

 

The fact that there is currently legislation going through our Parliament at the moment is all the proof you need that your distributor is fully of sh*t. Still, its really good that you're willing to optimise your goods for other markets.

 

Might I ask, generally 11.1 is the least common voltage I have encountered in use, are you saying that you put in the 20K motor on the off chance that if someone applied a 11.1 battery the gun might not operate as expected? Wouldn't it have been easier just to say "do not use with 11.1" rather than making changes?

 

Excellent question.

 

11.1v is the most common here in US. You don't find many players using 7.4v. UK market is new to us and we do depend on what our distributor told us. If UK legislation said 400+ FPS is allowed then it's a lot easier on us. Actually if you can provide the actual link would be great.

 

It is possible the gun or ANY gun will fire a double shot on SEMI when you paired a high torque motor with a Sub-m120 spring plus high discharged 11.1v lipo. we see it more often here in US as I'd just explained. Especially those people who love to use high C rating batteries from RC hobbyist.

 

The 1st batch of Krytac guns when to UK does have the 30K motor. (20K motor wasn't available at time) and the gun have m105 spring. We know is it very likely a 11.1v lipo will over spin and cause the double shoot. We did included a label with the gun to recommend using 7.4 or 9.6v.

 

See attach pic.

 

With that said, I admit we were a bit ill prepared for the UK market and it's generally unknown territory for us. This is why I begin to visit UK forums and try to get to know more people. So.... let me know if you've got any suggestions. Our position toward airsoft community hasn't changed. All of us in the US office also play airsoft. We just want to make something that fit what the player's want. We are pretty successful in US and in Japan. I think we can do the same for UK and EU. Just give us sometime to hash out the details.

 

For those you like to contact me on Facebook. Just search for Kriss Allen.

 

Allen Lau

Product Manager

KRISS USA

[ImTriggerHappy]

 

11.1v is the most common here in US. You don't find many players using 7.4v. UK market is new to us and we do depend on what our distributor told us.

 

With that said, I admit we were a bit ill prepared for the UK market and it's generally unknown territory for us. This is why I begin to visit UK forums and try to get to know more people. So.... let me know if you've got any suggestions. Our position toward airsoft community hasn't changed. All of us in the US office also play airsoft. We just want to make something that fit what the player's want. We are pretty successful in US and in Japan. I think we can do the same for UK and EU. Just give us sometime to hash out the details.

Krytac have done a good job so far and have obviously listened to what players want. Just carry on doing that and keep the QC standards high and I am sure you will end up with a bigger market share.

 

Have you thought about a different distributor or having more direct contact with the sales outlets yourselves. It seems like they dont understand the market and are the thing thats letting you down more than your actual product.

As I pointed out earlier the advertising and product promotion has been poor and most of your sales success has happened because of word of mouth.