advice on my first gun

[Black_rat]

Hello there,

 

I have been reading a few posts and I have learned few things.

 

I have been paintballing for the past 20 years now, at most levels ranging from tournament player back when pumps were used to a walk on's more recently.

 

I have looked at a few online videos and this has brought up even more questions

 

first off the gun,

 

I understand the UKARA license that is needed, so that bit is a given.

 

I have been looking at a sniper rifle as a first gun, something like the dragnov or bolt action rifle, I have seen a nice relatively cheap one online ( I am not after a dear one as my first one). any hints one this front would be grateful. only thing is the gun I was looking at is rated 450 fps, I am assuming there are springs that can be bought to bring that down, also what are the limits for sites, doesn't it vary from site to site or is there a blanket limit that is imposed at every site.

 

I get the gist of the hop up that give the ball spin to add accuracy and distance to the shot, just not sure about he ease of use as I have read about some not being easy t get to during the game. I know I is in the barrel of the gun somewhere, so not a total newbie as such.

 

After watching some videos I was a bit concerned at the minimum range some guys are shooting people at, is there limit to how clos you can shoot someone with a given weapon. such as 10 foot for a sniper rifle, 2 foot for a pistol.

 

what is the best eye protection as I prefer goggles due to having issues with my eyes, seen a few videos of people wearing Oakley sunglasses.

 

thanks for your help

 

 

[TacMaster]

Hi there, welcome to the forum & sport!

 

1. It's a UKARA Defence, not a license. You don't buy it, you play a game day at a single site 3 times in no less than 2 months to be eligible for a UKARA Defence. After registering, you will be put onto the database and be given a unique number which you can then use to buy realistic airsoft guns.
2. It's not advisable to buy a sniper rifle as your first gun. Without upgrades, most are absolutely terrible and will be completely outclassed by electric guns (AEGs). You'd have to spend at least £200-£300 on upgrades on top of the base gun. There are some which don't need as much spent on them, however it's still a lot more than buying a starter AEG and all the bits to go with it.
3. There's a bit of a variation in site FPS limits, there are official ones stated in the VCRA but sites have their own limits below these. It's usually like this: Sniper rifles 450 FPS or 500 FPS, DMRs (if allowed) 425 FPS max, AEGs 350 FPS, 328 FPS in CQB.
4. The ease of access of the hop up unit depends on the gun. On nearly all, you just pull a cocking handle back and it will be revealed behind a fake bolt carrier or ejection port cover. Hop ups are typically easy to find as they are right at the start of the barrel.
5. The only minimum engagement distances (MEDs) will be for sniper rifles and DMRs, and they're typically 20m for sniper rifles and 15m or so for DMRs.
6. Best eye protection depends on your personal choice, however do not wear normal sunglasses. Those people you saw were idiots, unless they were ballistic rated glasses. You have a choice of clear polycarbonate goggles or mesh goggles. Mesh doesn't fog, however it can be difficult to play in in the dark. You can also get anti-fogging treatments and wipes for goggles. I wouldn't advise wearing ballistic rated glasses as there are gaps for BBs to get into your eyes.

[Black_rat]

Thanks for the advice.

 

I only like the sniper rifle, as I cant seem to find a nice looking SLR replica.

 

is the MED the same for pistols, or again is this across the board.

[TacMaster]

I only like the sniper rifle, as I cant seem to find a nice looking SLR replica.

 

is the MED the same for pistols, or again is this across the board.

 

There is no MED for pistols at all. The only weapon platforms which have MEDs are sniper rifles and DMRs, as explained above.

There's a reason why it's not recommended for newbies to buy sniper rifles- if you're comfortable with spending £££s and many hours tinkering and tweaking a sniper rifle, that's up to you. You won't have an enjoyable experience if it goes wrong.

 

The only L1A1 replicas around are the King Arms ones, which aren't amazing. Tbh before buying anything specialised you'd be best off buying a basic AEG such as a G&G Combat Machine M4/AK or an ICS sportline M4.

[Lozart]

Thanks for the advice.

 

I only like the sniper rifle, as I cant seem to find a nice looking SLR replica.

 

is the MED the same for pistols, or again is this across the board.

 

MEDs are related to the FPS of the gun not the type of gun. Generally an AEG or pistol firing under 350FPS has no MED but DMRs and bolt action sniper rifles with high FPS do. Hence if you get a sniper rifle you'll need a sidearm for when people get inside your MED (either a pistol or an SMG or something similar).

[Sacarathe]

MED is based on muzzle power, in turn measured by muzzle velocities above 350 fps (with 0.2g BB), and not weapon type. Generally its rare to find people using non automatic guns firing between 350 and 400 fps by that test though.

 

Because many AEGs at 350 are allegedly not fully optimised for maximum range/accuracy, stepping up to a semi only DMR firing 400, 425 or 450 FPS (or a higher BASR) only nets a real advantage going from a tuned gun to a tuned gun - where an advantage in relation to cost really emerges.

[Black_rat]

I am just used to regardless, no shooting under a certain distance, thanks for that one.

[Mos]

It's all about the joules. After an extensive thread of people explaining to me (prof,sac) I am here to deliver the good stuff to you. Joules joules joules. Typically, an airsoft skirmish arena has an FPS limit infact, they all do in the uk and other countries too. In most airsoft skirmish arenas the FPS limit is around 350 with 0.2g bbs, depending on which site you go to this may vary. Now, it's not so much an FPS limit, they just say that to stop people getting confused, it's more a joules limit, energy = joules. (There is a joules equation if you want to find out about it google it) if a 0.2g bb travels at 350 FPS and it hits a human, 1.14 joules will be transferred into that human. So therefore, the limit of that site is 1.14 joules. SOME people (I used to think this too) think that their gun is too powerful, and shoots at 450 FPS with 0.2g bbs. Now they're worried that their gun will be rejected when they take the chrono. So they think they'll just chuck in 0.3g bbs to lower their FPS to 350 and they'll be okay? WRONG. If you fired a 0.3g bb at 350 FPS, it will transfer 1.71 joules, and that is cheating, meaning they have a hot gun. If you put this into an extreme, a 10 Ton truck hitting you at 350 FPS would be okay? I think not... So a site with a limit of 350 FPS is really a limit of 1.14 joules (all the site's limits are with 0.2g bbs) here's a picture to help you understand. Just thought I'd say something of use... (FOR AUTOMATIC FIRING GUNS)

 

[Sacarathe]

<no paragraphs>

 

I'd be very surprised someone did not pick up joules and muzzle power in 20 years of paintball. Mos, your facts are almost right, but next time try some original structure in formulation and a few paragraph breaks. Plus, remember that the 0.2g BB does not hit a target and transfer 1.14 J if fired at 350 fps, it transfers the remaining energy up to 1.14J.

 

Take what you learned in the other thread and understand it, that way you can explain it with flexibility rather than verbatim.

 

@OP http://www.airsoftmaster.com/fps-chart-for-airsoft-guns/ - the source explanation for the linked table above. Its a useful table for airsoft.

 

I am just used to regardless, no shooting under a certain distance, thanks for that one.

 

Well, its still a dick move to shoot people under a certain range - if that range was one which you could have reasonably offered them surrender with no loss to yourself. I find surrender takes people less than 5-10 seconds to understand and respond to. Do note some people may shoot back when offered a surrender - in which case, carry on as normal as though a surrender was never offered (hit players are hit).

 

Most sites operate a sort of unofficial H&S rule, that if you offer someone a surrender, while they don't have to take it, if they do they'd just call the hit as normal - if they don't take it you shoot them anyway.

 

There is an oft frowned upon alternative called the bang rule - this just causes arguments in the UK and is to be avoided, the Americans appear to like it though. The bang rule is very different but purposefully the same, it creates an assumption that the attacker has 'hit' the other player by saying bang at close range instead of firing, whereas with surrender the targeted player chooses to take the 'hit'.

 

I've surrendered people at 5 meters and at 20 cm, its all about being a good player. Though for example if you surrender someone whose gun is pointing straight at you (or not) and they shoot you first, you're hit and they're not.

 

 

Alas a regular surrender can become confused too. If you offered someone a surrender and rather than take it they start to turn to shoot you and you fire first, hitting them, but they don't initially react and continue to turn and fire and hit you, but then promptly take the hit you put onto them, it is very easily arguable that they fired while they were 'out' - and while a separate topic for discussion I wanted to include it anyway as its a rare occasion where a hit can be discarded. I'm sure some will disagree.

 

 

Note:

Surrendering works irrespective of whether you have BBs in your gun.

 

EDIT:

 

In light of an accusation that I was unduly rude to another user in this post, I contact them to offer a public apology (as a thread reply) should it in fact be the case that my jovial (but constructive) critique was taken as by them as anything negative, however they replied that they took my comments as part of the greater exchange from another thread as they were intended to be and no feathers were ruffled.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Sacarathe

[Randymanpipe]

As I always ask when this question comes up what sort of site will your regular site be? CQB? Woodland? Bit of both?? Is worth considering because rocking up with a long range sniper rifle to an indoor cqb site would be pretty pointless. Hence the advice 'get an AEG' to start. You can use it pretty much anywhere as long as it's firing within the realms of the sacred 350fps.

[Mos]

I tried xD

[Black_rat]

As for the regular site to play on, no idea yet. This all depends on what is close to me, most of the dual purpose sites are woodland one. Dual purpose as in paintball and airsoft.

 

I know it does matter what weight bb are used in a gun, they all come out the same velocity.

[Sacarathe]

I know it does matter what weight bb are used in a gun, they all come out the same velocity.

 

Electric Airsoft guns most certainly do not work that way in practice. Some Gas and HPA airsoft guns - as with paintball do.

 

(unless you mean't to say 'force')

[ImTriggerHappy]

Just to point out surrendering is for bitches. Dont care if someone's 10 metres or 10 centimetres I am pulling the trigger and expect the same treatment.

At the end of the day if anybody is worried about getting an owie maybe a contact sport is the wrong choice.

Only ever had one person bitch about shooting close, cant tell you my response as swearing is not allowed on the forum.

[Esoterick]

Yeah I agree Trigger I'm not keen on the whole surrendering thing as it just seems a bit pointless. At least with knife kills it's clear they've got you as opposed to possibly got you. Not to mention i've always had issues with people shooting me well after I hit them and some people must do it on purpose as I know some repeat offenders. I'd rather people didn't deliberately shoot me in the head at point blank but then there's shooting people and there's just being a dick.

 

On Sunday a guy on the other team walked right up to me and I twigged he was probably on the other team(it was dark and i'd switched teams late into the day) as he's standing right next to me so I figured i'd let him pass and once I confirmed he had no arm band I'd shoot him. However he realised what was happening just before passing me and said something like "I don't want to get shot and neither do you" so I said let's both just take the hit and started walking back to regen.

 

Personally I didn't care about getting shot point blank as i've drawn on people in that situation before but I thought i'd be nice.

 

Next thing I know my mate is catching up with me as the same guy has just knife killed him. Sod not shooting people when you have the chance.

[ImTriggerHappy]

Surrendering people wouldnt work for me anyway. I play flat out all the time, I have tried being tactical and going slow and I cant. Surrendering people requires you stop and think and that isnt happening when I have an airsoft gun in my hands.

Bull in a china shop is about all I am good at.

[Randymanpipe]

I Just double tap centre mass. Most peeps got rig/vest anyway so no pain and no doubt. Sorted.

[jcheeseright]

Surrender/bang is not my style either. Even at point blank all someone's going to get is a little welt, so why deal with all the faffing about that shouting at people causes? Just put two in their arse/face and move on.

 

Regarding eyepro, oakleys are fine as they're safety rated, I would go for a heavier style frame though like fuel cells or flak jackets. I personally wear a pair of fuel cells with prescription lenses in when I'm using NVGs as they're much lower profile than the ESS safety glasses I use during the daytime.

 

As everyone else has said, a sniper rifle for your first gun is generally a bad choice, not so much that it takes loads of practice or whatever, more just that it's such a niche style of play that very few people really enjoy it. The range advantage to be had is negligible in real terms and the MED you have to suffer for that advantage is extremely limiting. For example, a very well set up sniper rifle can reasonably be expected to hit a stationary target (without wind/foliage in the way) at about 80metres. Lots of places enforce a 30m MED which means over a quarter of your total range is unusable! Add to that the fact that at the extreme end of your range that single BB is carrying very little energy means that people often won't even notice you've hit them can make it very frustrating. I expect getting a perfect one-shot hit on someone's medic pouch hanging out from behind a tree at 80m is really satisfying... having them ignore it because they didn't even register that it had happened would enrage me!

 

That said, you know your own mind better than any of us know it, so maybe that style of play will suit. Have a go with a few rental guns first at a site, maybe ask one of the local bolt action guys if you can have a go on their rifle and see if it meets your expectations... 99% of the time it won't, especially if you've any experience shooting real firearms.

[Josh95]

I wouldnt bother using a "sniper rifle" as your first gun, if youre used to the highspeed of paintball. youll be disapointed

[ImTriggerHappy]

Just put two in their arse/face and move on.

 

Is that for when you cant tell the difference. We have all seen that guy in the safe zone.

[Jedi_Master]

I have yet to be hurt with a pistol hit, even at point blank range. A few weeks ago at The Mall in Reading a member of the other team and I had our pistols out and were clearing a corridor and both went through the same doorway. We shot each other simultaneously, or close enough, that we were both hit. So we said "hit, good shot" and high fived each other before walking back to our respective regen points. Moments like that make the game.

[Black_rat]

thanks for all the advice, it all helps.

[Black_rat]

any downsides to a GBB, looking to run it on HPA to avoid the dreaded gun freeze. Also i still have a few hpa tanks from my paintball set up.

 

on the mask front, I have seen some mesh masks. Does anyone recommend these? I currently have an old scott paintball mask but think it needs replacing.

[jcheeseright]

Running a GBB on HPA has it's own set of downsides... tapping all of the magazines to accept HPA, MUCH slower reloads, etc etc.

GBB on it's own has down sides: smaller magazine capacity, less-good performance in cold weather, cost of magazines.

There are up sides though: GBBs are FUN, the noise and 'recoil' you get from a GBB makes everything better, your playing style would need to adapt too, having fewer than 2-300 shots available for a whole game means that you'll need to be much more conservative with your shooting and much more accurate. I find the challenge really rewarding vs spray and pray with a hi-cap.

[Black_rat]

I agree with the noise of a GBB firing, that is what has drawn me to it as well as the recoil.

 

I am not a spray and pray type of person, i miss the pump days of paintballing. It was quality of the shooter not the amount shot that always won.