Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted February 13, 2012 Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 Ok, so I've got my L85, M16 and if my brother decides against selling it, an M14 as well that I want to get into the guts of and get them all running as consistently as is humanly possible, like 5fps variation per shot or something. So I'm making this to get to the bottom of what I don't know, what I'm unaware of thus far and what I'll need to know how to do in order to increase consistency. So first off, the terminology, I see and hear all sorts of words thrown around that I can't work out or find an online explanation for. So, what is/are: Bushings - Always hearing about 7 or 8mm bushings, what's the deal with that? Bearings Tappet plates Shimming gears? What role do they play in the gun, where are they located and if replacements can be bought, what enhancements do the new parts offer over the currently fitted ones? I'll add more terms as I think of them, feel free to outline other parts you think the names of don't explain what the part does. What would be great and might serve a purpose in teaching people new to the sport, as well as me, is if someone could write out a sort of flowchart or diagram, with a run down of what happens in chronological order, from the moment of pulling the trigger, to the BB being fired. So like, Trigger pulled - signal sent to motor - motor turns etc etc but including the technical terms and an explanation of what the terms mean, if you get me? Moving on from that, how would I increase consistency in an AEG? Thanks in advance for help given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreym Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AEG.gif might help tappet plates are the bits mounted on the outside of the gearbox which turn with the selector switch to determine whether you are firing semi-full-safe. don't quote me on this, but from what i understood, bushings and shims are the same thing, they are there to raise/lower the gears in the gearbox to allow the gears to engage each other more freely, normally this increases the longevity of the gun and gets rid of whining sounds. bearings i'd assume were ball bearings, otherwise see above. and if by consistency you mean FPS and Range, good spring, and a TM Hop system. Many people say to input a good but cheap piston to act as a circuit breaker, i personally disagree, get a "deep fire" piston and without fail at least once every 2 months take apart your gearbox to lube and check for cracks (only ever use tiny amounts of grease). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicaldr Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 That's a cool ani gif As with "geoffreym" don't quote me, I am no expert but my understanding was the bushing is the insert you put into the gearbox case. My original ones were in plastic and they reduce the gearbox 'hole' size to match the pin sticking out of the gear. They come in 6, 7, and 8mm sizes depending on the size of the holes in the gearbox (I had to buy 6mm and went with metal to replace the dead plastic which had snapped). You can also get them in oil retaining, ball bearing and other flavours. Shims are as geoffreym's comments, small discs of metal (washers to me but much thinner) which you put under gears to help sort out spacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted February 13, 2012 Author Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 Marksman's PM'd me a pretty good terminology breakdown so I'm all good on that now. Now it's just a case of finding out what I'll need to improve consistency and which upgradable parts are compatible. I also have yet to experience the joys of dismantling my gearbox... Not looking forward to that very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicaldr Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Marksman's PM'd me a pretty good terminology breakdown so I'm all good on that now. Now it's just a case of finding out what I'll need to improve consistency and which upgradable parts are compatible. I also have yet to experience the joys of dismantling my gearbox... Not looking forward to that very much. One thing I can suggest, start with a clear table and plan to put it all back together at the same session. Ban dogs, cats, kids and anything else from work area as some of the small bits are a pain if they get moved (Speaking from experience where despite putting everything in a big plastic box the anti-reversal latch spring still went AWOL on me ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tariq Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Same thing happened to be when i took my bike apart XD Lost many screws that day although it wasnt pets, it was the neighbours kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF-UK Founding Member Deva Posted February 13, 2012 AF-UK Founding Member Share Posted February 13, 2012 If you could share marksman's PM for the benefit of all that would be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted February 13, 2012 Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 http://www.wikihow.com/Upgrade-an-Airsoft-AEG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rock-climby-Dave Posted February 13, 2012 Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 Tappet plates ARE NOT the part that determines fire-mode. That would be your selector plate. Tappet plates pull the air nozzle out of the way of the feed. They are attatched to the air nozzle, fit through a slot in the cylinder head, have a spring pulling them forwards and are pulled backwards by a small notch on the sector gear. Bearings and Bushings are similar, they are what fit into the 6/7/8mm gearbox shell to make the holes a uniform and precise size for the gear shaftf to fit in. Bushings are simpley machined parts, bearings are bushings which spin more freely - in general use bearings, less wear and a higher ROF, use bushings for high stress jobs. Shims are very thin, very accurate metal washers (they are often quoted in 4/5 sizes of 0.1mm, 0.15mm, 0.2mm and 0.3mm), they are used to space the often poorly fitting components (gears in particular) this means the gears wobble less, are aligned better and basically they make the gears run smoother with no clashing or interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR01 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You might find these videos useful. http://www.mechbox.com/mechbox/v2-mechbox-...ng-upgrade.html Gives a good explanation of how to strip and rebuild various gearboxes, although to me the easiest is the G&G / Army L85 series (not shown). Dead simple to take apart and repair, compared to a TM style V2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rock-climby-Dave Posted February 13, 2012 Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 are you actually insane, good man??! They are appauling and I hate them and they should die in the firey pits of hell for all eternity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR01 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 are you actually insane, good man??! They are appauling and I hate them and they should die in the firey pits of hell for all eternity! No, dead easy to work on. A bit of a poor design but I've got three Army L85s that I've sorted the gearboxes on and all working fine now. The split gearbox is so much easier to put together, especially if you want to do a spring change. I spent hours over the weekend trying to get a V2 gearbox sorted. You need three or four hands to put those together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 No, dead easy to work on. A bit of a poor design but I've got three Army L85s that I've sorted the gearboxes on and all working fine now. The split gearbox is so much easier to put together, especially if you want to do a spring change. I spent hours over the weekend trying to get a V2 gearbox sorted. You need three or four hands to put those together. Dave's a bit touchy on the subject of R85s after I gave him my old R85 about... almost a year and a half ago, to 'play' with. I'd had it 'repaired' (and I wish this was an exaggeration) 6 times before, 4 of those problems completely different, and after getting a 'proper' AEG, let Dave see if he could fix it. Since then, it's been converted into a collection of scrap metal on Dave's floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted February 13, 2012 Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 I've not been in an R85 but RR01 only says the gearbox is easy, not the whole gun- maybe thats where different opinions come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I think Dave feels a combination of the design, gear box and electronics are to blame. The one time Dave fixed it properly - he'd just rebuilt it for me - he fired 10 shots - fine. 11th? Gearbox exploded again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rock-climby-Dave Posted February 13, 2012 Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 Literally exploded. no other gearbox has ever done that to me. ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted February 13, 2012 Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 ah, I see, that could be... problamatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters TPI Posted February 13, 2012 Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 Nah its Dave's fault definetly... I kid i kid i just don't like anything not standard "TM" V2 i find most anything else annoying apart from Glock's they just seem obvious to me at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rock-climby-Dave Posted February 13, 2012 Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 I quite like V3's, they're nice and straightforwards too (read "are basically Version 2's'") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted February 13, 2012 Author Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hmm, none of this exactly fills me with confidence... Anyone have any experience with the ICS L85? I think that's what I'll work on first. Where's Mr. Finius? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hmm, none of this exactly fills me with confidence... Anyone have any experience with the ICS L85? I think that's what I'll work on first. Where's Mr. Finius? If it's any help, during my 8 months of researching airsoft SA80s to replace my AA model, the only forum posts (searched a lot of forums) about ICS L85s that had variants of the phrase "...so now my gun's buggered..." were almost always* started off with "I thought it'd be a great idea to open my gun and fiddle with the gearbox..." *There are of course exceptions, but these seemed were incredibly rare. Unless the ICS owning community cba to visit forums... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted February 13, 2012 Author Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 Really not helping with the confidence there Hubert lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yeah, in hindsight I realise I didn't quite understand what you were trying to ask, and didn't phrase my answer properly anyway. Trying to say that of the few times I've seen people posting "HALP!!1!11!!!", it's almost always been down to a potentially inexperienced owner breaking/losing something, rather than the design of gun itself being so bad it's impossible to work on. Youtube it, I'm pretty sure there are more than a few people who've posted "how to take apart an ICS L85" (And maybe they show you how to put it back together too!) Alternatively - save your cash, experiment on an old/broken gearbox and get a payed gunsmith to do the job you actually want doing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted February 13, 2012 Author Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2012 Trying to say that of the few times I've seen people posting "HALP!!1!11!!!", it's almost always been down to the owner breaking/losing something, rather than the gun itself. Youtube it, I'm pretty sure there are more than a few people who've posted "how to take apart an ICS L85" (And maybe they show you how to put it back together too!) Alternatively - save your cash, experiment on an old/broken gearbox and get a payed gunsmith to do the job you actually want doing... I would just pay someone to do it, but I don't know of any shops that employ someone with that level of know-how. If what Finius did to his doesn't sound too complicated then I might just be able to do it myself, it's worth a try. If I end up totally FUBARing it, I'll just buy a new gearbox/motor set lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreym Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 That's a cool ani gif As with "geoffreym" don't quote me, I am no expert but my understanding was the bushing is the insert you put into the gearbox case. My original ones were in plastic and they reduce the gearbox 'hole' size to match the pin sticking out of the gear. They come in 6, 7, and 8mm sizes depending on the size of the holes in the gearbox (I had to buy 6mm and went with metal to replace the dead plastic which had snapped). You can also get them in oil retaining, ball bearing and other flavours. Shims are as geoffreym's comments, small discs of metal (washers to me but much thinner) which you put under gears to help sort out spacing. Tappet plates ARE NOT the part that determines fire-mode. That would be your selector plate. Tappet plates pull the air nozzle out of the way of the feed. They are attatched to the air nozzle, fit through a slot in the cylinder head, have a spring pulling them forwards and are pulled backwards by a small notch on the sector gear. Bearings and Bushings are similar, they are what fit into the 6/7/8mm gearbox shell to make the holes a uniform and precise size for the gear shaftf to fit in. Bushings are simpley machined parts, bearings are bushings which spin more freely - in general use bearings, less wear and a higher ROF, use bushings for high stress jobs. Shims are very thin, very accurate metal washers (they are often quoted in 4/5 sizes of 0.1mm, 0.15mm, 0.2mm and 0.3mm), they are used to space the often poorly fitting components (gears in particular) this means the gears wobble less, are aligned better and basically they make the gears run smoother with no clashing or interference. well i haven't yet broken a rifle, so i'm giving myself a pat on the back, and even though i don't know the names of the parts, i can still strip and clean one very well. (that wasn't meant in sarcasm, i learnt the hard way how to do things lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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