Selling RIFs - VCRA Defence/UKARA Checks?

[Kha0s]

Hi! Apologies if this has been answered previously, but I've had a look through a bunch of threads, read the classifieds banner, done some google searches and had a look through some of the legislation, but couldn't find a definitive answer. My understanding is that anyone selling airsoft weapons is personally responsible for verifying that whoever they are selling to has a VCRA defense, whether that be through UKARA registration or otherwise. I just wanted some guidance on how people generally achieve this? From what I gather, it's not possible to search the UKARA database as an individual - only registered retailers have access. Do I need to ask for details of where people regularly play and then verify that with the site operators? Could I be held liable for just accepting a UKARA registration number from someone if I don't have any way to confirm if it's valid?

[Adolf Hamster]

everyone kinda has their own standard.

 

what i typically would have done was asked for ukara, then seen if the site code exists on the ukara site listing.

 

if i'm feeling a little sus i at least see if it's in the same general region (eg a mainlander isn't giving me an ni site code).

 

otherwise i just slap the number on the box and call it good.

 

i've also had folk give me re-enactor id (afaik re-enactor id is only good for relevant pews, ie you can't sell an m4 to a ww2 re-enactor, although in my case that didn't apply), and once dispatched a pew via a local shop we both knew. in buying i have had folk either not ask or even accept my forum presence as a player, although ironically my forum presence would now be a tad deceiving as i'm not playing these days.

 

end of the day the requirement is that you're satisfied the person your selling your gun-shaped-object to is going to use it for airsoft pewing or other permitted activity, and afaik there isn't any real definition/precedent as to how much effort needs to be put into verification.

[Tommikka]

You are correct that it is the seller who is legally liable under the VCRA with regard to a defence for a RIF sale

 

But this does not mean that you must explicitly verify against the UKARA or other scheme, there have been verification services, but probably due to a combination of cost, resources and ensuring confidentiality there isn’t a UKARA public/self validation service

(A secure process that doesn’t over expose content would be GDPR compliant as the purpose is validation - but there could still be a consent issue on public validation rather than controlled access etc - and retailer members of the UKARA may also prefer that there isn’t a public option)

 

You just need to apply some common sense due diligence, which is also likely to minimise you getting to the point of needing to back up your decision to sell

 

Does the buyer act old enough to buy an airsoft gun (RIF or IF) and for RIFs do they appear to be buying for a valid use?

Be extra cautious in the school holidays, if on this forum do they have a posting history (don’t sell a RIF to me because I don’t play airsoft and have said so many times - therefore my forum membership content  is evidence of my lack of valid purpose)

 

You can ask, and their member site may also be happy with validating them

 

PS if they tell you they have JustCos membership then refuse the sale 

[ak2m4]

57 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

(A secure process that doesn’t over expose content would be GDPR compliant as the purpose is validation - but there could still be a consent issue on public validation rather than controlled access etc - and retailer members of the UKARA may also prefer that there isn’t a public option)

Yep went down that road, had a nice prototype system knocked up but based on feedback security / gdpr was a big concern and increasing cost to the project.   I agree it's not in the interest of the controlling members of UKARA to encourage sales of 2nd hand rifs.  

[Cannonfodder]

I've heard some people ask a local shop to check the ukara database. Alternatively if the sale is through here have a look at the 'how did your airsoft day go' thread, if they've posted there then there's a high chance they're a player. The loadout pictures thread is also a good place to check as pictures there are often taken in game.

 

In general trust your gut and treat all sales like a packet of meat that's been in the fridge for a while. If it smells even slightly funky don't bother

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Kha0s said:

Do I need to ask for details of where people regularly play and then verify that with the site operators?

 

Good, in principle. But also in principle, they shouldn't be telling you without getting into an affirmative-ongoing-consent three-way with the buyer.

 

 

2 hours ago, Kha0s said:

Could I be held liable for just accepting a UKARA registration number from someone if I don't have any way to confirm if it's valid?

 

You could, and you're right to ask the question and be ready to adduce some form of defence.

 

In practice, if it's moving inside the UK, it's vanishingly unlikely that it'll ever be an issue.

 

I'd be more concerned about the courier losing, stealing, breaking, or crushing it without compensation rather than legal consequences.

[Kha0s]

Thanks for the advice everyone! Sounds like if I make a genuine effort to check they have some sort of VCRA defence and apply a bit of common sense, that should be sufficient. As some of you have mentioned, it's (hopefully) very unlikely someone is going to be irresponsible with anything I've sold, so chances of me having to prove my innocence in any way is pretty slim! Really appreciate the help 👍