New Player Looking for Advice on First AEG & Modding Options

[Twist]

Hi everyone, I'm a new player and have a few questions I'm hoping someone/manyones can help with.
I currently have nothing in my arsenal and I'm looking at getting a cheap(ish) M4-type AEG as my first AEG. I’d also like to convert it into a stubby, since I'm only wee and M4s are a little cumbersome for me as standard.

My questions are:

How viable/doable is converting a base M4 type to a stubby? 
Where can I find good, trusted sources for barrels/upgrades/parts?
Would a modification like this significantly affect the performance of the AEG?
 

If converting an M4 type to be stubby isn't doable or would embugger the guns performance too much my next question would be...
Does anyone have any practical/first-hand info on the Evolution Reaper XS EMR Carbontech AR-9 SMG AEG, I've found a cheap starter kit and I really don't want to break the bank on my first AEG?
Unfortunately the only things I can find on YT about it are from folk that have been sent the Reaper XS by the company, so it's hard to know how honest they are being in their reviews (that and they're in French, German and Spanish and the auto translated subs aren't too fantastic).

Thanks in advance.

[Tackle]

Welcome, I've not heard of the gun mentioned,  that could be a good or a bad thing, but someone will be along soon to enlighten us.

As for altering an m4, why, when there are already lots of stubby models available off the shelf (& often in the classifieds here), & they'll be set up to perform pretty much at the best of their abilities.

Alternatively there are plenty of other models available with short foregrips & sliding stocks, mp5k pdw's, G3 sas or mc51 immediately come to mind, I'm sure there's lots of others.

 

Edit: since posting, I had a quick skim in the classifieds here:

https://airsoft-forums.uk/classifieds/category/4-electric-rifles/

First couple of pages saw loads of possible contenders, & at good prices for a starter gun

 

Edited Sunday at 14:46 by Tackle

[Skara]

You can change the barrel and handguard on any M4 to the desired length, but you're just starting out so you're better off with an off the shelf short gun.

Go for polymer receivers too, they save a lot of weight and cost.

 

Evolution is decent, on par with Specna and Dboys (their polymer body series all come from the same factory, so pick whatever you like).

 

I would personally stay away from the 9mm platform unless you REALLY like the looks, magazines tend to be kind of bad and they're not always cross compatible between brands, whereas regular M4 mags are essentially universal, plus you have plenty of options depending on budget.

 

On the technical side, barrel length doesn't do much in terms of range/accuracy so I wouldn't think too much about it (all my V2 based guns have barrels 155/185mm long).

Edited Sunday at 14:49 by Skara

[Twist]

19 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Welcome, I've not heard of the gun mentioned,  that could be a good or a bad thing, but someone will be along soon to enlighten us.

As for altering an m4, why, when there are already lots of stubby models available off the shelf (& often in the classifieds here), & they'll be set up to perform pretty much at the best of their abilities.

Alternatively there are plenty of other models available with short foregrips & sliding stocks, mp5k pdw's, G3 sas or mc51 immediately come to mind, I'm sure there's lots of others.

 

Edit: since posting, I had a quick skim in the classifieds here:

https://airsoft-forums.uk/classifieds/category/4-electric-rifles/

First couple of pages saw loads of possible contenders, & at good prices for a starter gun

 

The why:  I like tinkering with things and it's the sort of thing that will enhance my knowledge base for future purchases without breaking the bank if I bugger something up.
Thanks for having a look for me I'll have a gander myself.

[ButcherBill]

It you're looking for a rif to tinker with & learn to 'mod', why not buy any number of two tones advertised in the classifieds? They all work in pretty much the same way but with different quality of parts. Better to screw up a £50-100 plinker than buy a dearer rif then spend wads upgrading it with little to no knowledge and being left with a bag of bits.

[Twist]

17 minutes ago, Skara said:

You can change the barrel and handguard on any M4 to the desired length, but you're just starting out so you're better off with an off the shelf short gun.

Go for polymer receivers too, they save a lot of weight and cost.

 

Evolution is decent, on par with Specna and Dboys (their polymer body series all come from the same factory, so pick whatever you like).

 

I would personally stay away from the 9mm platform unless you REALLY like the looks, magazines tend to be kind of bad and they're not always cross compatible between brands, whereas regular M4 mags are essentially universal, plus you have plenty of options depending on budget.

 

On the technical side, barrel length doesn't do much in terms of range/accuracy so I wouldn't think too much about it (all my V2 based guns have barrels 155/185mm long).

Thanks.
Looks don't matter all that much as it's my first AEG.
Yeah the Reaper (for me) is the nicer looking out of the stubby/smg/small type guns (except for a P90 but that's one for later, I hope) but it's more the 46cm size that I like, that and it's cost.
You're spot on with the magazine point and it's the main thing that puts me off the Reaper, most folk I know have tons of M4 mags, so hot swapping mid skirmish would be easier.
I was looking for a 1200 round box/drum mag for it but I have no idea if the one I was looking at would fit.

'Looks' I can get on an M4 via customisation and will get some experience in modding without the fear of breaking something and it costing me too much as I would think the parts market of them is pretty big.

I think what I'm suffering from is analysis paralysis 😆

 

[Tackle]

32 minutes ago, Twist said:

The why:  I like tinkering with things and it's the sort of thing that will enhance my knowledge base for future purchases without breaking the bank if I bugger something up.
Thanks for having a look for me I'll have a gander myself.

You wanna play or you want to tinker ?

If it's your first gun you can't do both, get a gun for playing, AND LEAVE IT ALONE UNTIL SOMETHING BREAKS.

& maybe get something cheap, from the boneyard section, plenty of online tutorials for gearboxes, etc.

If your try tinkering with your first gun, & it then dies on its first outing, you lose money, green fees, travel costs, & a wasted day.

 

 

[Twist]

19 minutes ago, ButcherBill said:

It you're looking for a rif to tinker with & learn to 'mod', why not buy any number of two tones advertised in the classifieds? They all work in pretty much the same way but with different quality of parts. Better to screw up a £50-100 plinker than buy a dearer rif then spend wads upgrading it with little to no knowledge and being left with a bag of bits.

That's sort of the plan, something cheap (and hopefully somewhat small) that isn't too expensive. Modifying was something I would have considered to be a little further down the line but I'd happily go with a cheap M4 type and learn sooner rather than later. 

I was hoping to go new as that way I know, as a baseline, what to expect. A preowned might be modified in way I don't know about/understand, whereas buying cheap(ish) and new allows for a base of comparison in the future, if that makes sense.

[Tackle]

16 minutes ago, Twist said:

Thanks.
Looks don't matter all that much as it's my first AEG.
Yeah the Reaper (for me) is the nicer looking out of the stubby/smg/small type guns (except for a P90 but that's one for later, I hope) but it's more the 46cm size that I like, that and it's cost.
You're spot on with the magazine point and it's the main thing that puts me off the Reaper, most folk I know have tons of M4 mags, so hot swapping mid skirmish would be easier.
I was looking for a 1200 round box/drum mag for it but I have no idea if the one I was looking at would fit.

'Looks' I can get on an M4 via customisation and will get some experience in modding without the fear of breaking something and it costing me too much as I would think the parts market of them is pretty big.

I think what I'm suffering from is analysis paralysis 😆

 

Noooo, a stubby m4 with a box mag, & you want to upgrade before you've used your gun...........😱

[Twist]

4 minutes ago, Tackle said:

You wanna play or you want to tinker ?

If it's your first gun you can't do both, get a gun for playing, AND LEAVE IT ALONE UNTIL SOMETHING BREAKS.

& maybe get something cheap, from the boneyard section, plenty of online tutorials for gearboxes, etc.

If your try tinkering with your first gun, & it then dies on its first outing, you lose money, green fees, travel costs, & a wasted day.

 

 

I want to play mainly and would be using whatever I get for the next few of sessions I have coming up unmodified.
I just wanted to more find out if I could modify an M4 type to be a stubby and if it would effect the gun significantly in a negative way, I feel that would be a fun project in the future and like I said, I like to tinker. The choice between the ar9 style and m4 style is mainly one of size and as I was seeing cheap M4s new my thinking was that I could go the M4 route now and later down the road make it more to my liking whilst bagging some knowledge. 

5 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Noooo, a stubby m4 with a box mag, & you want to upgrade before you've used your gun...........😱

Not a box mag on a stubby m4, I meant a box mag on the Reaper as the 'highcap' for them is something like 200 rounds which is less than half the capacity of a high cap m4 mag. 
Though now that you say that I might just do it and after that a belt fed P90...

[Rogerborg]

No worries, we get it. tinkering can be as much fun as playing.  You can chop down or replace the barrel and handguard of any M4, it's a question of how neat you want it to look, or how much you want to spend in order to end up with a gun that you could have bought in the first place.  I'd agree that anything more than 6" is just bragging when it comes to barrels for a ~1.1J AEG

 

But can we establish whether it's length or weight that we're talking about?

 

If it's weight, then a basic dirt cheap CYMA M4 with a 260mm inner comes in at 1.7kg - that's not a recommendation to get one, because the plastic is only "high density" compared to a milk carton. But they do work, and it illustrates that barrel length isn't the deciding factor for weight.

 

For example, 370g and £45 more gets you a 240mm barrel Specna Arms that absolutely wrecks the CYMA for features, with much better hand-feel - you really need to find reasons not to buy something like this, given the spec and price.

 

If it's handiness you're after, I rate MP5s. Jing Gong plastic MP5s come in at or under 2kg, and MP5 mags don't tend to have the same compatibility issues as "AR9" / "AR45" sticks mags.

 

Heck, G36Cs have great ergos, are all plastic, and you can bin off the stock entirely if you want to shave every gram.

 

Or why not just go for a P90, if that's what tickles your fancy.

 

There's really no need to limit yourself to M4s/ARs, unless that platform is what you really want.  Airsoft is a heart-over-head hobby, don't get too caught up in what's sensible.

[Anonymoose]

27 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

If it's handiness you're after, I rate MP5s.

 

100% 👌🏻

 

Light and compact, ergonomic, magazines are half the size of a STANAG, plenty of options for stocks and handguards, rail mounts, etc.

[Twist]

38 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

No worries, we get it. tinkering can be as much fun as playing.  You can chop down or replace the barrel and handguard of any M4, it's a question of how neat you want it to look, or how much you want to spend in order to end up with a gun that you could have bought in the first place.  I'd agree that anything more than 6" is just bragging when it comes to barrels for a ~1.1J AEG

 

But can we establish whether it's length or weight that we're talking about?

 

If it's weight, then a basic dirt cheap CYMA M4 with a 260mm inner comes in at 1.7kg - that's not a recommendation to get one, because the plastic is only "high density" compared to a milk carton. But they do work, and it illustrates that barrel length isn't the deciding factor for weight.

 

For example, 370g and £45 more gets you a 240mm barrel Specna Arms that absolutely wrecks the CYMA for features, with much better hand-feel - you really need to find reasons not to buy something like this, given the spec and price.

 

If it's handiness you're after, I rate MP5s. Jing Gong plastic MP5s come in at or under 2kg, and MP5 mags don't tend to have the same compatibility issues as "AR9" / "AR45" sticks mags.

 

Heck, G36Cs have great ergos, are all plastic, and you can bin off the stock entirely if you want to shave every gram.

 

Or why not just go for a P90, if that's what tickles your fancy.

 

There's really no need to limit yourself to M4s/ARs, unless that platform is what you really want.  Airsoft is a heart-over-head hobby, don't get too caught up in what's sensible.

Definitely length, weight isn't an issue so much (within reason), I've only got dinky wee arms you see, and the M4s I've used were just a little too big for my span, which takes it's toll after a day of play. 

"Or why not just go for a P90, if that's what tickles your fancy." That comes down to budget and the advice of the last few folk I spoke to regarding P90s, they basically said the cheaper ones are pretty rough and that mags don't always work as they should and are more expensive in general, so if I were to get one I should go for the more expensive ones (£400 ish ones). Not 100% on that advice though as I'm new to airsofting so haven't really sussed out brands and such yet.

[Tackle]

1 hour ago, Twist said:

Definitely length, weight isn't an issue so much (within reason), I've only got dinky wee arms you see, and the M4s I've used were just a little too big for my span, which takes it's toll after a day of play. 

"Or why not just go for a P90, if that's what tickles your fancy." That comes down to budget and the advice of the last few folk I spoke to regarding P90s, they basically said the cheaper ones are pretty rough and that mags don't always work as they should and are more expensive in general, so if I were to get one I should go for the more expensive ones (£400 ish ones). Not 100% on that advice though as I'm new to airsofting so haven't really sussed out brands and such yet.

Tbh, if you've tried a p90 & fit is good, you'll not go far wrong with a TM, but forget p90 mags, a laylax p90 box mag is a much better option, high capacity & centre of balance remains good.

 

Or even smaller, a magpul pdr-c, but their not cheap & getting hard to find.

[MrTea]

2 hours ago, Twist said:

"Or why not just go for a P90, if that's what tickles your fancy." That comes down to budget and the advice of the last few folk I spoke to regarding P90s, they basically said the cheaper ones are pretty rough and that mags don't always work as they should and are more expensive in general, so if I were to get one I should go for the more expensive ones (£400 ish ones). Not 100% on that advice though as I'm new to airsofting so haven't really sussed out brands and such yet.

If I remember rightly, the cheaper ones (CYMA/Cybergun/Double Bell/JG) have bodies made of ABS plastic which isn't as strong or nice feeling as the nicer polymer ones such as Tokyo Marui, King Arms, (I think) Novritsch and Krytac. The cheaper ones tend to be new for about £100-£150 depending on brand. King Arms (if you can find them) and TM are in a middle ground of pricing about £200-£250. Novritsch also makes a P90 called the SSR90 which is about £300. Krytacs tend to be on the more expensive end I think.

As for mags i've always stuck with King Arms 100 round ones as I bought a box set of them when I got my P90, never had an issue with them feeding in CYMA, Cybergun or a King Arms P90. CYMA make 70 rounders, JG also make 100 round mags. There are higher capacity "MAG" branded ones that are 150 rounders but they tend to be hard to find and expensive when you do. Finally, Novritsch also has 100 round P90 mags.

As @Tackle mentions, you can get a M4 magazine adapter so you can bypass this issue completely. It costs anywhere from £30-£50 depending on the retailer.

Edited Sunday at 22:32 by MrTea

[Cannonfodder]

As others have posted, forget about upgrades till you've used the gun and know what, if anything, needs improvement. Often the biggest improvement in performance can be gained by using heavier bbs.

 

Stubby M4s can be made by changing everything forward of the red line but tbh with the amount of stubby M4s available it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a shorter M4.

 

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

If it's handiness you're after, I rate MP5s

Seconded, but then I am a complete fanboy for German guns, especially H&K.

 

52 minutes ago, Tackle said:

forget p90 mags, a laylax p90 box mag is a much better option, high capacity & centre of balance remains good.

As I understand it it's the high cap P90 mags that have feeding issues and sticking with mid caps solves these problems.

 

If you want something to tinker with then definitely get a second gun (boneyard or not). You really don't want to find yourself at 1:00am the night before a skirmish with your gun in bits or not working as you want

[Twist]

17 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

As others have posted, forget about upgrades till you've used the gun and know what, if anything, needs improvement. Often the biggest improvement in performance can be gained by using heavier bbs.

 

Stubby M4s can be made by changing everything forward of the red line but tbh with the amount of stubby M4s available it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a shorter M4.

 

Seconded, but then I am a complete fanboy for German guns, especially H&K.

 

As I understand it it's the high cap P90 mags that have feeding issues and sticking with mid caps solves these problems.

 

If you want something to tinker with then definitely get a second gun (boneyard or not). You really don't want to find yourself at 1:00am the night before a skirmish with your gun in bits or not working as you want

My thoughts on an M4 is that I can use it as my first gun for a while (unmodified) and then later when cash allows I can stubby it and acquire some knowledge in the process. I will probably/hopefully have another gun by then should the budget gods be kind and will avoid the scenario you describe... hopefully.

It's not an improvement on performance I'm after, just a more form fitting (to my form) AEG that is comfy for me.
A new M4 can be bought fairly cheap and there's a lot of info out there on modifying them already, also seems like an abundance of parts too.  

With the P90 in mind, I wonder is it possible to maybe 3d print the mag casing and then get the inner gubbins (or figure out which gubbins (springs and whatnot) are used) and DIY it.

[Rogerborg]

30 minutes ago, Twist said:

My thoughts on an M4 is that I can use it as my first gun for a while (unmodified) and then later when cash allows I can stubby it and acquire some knowledge in the process.

 

That's actually pretty sensible. My first gun was a bargain basement plastic-fantastic CYMA CM.516.  As soon as I had something better, I hacksawed off the stock and the barrel at the end of the hand guard, threw on a PEQ box for a battery, and fettled the internals.  It weighs next to nothing and performs as well as anything else out there.

 

One thing I added was a magwell grip. 

 

 

And I mention this because that's all the length you need on an M4.  You don't have to C-clamp them like an operator, you can tuck them in and forget about everything in front of the magwell.

 

Are you having issues with the length of pull - the stock-to-trigger length?  If so, you might want to look at PDW stocks.

 

 

But then that opens the door to MP5s again.  

[Twist]

11 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

That's actually pretty sensible. My first gun was a bargain basement plastic-fantastic CYMA CM.516.  As soon as I had something better, I hacksawed off the stock and the barrel at the end of the hand guard, threw on a PEQ box for a battery, and fettled the internals.  It weighs next to nothing and performs as well as anything else out there.

 

One thing I added was a magwell grip. 

 

 

And I mention this because that's all the length you need on an M4.  You don't have to C-clamp them like an operator, you can tuck them in and forget about everything in front of the magwell.

 

Are you having issues with the length of pull - the stock-to-trigger length?  If so, you might want to look at PDW stocks.

 

 

But then that opens the door to MP5s again.  

"Are you having issues with the length of pull - the stock-to-trigger length?  If so, you might want to look at PDW stocks."
It's not stock to trigger, it's my non trigger hand that stabilises the front, I'm ambidextrous and when holding the M4 in either hand it was just too long to feel balanced/comfortable for a full day of play if that makes sense (I basically have the wingspan of a sparrow lol).

I did consider MP5/other smaller AEGs like the Reaper and Jing Gong but for the price of the M4 and the ability to tinker on it later and learn how AEGs work seemed the more sound investment for my first AEG, more so now I know converting it to a stubby would be viable. (Also gives me an excus... I mean reason to buy another gun down the road... but don't tell the Mrs)

[Colin Allen]

13 hours ago, MrTea said:

If I remember rightly, the cheaper ones (CYMA/Cybergun/Double Bell/JG) have bodies made of ABS plastic which isn't as strong or nice feeling as the nicer polymer ones such as Tokyo Marui, King Arms, (I think) Novritsch and Krytac. The cheaper ones tend to be new for about £100-£150 depending on brand. King Arms (if you can find them) and TM are in a middle ground of pricing about £200-£250. Novritsch also makes a P90 called the SSR90 which is about £300. Krytacs tend to be on the more expensive end I think.

As for mags i've always stuck with King Arms 100 round ones as I bought a box set of them when I got my P90, never had an issue with them feeding in CYMA, Cybergun or a King Arms P90. CYMA make 70 rounders, JG also make 100 round mags. There are higher capacity "MAG" branded ones that are 150 rounders but they tend to be hard to find and expensive when you do. Finally, Novritsch also has 100 round P90 mags.

As @Tackle mentions, you can get a M4 magazine adapter so you can bypass this issue completely. It costs anywhere from £30-£50 depending on the retailer.

The 100 round KA mags also feed flawlessly in the Double Bell P90.

[Skara]

I suggest to stick to the AR platform..

I know they're boring and it'd be just another M4 variant in an ocean of M4 variants, but the fact it's so widespread means that there are many, many parts to pick from and the gun itself can be customized both in performance and looks/ergonomics, something that unfortunately is not always possible with other less common platforms (MP5/P90).

 

Specna C-10 is also a good alternative to the Evolution mentioned above, just make sure you don't buy the PDW stock version, those stocks are unnecessarily heavy and offer very little battery space (you can buy extended tubes but it defies the whole concept of the pdw stock while adding even more weight).

 

You can worry about the internals later, when you have acquired enough experience to understand what you want from your AEG. Please keep in mind that while they provide a decent base to build your dream gun on, out of the box performance will not be great. This is true for pretty much every AEG.