Brushless Gossip #1

[Pseudotectonic]

Brushless Gossip

Issue 1 - September 2024

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Strolling across Aliexpress I've noticed a few new brushless motors popped up recently, and I am happy to say there seems to be a new generation of brushless arms race.

The brands seem to have picked up the chatters and are now starting to advertise their improved CPUs and algorithms and response times measuring in milliseconds.

The prices seem to be drifting down a little as well which is good.

For discussion I will note them down here along with some marketing points they are making. This is purely a review of their marketing and I have not bought any of these.

In no particular order:

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Chaoli CLBL 480

• ~£90 + VAT
• Two models, 26.5k-39k and 39k-48k adjustable RPM with potentiometer on the case
• "3 ms response"
• "32-bit CPU"
• "Emergency stop after power failure, no buffer, stable output"
• Seems to have a capacitor on the control board

Comment:
Probably the oldest of this bunch because I have seen this model before but not the others.
Potentially the fastest response of the bunch by 4 ms.
Still expensive, if they remove the adjustable RPM and make it cheaper this can be a winner.
Good for chasing trigger response.
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T238 QRBLS "Quick Response"

• ~£68 + VAT
• Choice of 25k/28k/37k models, no on-board adjustable RPM
• "Emergency stop after power failure, no buffer, stable output"

Comment:
Some impressive videos on Youtube, does seem to have faster response.
Good budget option.
Unknown CPU and response ms, could possibly be room for improvement.
Could be good enough for all intent and purposes.

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(T238 / Solink?) KPG Gamma Brushless

• ~£58 + shipping £2.33 + VAT
• Choice of 36k/43k models
• "7 ms start time"
• "ARM Cortex M4 @ 100 Mhz"
• "self-developed patented algorithm"

Comment:
Impressive marketing. 7 ms is not the fastest tho.
RPM seems a bit too much, could perhaps make it slower and improve torque or efficiency.
Good budget option if you want the higher RPM.

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(T238 / Solink) "Demon kinG"

• ~£110 + shipping £24 + VAT (barely below threshold for Customs Duty!)
• Choice of 34k/39k/48k/60k models
• "7 ms start time"
• "ARM Cortex M4 @ 100 Mhz"
• "self-developed patented algorithm"

Comment:
Expensive but they market it as flagship so I would expect the highest quality components.
Same factory with the Gamma and the T238?
They seem to suggest the 60k model is absolute bonkers for forbidden builds but this is probably irrelevant to most people.
Good for unlimited budget extreme builds.

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Final thoughts:

I should throw in the Paragon brushless as honourable mention ("3 ms start") because it was probably the first motor that I am aware to market their boot up time, and I think we can call these millisecond-conscious brushless motors a new generation. And this gen is entering an exciting arms race.

The market has definitely moved on from the days of Warheads, and in my opinion unless these last-gens come down in prices, there is little reason to pick them over the newer cheaper models.

With Specna starting to bring in brushless into their stock builds (albeit a previous-gen brushless) we are perhaps seeing the start of brushless becoming mainstream in the near future.

[Asomodai]

Honestly we need way more Short Type motor options. There are very few out there and I only use V3 gearboxes! 

[ak2m4]

52 minutes ago, Asomodai said:

Honestly we need way more Short Type motor options. There are very few out there and I only use V3 gearboxes! 

 

Yeah I would agree but super easy to convert Rob and in doing so you can choose the exact height.

@Pseudotectonic I've just ordered some of the Solink Lite 28k budget ones

[Pseudotectonic]

@ak2m4 Oh? Are they the same? Because I thought the ones on Ali are different/newer ones, they now have a "Stariver" branding and have different RPM options and everything?

 

Is yours from the Solink website? Because I can't find these on Ali

[ak2m4]

Stariver apparently is owned by the same company as T238, sell a lot of Gel Blaster products under that brand in China.  My Solink ones aren't on Aliexpress I don't think - well I've not seen them.

[ruskitseller]

Those chaoli's look like recoloured/rebranded warheads. The thing is - they are not far off a warhead in price. 

[GiantKiwi]

Warheads are the rebrand. Despite all their blustering, they don't make them.

[ruskitseller]

13 hours ago, GiantKiwi said:

Warheads are the rebrand. Despite all their blustering, they don't make them.

Oh that's interesting...so Warhead uses the Chaolis and just rebranded? That will save me money in future then! Thanks 

[Lozart]

22 hours ago, GiantKiwi said:

Warheads are the rebrand. Despite all their blustering, they don't make them.

 

You sure about that? Warheads parent company is literally a motor manufacturer!

[Pseudotectonic]

Yea Google says Warhead is a brand of "KO Technologies" which has their own factories and they do EV and drone motors

[GiantKiwi]

15 hours ago, Lozart said:

 

You sure about that? Warheads parent company is literally a motor manufacturer!

 

Chaoli and KO's manufacturing are in virtually identical locations in China, not exactly rocket science to figure that one out.

Edited September 25 by GiantKiwi

[Fatboy40]

1 hour ago, GiantKiwi said:

Chaoli and KO's manufacturing are in virtually identical locations in China, not exactly rocket science to figure that one out.

 

Don't use this very close location / proximity to assume they're the same business. You may already know this but like minded manufacturers in China often congregate in very small areas, often unique businesses but they all use very local suppliers for parts / sub-assemblies.

[GiantKiwi]

2 hours ago, Fatboy40 said:

 

Don't use this very close location / proximity to assume they're the same business. You may already know this but like minded manufacturers in China often congregate in very small areas, often unique businesses but they all use very local suppliers for parts / sub-assemblies.

 

Yes. They use OEMs to manufacture the items, then the companies get them branded for their own products independently. Neither make anything themselves specifically.

 

Hence, they're in the same manufacturing location, because they're the same product from the same OEM.

 

And this means that warhead *is* a rebrand regardless of any juxtapositioning.

 

Easiest example of this in recent times is Nuprol. They don't make anything themselves either.

Edited September 25 by GiantKiwi

[ak2m4]

@GiantKiwi you said Warhead are a rebrand of Chaoli, yet Warhead were released way ahead of Chaoli's brushless offering. 

Have you opened both up to take a look?

[Colin Allen]

7 hours ago, GiantKiwi said:

 

Yes. They use OEMs to manufacture the items, then the companies get them branded for their own products independently. Neither make anything themselves specifically.

 

Hence, they're in the same manufacturing location, because they're the same product from the same OEM.

 

And this means that warhead *is* a rebrand regardless of any juxtapositioning.

 

Easiest example of this in recent times is Nuprol. They don't make anything themselves either.

That is not correct.

The companies tend to use the same or similar parts or subassemblies from the same or similar manufacturers and assemble them, which is typical of much manufacturing in any country.  They generally do not just rebrand something.

I have done a lot of work with Chinese manufacturing companies.

Nuprol use a different model; they just rebrand fully assembled items provided complete from the OEM.

[JimFromHorsham]

They may be made or assembled in the “same place”  but it doesn’t mean they are the same , different “brands” will often specify different components , opting to build to a certain price point and level of QC .
back up and warranty also play a large part in pricing. One company may just send you a new one  , another may ask for it to returned to inspect & repair .

[Colin Allen]

4 minutes ago, JimFromHorsham said:

They may be made or assembled in the “same place”  but it doesn’t mean they are the same , different “brands” will often specify different components , opting to build to a certain price point and level of QC .
back up and warranty also play a large part in pricing. One company may just send you a new one  , another may ask for it to returned to inspect & repair .

Indeed; the end products are often different.

[ak2m4]

2 hours ago, Colin Allen said:

Indeed; the end products are often different.

 

Would be easy enough to tell.  not only the main controller but also the speed controller (if it has one) which sits underneath the ESC

[Lozart]

This is the parent company of Warhead Industries: https://www.ko-technologies.com/ both they and Warhead are pretty open about how they OEM for lots of other people. It's ENTIRELY possible that a lot of other brushless AEG motors are being made by them but in no way does that mean they are the same.

[GiantKiwi]

OK - drink the koolaid if you like. 

[Lozart]

You know, not everything is a conspiracy to rip off consumers.

[Colin Allen]

6 hours ago, GiantKiwi said:

OK - drink the koolaid if you like. 

Oh dear.

[ruskitseller]

Following on the heels of Warhead is Specna arms. The casings do all look a bit similar to each other. https://specnaarms.com/dark-matter/

 

They have a budget one at £89.99 and a premium one that is £10 more than a Warhead black. Patrol base are marketing the premium model:

 

"DARK MATTER™ motors are Brushless Motors, similar to the legendary Warhead Industries examples and boasting lower heat build-up, higher torque-to-weight ratio, improved reliability via reduced friction and significantly reduced operating noise when compared to conventional brushed motors."