New hop rubber misfeeding and huge fps variations

[JinxDuh]

Hey guys, got my maple leaf 60 degree today from ak2m4 to replace the awful one that came out of the E&L. I paired it with the XT Red omega nub as it was cheaper than the ML one. I installed it with a 6.00mm XT inner barrel.
 

It seems to be firing fine but on the middle of the hop I’m getting 230 fps (Roughly), and 311 (Roughly) with the hop all the way on (Longest part of the ak hop adjuster as far as it’ll go forwards) on .25g BB’s. My father put the same combo in excluding barrel (He’s using the standard barrel) and he’s getting the same FPS readings with the hop fully on, however hop set anywhere middle and under and he’ll misfeed, shoot 4+ bb’s at once, or none at all. 
 

Do these rubbers need “breaking in” or is that a myth?

Edited June 13, 2024 by JinxDuh

[Lozart]

Wait - the FPS is going UP with more hop on?

[JinxDuh]

  On 13/06/2024 at 13:37, Lozart said:

Wait - the FPS is going UP with more hop on?

Expand  

I think I have it backwards haha

Basically:

 

 

[Lozart]

That makes more sense!

[ak2m4]

Rubbers will break-in over time, you generally end up applying a little more hop to compensate.  Not every hop chamber is the same so it takes a little playing around with.  It sounds to me like the nub is perhaps a little too large (tall) for your hop chamber, although impossible for me to tell without it in front of me.

 

You might try trimming a little of material off the top of the nub to reduce some of it's height.  Also as a test try a standard nub if you have one there.

[JinxDuh]

  On 13/06/2024 at 14:02, ak2m4 said:

Rubbers will break-in over time, you generally end up applying a little more hop to compensate.  Not every hop chamber is the same so it takes a little playing around with.  It sounds to me like the nub is perhaps a little too large (tall) for your hop chamber, although impossible for me to tell without it in front of me.

 

You might try trimming a little of material off the top of the nub to reduce some of it's height.  Also as a test try a standard nub if you have one there.

Expand  

That’s a good idea. I’ll try the rubber with a standard nub!

[Adolf Hamster]

  On 13/06/2024 at 13:43, JinxDuh said:

I think I have it backwards haha

Expand  

 

You do, backwards is hop fully on

[Asomodai]

ML rubbers with the ML nub tend to overhop and jam if the hop is turned up too much as there is much more "Mound" than on standard hop setups. The fix is just to only adjust it up to the point it doesn't jam or below. It will probably be massively overhopping at that point anyway. 

[JinxDuh]

So with a standard black nub, 146 fps average with hop in middle, 309 average with hop off, 96 average with hop fully on. So not the nub. I’m assuming the best thing to do is leave it until I get out to a game and test it at proper range? I don’t really have anywhere to test long range at all.

[Sewdhull]

misfeeds are likely to be the lip end of the rubber being too long and partially obstructing the feeding.

[Skara]

  On 13/06/2024 at 13:37, Lozart said:

Wait - the FPS is going UP with more hop on?

Expand  

My small M4 does this, no hop applied = 0.8something Joules, hop correctly set for 0.32 = 0.99J

I guess my particular setup doesn't seal when there is no hop..

 

Back to the OP,

I think you are both having terrible air seal issues, there is no way that you drop so much velocity when applying hop.

Sort the compression first, then try again.

 

Some hop rubbers seem to need a few hundred bbs to "break in", but I have never experienced such a thing with my Maple Leaf ones.

[JinxDuh]

  On 13/06/2024 at 16:38, Skara said:

My small M4 does this, no hop applied = 0.8something Joules, hop correctly set for 0.32 = 0.99J

I guess my particular setup doesn't seal when there is no hop..

 

Back to the OP,

I think you are both having terrible air seal issues, there is no way that you drop so much velocity when applying hop.

Sort the compression first, then try again.

 

Some hop rubbers seem to need a few hundred bbs to "break in", but I have never experienced such a thing with my Maple Leaf ones.

Expand  

The compression is fine, the stock rubber was doing 0.4 variation with 25 rounds put through it to check. Putting the stock rubber in and it’s firing fine as should be, just awful range hence why we opted to get upgraded rubbers

[Skara]

Yeah stock E&L rubbers seem to be made for stupid high energies, certainly not around the 1J mark.

 

Also you did not mention what rubbers you bought. Personally had meh experiences with MR-Hops, okay-ish energy consistency but really bad BB trajectory..

Macarons/super macarons are spot on for me.

[JinxDuh]

  On 13/06/2024 at 17:15, Skara said:

Yeah stock E&L rubbers seem to be made for stupid high energies, certainly not around the 1J mark.

 

Also you did not mention what rubbers you bought. Personally had meh experiences with MR-Hops, okay-ish energy consistency but really bad BB trajectory..

Macarons/super macarons are spot on for me.

Expand  

It was the “Maple Leaf Macaron Hop Rubber Bucking 60”

[Colin Allen]

With that combination, you will not need much hop applied; the adjuster bar should be a lot further forward than your middle position on 0.25g BBs.  The gap at the front of the numbers should be very small.

[JinxDuh]

  On 13/06/2024 at 17:44, Colin Allen said:

With that combination, you will not need much hop applied; the adjuster bar should be a lot further forward than your middle position on 0.25g BBs.  The gap at the front of the numbers should be very small.

Expand  

That would explain it, I reckon. I think I’ll leave it until my next game and dial it in. It can’t be any worse than it was Sunday just gone. Ideal for shooting at birds and planes though 😂

[Adolf Hamster]

  On 13/06/2024 at 17:26, JinxDuh said:

It was the “Maple Leaf Macaron Hop Rubber Bucking 60”

Expand  

 

you using an omega nub with it?

 

the macaron is a great bucking, but does need the nub to be shaped accordingly.

 

if you're getting decent energy and consistency in the range of hop adjustment that you're using in-game, then i wouldn't worry too much.

 

hop fully off you can sometimes get an energy drop, i suspect it's because there needs to be some resistance delaying the bb's start whilst the pressure builds up.

 

likewise hop fully on you can get energy drops, and even a second sweet spot where the bb is sapped of so much energy, but also sufficiently over-spun to fly at that low energy, always better to start hop off and increment when setting to avoid this.

[JinxDuh]

  On 13/06/2024 at 18:00, Adolf Hamster said:

 

you using an omega nub with it?

 

the macaron is a great bucking, but does need the nub to be shaped accordingly.

 

if you're getting decent energy and consistency in the range of hop adjustment that you're using in-game, then i wouldn't worry too much.

 

hop fully off you can sometimes get an energy drop, i suspect it's because there needs to be some resistance delaying the bb's start whilst the pressure builds up.

 

likewise hop fully on you can get energy drops, and even a second sweet spot where the bb is sapped of so much energy, but also sufficiently over-spun to fly at that low energy, always better to start hop off and increment when setting to avoid this.

Expand  

I’m using: https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/xt-omega-nub-soft-70?search=Omega

 

I’ve never ran into issues with maple leaf before with a 50/60 degree macaron and omega nub - That combo is in the majority of my pews, however this is the first time using the XT version

[Adolf Hamster]

  On 13/06/2024 at 18:04, JinxDuh said:

I’m using: https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/xt-omega-nub-soft-70?search=Omega

Expand  

 

yeah that's the right sort of thing.

 

i did try an xt one a while back and found it to be a tad unsquare, so if you find curving to be an issue worth checking, sample size of one though so not concrete.

 

  On 13/06/2024 at 18:04, JinxDuh said:

I’ve never ran into issues with maple leaf before with a 50/60 degree macaron and omega nub - That combo is in the majority of my pews, however this is the first time using the XT version

Expand  

 

in some pews the feed lip length can be problematic, but i wouldn't say a stock e&l is one of them.

[JinxDuh]

  On 13/06/2024 at 18:14, Adolf Hamster said:

 

yeah that's the right sort of thing.

 

i did try an xt one a while back and found it to be a tad unsquare, so if you find curving to be an issue worth checking, sample size of one though so not concrete.

 

 

in some pews the feed lip length can be problematic, but i wouldn't say a stock e&l is one of them.

Expand  

I’ll get an omega nub and try it too, it’s interesting it’s having the same issue with two E&L’s though 😅

[Colin Allen]

  On 13/06/2024 at 18:14, Adolf Hamster said:

in some pews the feed lip length can be problematic, but i wouldn't say a stock e&l is one of them.

Expand  

I have never had a problem with the feed lip length in any of the 14 AK type weapons of various makes that the lad and I own between us; M4s and a few others have been a different story.

I also found a couple of the earlier AK2M4 nubs to be a little off; a bit of trimming did the trick.

[JinxDuh]

  On 13/06/2024 at 18:55, Colin Allen said:

I have never had a problem with the feed lip length in any of the 14 AK type weapons of various makes that the lad and I own between us; M4s and a few others have been a different story.

I also found a couple of the earlier AK2M4 nubs to be a little off; a bit of trimming did the trick.

Expand  

What part did you trim? Never had to do that before 

[Colin Allen]

  On 13/06/2024 at 19:01, JinxDuh said:

What part did you trim? Never had to do that before 

Expand  

I trimmed one of the lower edges to even it up a bit, but that was on a couple of the old style dark red ones.  I have not had any issues with the newer, lighter coloured ones.

 

[ak2m4]

the newer ones all factory mold.  I do check each before sending out but worth double-checking.  trimming the edges might help with you since it will reduce the height a tad, it's such a tiny amount though.  try a maple leaf one though and let us know if that makes any difference

[Adolf Hamster]

  On 13/06/2024 at 18:55, Colin Allen said:

have never had a problem with the feed lip length in any of the 14 AK type weapons of various makes that the lad and I own between us; M4s and a few others have been a different story.

Expand  

 

Yeah i was talking more generally, not just ak's.