Grenades, Pyro, Gas, Stun, Frag, Smoke, Reusable, Consumable...

[The_Roach]

Being back into the game after 15 years, I'm a bit lost with the legal side of things, the etiquette and game rules, and I know very little about the options available.
After doing some research, I found things I had never heard of, like stun pyros using 9mm blanks.

Could someone more knowledgeable than me write a breakdown of the different options with examples of products ? And then people can comment with their experience and rate the different categories. Do gas powered frag (with BBs) actually work ? They were sort of underwhelming in my early airsoft days.
 

[Emergencychimps]

So your choices!!! 

 

1. Disposable pyro. Has come on leaps and bounds over the years but so have the prices. The standard is a mk5 flash bang (like a stick normally), but you can get thermobarics, multi bangs etc. Tag inn pyrotechnics do some lovely looking frags (type 67), they're expensive and louder than some sites will allow. 

 

2. Reusable. 

 

A) gas powered ones, never seen someone talk positively about them and generally reserved for under 18s. Reusable pyro is trick enough as is without adding gas to it. 

 

B) charge based pyro, such as the gr-20. They're generally quite expensive to buy and run, charges are tricky to get hold of at times but realistic looking and often have multi bang features.cool but expensive 

 

C)standard blang firing grenades. These can be on impact or timed. Standard calibres for the blanks are: 209 (known as a shotgun primer) (quietest), 9mm (standard/acceptable) and 12g(too loud for most sites). 12g can take magflashes if you can find them which are as loud as 9mm but have a flash, whether your site accepts them isn't known as some have concerns).

 

Impact bfgs, generally only go off on concrete and are easily lost in grass etc. Timed can be slid along floors etc. Both have their time as place. I think the ohshibooms or the original police dynatec impacts are the best. Have seen some of the alpha tec multishot ones fail to go off fairly regularly. 

 

There are regular reports of reusable bfgs being pinched but I've never experienced this/been lucky and it's easily saved me over £1000 had I bought disposable pyro for every blank used and I still have the bfgs. Think about where you play and factor that in. 

[MrTea]

I'll do my best to describe what i've used but i'm sure i'll forget something.

 

Flash Bang Smoke - Disposable;

• Ball Grenade (loaded with dried peas/BBs) - These can be striker tops like the Mk5 Thunderflash or ring pull. These actually roll really well for indoors and you can bowl them across flat surfaces pretty easily to catch people off guard.
• Cylinders (loaded with dried peas/BBs) - These act like the ball grenades but are cylinders. Not ring pull, only striker top.
• Non-Thermobaric Multi-bangs. Great fun. Cylindrical. These are bangs only, not loaded with projectiles.
• Thermobaric single and multi-bang. These are a bang and bright flash. No projectiles. Also fantastic fun.
• FBS offer striker top, ring pull and fly off lever options on some of their devices but considering they're dispoable, it's not worth the extra cost for FOL options.

Enola Gaye - Disposable;

• Mk5 Thunderflash - These are the thin cylinders with striker tops. The single cheapest and most common type of pyro in airsoft. 99% of retailers wont sell you (and most sites wont let you use) Mk7 or Mk9 Thunderflash due to the increased sound level.
• EG67 - These works exactly like the FBS Ball Grenades above.
• Flash 3.0 - Loud bang, sparks, flash. Come as a cylinder with wire pull igniter.

Both FBS and Enola Gaye offer smoke grenades but, IMO, Enola Gaye has the better offerings however they get quite expensive.

 

Reusable Pyro;

• Blank Firing Grenades - There's loads of different offerings on this from impact grenades to timed and in different calibers too. .209 primers are the cheapest, 9mm (.380) next up and then 12 Gauge blanks being the most expensive. A lot of BFGs only tailor to .209 for airsoft but there are a few still floating around that let you use 9mm and 12 gauge but you've got to be careful with 12G as they can (depending on what you buy) be too loud for indoor use. I'm personally getting back into using my BFGs now i've found a supplier for Magflash which are just as loud as regular pyro but way more fun.
• Charge/Legit training grenades - Things like the Virtus AG-40 Training grenade are A. Expensive B. Hard to find and C. The charges are incredibly difficult to get a hold of. While they're cool, they're probably not worth it.
• Gas Grenades - I've never dabbled with them as i've always seen reviews saying seals go bad after a year and it's usually tricky to get hold of spares to fix them and that's without looking at their mediocre performance. Most sites operate a rule where if a grenade detonates inside a certain radius, you die, regardless if you get hit by a BB from the pyro or not. I think the only exception to this rule would be Thunder Bs but they use CO2 catridges and disposable plastic shells which aren't cheap either. They're supposed to be stupid loud too.

As a note; I'd avoid using reusable pyro outdoors as they're easily lost and due to their weight, can only be thrown under arm below waist height to avoid serious injury to other players. I'd also mention Taginn grenades. As Emergencychimps says, their disposable pyro is expensive per unit and louder than most sites will allow. Taginn (I think) are the only manufacturer who actually have pyro that can be launched from a underbarrel grenade launcher which is cool but crazy expensive when you start looking into it.

Edited October 2, 2023 by MrTea

[Cannonfodder]

There's a few options available for those of us who like a good bang at the weekend (fnarr)

 

First up is the thunder flash. Probably the most common airsoft pyro, the most basic ones you simply remove the top and strike the fuse like a match before throwing. There are some which ignite via a ring pull but IMO this is just a gimmick and add unnecessary cost. Call me tight but I'm not spending a tenner a go for disposable pyro. As these are essentially fireworks sites shouldn't be supplying them to under 18s

 

Second is the pea grenade. These are similar to the thunder flash but come in a more grenade like shape and are filled with dried peas to give a frag effect

 

Next we have the blank firing grenade (BFG). These, as the name suggests, use a blank to make the noise and use either .209 shotgun primers or 9mm blanks. Some can also use 12 bore blanks but not many sites allow their use. They come in 2 versions, timed or impact detonated and both types have their advantages and disadvantages, eg the timed ones are more likely to go off but the delay may give players time to get behind cover whereas the impact ones don't but might not go off on soft ground. Legally the grenades can be bought by anyone but the blanks are over 18 only

 

Gas powered grenades are available and are usually impact detonated do can suffer the same problems as impact BFGs on soft ground. Soft ground will also restrict how far the bbs fly if it does go off. Imo they're a bit crap and not worth it. Afaik there's no age restrictions on buying these

 

Last we have TAGG grenades. These are fired from a launcher such as the M203, but unlike traditional moscart shells they launch a pyro which will go off either on impact or are timed. It's worth noting with these that they're relatively expensive and some sites don't allow them so it's worth checking before splurging out on them.

 

I'm sure there's more and someone else will be along to fill in the blanks but I hope this helps 

[The_Roach]

Thank you for these helpful answers. My take away from your input is that frags are not worth the hassle. Stun/Flashbang, with .209 BFGs being the best solution are probably my go to solution. 

What about smoke then ? Do you have any recommendations? 

[EDcase]

The 209 BFG (Dynatex Timed Delay BFG) are good and the cheapest option to use (about 8p per bang) but I only use mine for close clearing like dropping through a window or rolling into a room so I can find and retrieve it quickly.  As mentioned before, these cannot be thrown far and can be lost/stolen. (I have painted mine with bright colours to be easily found/identified)

I don't trust the impact grenades as I've seen them fail to detonate quite a few times in woodland games.

 

Enola Geyes (Airsoft Grenades and Smoke Bombs | Enola Gaye) MK-5 are the most common pyro for full throwing and most sites sell them.

Their smokes are also good and commonly sold on site.

 

Of course you'll find them online for better prices.  You just have to prove you're over 18 to purchase.

Same goes for the 209 blanks (shotgun primers)

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by EDcase

[Tommikka]

Most importantly let me declare my interests, that I am part of a sponsorship relationship with Enola Gaye (They provide the pyrotechnics for our events)

 

I’ll categorise as smokes, bangs and ‘projectile bangs’

 

Smokes:

Cover and effects 

In event running my interest is as an atmospheric effect and as an objective marker etc

In game play it’s cover and/or a distraction 

The worst use is to take one standard smoke in a wide open area, throw it, look at it and then find that the cloud has dispersed with no body moving 

The beat use is to check the environment (is it windy?) and to either throw and go as soon as any smoke is produced or to throw multiple smokes dropped close by but with some spacing - then use the cover 

This brings the decision of whether to use larger smoke grenades for one cloud or multiple smaller smoke grenades to build a cloud

Enola provide a guide to compare the capabilities across the range  

The general standard smoke across most manufacturers is Enolas WP40/TP40/friction and was traditionally set off by friction striker.* 

Each part of the range also has a designed burn time.  In the above image the different models with the cloud in red have burn times mostly of 60 to 90 seconds but also includes the twin vent which emits smoke from both the bottom and top halving it’s contents burn time from 60 seconds to less than 30

 

The EG18 on release became popular for the bigger cloud over 90 seconds of burn and it also can ‘fit better’ in a manly hand giving a good weighty throw

Some prefer the EG18, some prefer two standard smokes 

The EG25 is less of a cloud maker, but does get good results in small areas - this was more aimed for photography and effects 

 

 

Bangs:

When I began playing these typically were only for noise, but gradually were taken into account in rules such as ‘within x metres’ is an elimination and of more relevance ‘within the room’ is an elimination 

 

Back then it was ‘normal’ to use Mk9s which meant that even if it didn’t count for any eliminations etc it caused players to react when a mk9 went off beside them 

Now the site standard tends to be Mk5s

When on a ‘standard’ designed flash bang the mk 5/9 would be a guide to how much explosive is in there and how much of bang ‘volume’ you can expect experience, but the real science is in the combination of the chemistry of the bang and the shape/density of the grenade, such as how packed the cardboard tube is.  This can change the volume and ‘feel’ of the bang - and have a significant difference in a confined space

 

I was handed some of the compact bang to try out, and I stumbled when stepping away from the first one I ignited.

In a semi confined area of an outdoor CQB space I felt a kick in my backside the of detonation ‘blast’

There is video footage, but I possess it and it’s not getting published 

For reusable bangs etc I have little experience other than those that I have watched in use.  They cost more per grenade, but less per bang - provided you don’t lose it

 

Projectile bangs:

I have little to no experience of these, having used some of the early airsoft grenades and paintball grenades that ‘propelled’ either dried peas or paintballs when detonated.  This was ten to fifteen years ago and I found them ineffective - let alone whether anyone took any notice of them 

In some cases the rules would count them as hits, but only if anyone took the hit

Designs have improved over years but I’ve had no use for them nor have I been involved in their product testing. 

 

 

* Strikers/ring pull ignition:

Enola have aimed towards using wire pulls due to the issue of players being heavy handed with strikers  - the striker system has a chemical reaction between fuse and striker and only needs a gentle touch, over do it and you just sandpaper the top of the fuse away

Pay attention to the instructions for ring pulls as to avoid players burning themselves on ignition EG designed ring pulls to be pulled sideways so that your hand is out of the way of ignition, and if you pull up it will deliberately fail.  
Due to the inability to read instructions (especially on the US market) a top pull system was also introduced - check which ignition system you have, and if you are heavy handed with ignition fuses carry a lighter (and only use it on the tip of the fuse)

 

Further details on each in the Enola range linked here:

https://enolagaye.com/general/

https://enolagaye.com/combat/

 

Other pyro manufacturers are available 

[MrTea]

4 hours ago, The_Roach said:

Thank you for these helpful answers. My take away from your input is that frags are not worth the hassle.

Not necessarily. Frags, as in single use pyro loaded with dried peas/BBs, are worth it as they're usually the only type of ball grenades available IIRC and as I said earlier, you can roll these really easily and catch people off guard rather than having pyro sail through the air.

 

4 hours ago, The_Roach said:

What about smoke then ? Do you have any recommendations? 

Enola Gaye have the best smokes IMO. Referring to @Tommikka chart, the EG18 is where it starts to get real expensive at £10-£15 per smoke. The Mil-X and CM75 are stupid expensive but it's unlikely you'd be able to get your hands on them anyway. Most people use the TP40 size as they have the best price/performance balance.

[Lozart]

7 minutes ago, MrTea said:

Enola Gaye have the best smokes IMO. Referring to @Tommikka chart, the EG18 is where it starts to get real expensive at £10-£15 per smoke. The Mil-X and CM75 are stupid expensive but it's unlikely you'd be able to get your hands on them anyway. Most people use the TP40 size as they have the best price/performance balance.

 

Yeah...but have you ever used an EG18-X? They're hilariously fantastic!

[MrTea]

6 minutes ago, Lozart said:

Yeah...but have you ever used an EG18-X? They're hilariously fantastic!

 

Not yet! I think i'm going to be stocking up on pyro again next month as my box of pyro & smokes is starting to get low again. As I understand it, the X version just dumps all of the smoke in half the time?

Edited October 3, 2023 by MrTea

[Lozart]

Just now, MrTea said:

 

Not yet! I think i'm going to be stocking up on pyro again next month as my box of pyro & smokes is starting to get low again. As I understand it, the X version just dumps all of the smoke in half the time?

 

Pretty much, we let one off at Red Alert halfway through a game and the cloud was still lingering at the end. Fantastic kit. Big and heavy to lug about though.

[Rogerborg]

20 hours ago, The_Roach said:

Do gas powered frag (with BBs) actually work ? They were sort of underwhelming in my early airsoft days.

 

They still are now.  I've seen these things go off at people's feet and they simply don't notice them. They might have gone off at mine, for all I know.

 

Gas grenades that go "pop" (by bursting a thin plastic disc) are a bit louder, but still underwhelming compared to even a .209 blank.

[MrTea]

1 minute ago, Lozart said:

Pretty much, we let one off at Red Alert halfway through a game and the cloud was still lingering at the end. Fantastic kit. Big and heavy to lug about though.

I'm pretty sure EG used sell a bandolier so you can carry 6 at once. I was planning on grabbing a few of the EG18s to try out, might just got for the X versions.

[Cannonfodder]

5 hours ago, The_Roach said:

Thank you for these helpful answers. My take away from your input is that frags are not worth the hassle. Stun/Flashbang, with .209 BFGs being the best solution are probably my go to solution. 

What about smoke then ? Do you have any recommendations? 

I wouldn't say they're not worth it. For woodland games I try to carry a couple alongside my timed BFGs. For safety reasons sites will insist BFGs are thrown underarm below knee height (250g of metal flying through the air can do some damage if it hits someone, ask me how I know). The disposable pyro can be useful if you need to yeet it a bit further.

 

As for smoke grenades, I just tend to buy whatever is available on site

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, MrTea said:

 

Not yet! I think i'm going to be stocking up on pyro again next month as my box of pyro & smokes is starting to get low again. As I understand it, the X version just dumps all of the smoke in half the time?

A 45 second burn time for the Eg18X compared to the EG18s 90 second burn

 

https://enolagaye.com/products/eg18x/

 

https://enolagaye.com/products/eg18/

 

1 hour ago, MrTea said:

I'm pretty sure EG used sell a bandolier so you can carry 6 at once. I was planning on grabbing a few of the EG18s to try out, might just got for the X versions.

The X isn’t (supposed to be) on general sale, it’s recommended for ‘professional use’

1 hour ago, MrTea said:

I'm pretty sure EG used sell a bandolier so you can carry 6 at once. I was planning on grabbing a few of the EG18s to try out, might just got for the X versions.

Bandoliers are for the amateurs 

 

 

They wouldn’t let me pack that one into my car

 

An alternative to the proper bandolier is from the various ‘beer can belts’

 

However, the official EG bandolier came with a hook so that you can pull the pin one handed

 

You can sometimes find the older products around once in a while

[Dan Robinson]

Oh I'm getting some of those bad boys for the weekend.

[gavinkempsell]

I don't have any airsoft grenades but wouldn't an issed ugl bandolier do?

Edited October 3, 2023 by gavinkempsell

[Tommikka]

27 minutes ago, gavinkempsell said:

I don't have any airsoft grenades but wouldn't an issed ugl bandolier do?

The EG18 & EG18X are 55mm in diameter so probably too fat unless there’s some give, the others tend to be 40mm

 

Mk5s slot nicely in MOLLE strapping 

[Lozart]

15 hours ago, Tommikka said:

The X isn’t (supposed to be) on general sale, it’s recommended for ‘professional use’

 

https://bulkpyrosupplies.co.uk/product/eg18x-smoke-grenade/

 

I got mine from a buddy that works in the industry though.

[TheFull9]

Does anywhere actually have decent stock of Mk5s/useful smokes?

[MrTea]

https://www.308-sniper.co.uk/mk5-thunderflash-104758393.html - 47 in stock.

 

https://www.justpaintball.co.uk/collections/mk5-thunderflash-flashbangs - a few different bundle sizes. Not sure about availability but they're not showing out of stock.

 

I'd just Google them and ring/email and ask about stock and the cost of shipping.