Collection seized by court order - In the news

[Algy]

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/east-lothian-dad-caught-trying-27148827

 

Some hapless fellow in Scotland imported an "air rifle" which got nabbed by customs, police then made a couple of visits to the addressee and discovered and seized his toys. He believed he was allowed to import as was a member of the "UK Air Soft Association" and other gun clubs. He ended up in court and lost his seemingly considerable collection despite most of them being "legally held". I know air rifles etc. in Scotland are licensable (if that is what he actually imported), but it seems a bit arbitrary for what are essentially toys to be confiscated by the court, especially where it was conceded that they were in fact, for the most part, held legally.

 

**Edited link

Edited June 19, 2023 by Algy

[Guest]

Linky no worky 

[Pseudotectonic]

It may have been the lawyer told him to give them up so they can say “very much learned his lesson and now wants to move away from all that” and remove as much risk to public as possible so he doesn't get jailed by the sheriff

[Tommikka]

The overall article is hard to establish the relevant facts …….

 

But there appear to be two distinct ‘incidents’ :

 

1) of importing a RiF (assuming ‘air gun’ means airsoft gun) without a valid defence, an overpowered RIF/IF, or actually an air rifle (subject to a certificate in Scotland)

 

assuming that “UK air soft association” is meant to be UKARA which would back up his belief that it was a legal import, but other statements show that his intention was collection rather than playing

 

assuming that “member of various gun clubs” didn’t equate to turning up at an airsoft site to skirmishes

 

This incident resulted in a visit and confiscation of the import

Either importing a RIF and they were not happy with the defence, an overpowered RIF bit subject to the firearms act exemption or an air gun subject to a certificate in Scotland

Davidson pleaded guilty to attempting to import an air rifle into the UK on June 6, 2020.

 

2) A second incident folllowing the reporting of possession of a firearm (PPK)

This appeared to have been claimed to be a ‘model pistol’, and has turned out to be an imitation 

(RIF or replica? Either are legal, but certification is referenced. Was it an air pistol ?

He also admitted to possessing a handgun without holding the appropriate certification on February 18, 2021.

 

 

His solicitors defence in court removes any RIF defence as collecting isn’t a valid purpose, but the primary intent of that legal defence being to show that his client wasn’t an intentional baddie and had assumed everything was legitimate:

 

 

Mr Smith said Davidson had used inheritance money to “accumulate the collection” and that he was “a collector and not a user”.

 

………..

 

It could be overkill,  but the first import just resulted in it being refused entry and confiscated - which if it was a RIF is the ‘correct’ result for an imported RIF outside of the VCRA purposes / defences.

The second incident following the report of a firearm could be of course a malicious report, but could also be as a result of irresponsible ownership 

 

Based on some other threads in recent months involving possession and the police the underlying question would be why they got involved

(the import is an obvious reason, and one poster on here has had the police turn up as a result of importing but had a different outcome even though the individuals wider collection was revealed - valid use etc)

[Rogerborg]

Mmm, it's hard to tell what actually happened there, legally speaking.  Could be UKARA, UKAPU or UKASA.  Either way, blagging our defence rather than scamming (e.g.) the Military Vehicle Trust means that hanging's too good for him.

 

Not that I actually think he did anything wrong morally, but pragmatically, he's brought some unwelcome attention to our hobby.

 

 

[AirSniper]

A case of "Belief" over "fact" ...

 

People believe that they can do things when in fact they can't.

 

Importing an airgun without a licence to do so is an offence in itself, the weapon may be an FAC weapon, air rifles from America are commonly 100 fpe output which is a definite firearms offence and unless HMRC tested it, they wouldn't know.

IMHO the HMRC were seeking to gather VAT and Import tax and then found the guy had no RFD licence... hence the knock knock...

[Emergencychimps]

I wonder if this was the guy that was on here recently asking for advice on a very similar sounding situation? 

 

 

 

 

[JimFromHorsham]

Just now, Emergencychimps said:

I wonder if this was the guy that was on here recently asking for advice on a very similar sounding situation? 

 

 

 

 

 

both named Euan , bit of a coincidence if it isn’t !

[Emergencychimps]

9 minutes ago, JimFromHorsham said:

 

both named Euan , bit of a coincidence if it isn’t !

 

Both reference a ppq as well, both in Scotland and both called euan....this must be the same thing. 

 

He said they came round and he told them he showed them his collection, they say they raided him with a warrant. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Emergencychimps

[TacticalWaifu]

15 minutes ago, Emergencychimps said:

 

 

 

 

Time to get out the popcorn, methinks 🍿

Monumentally stupid though, and it risks putting more watchful eyes on the hobby / bringing legitimate airsofters into disrepute... 😤

[Rogerborg]

32 minutes ago, Emergencychimps said:

He said they came round and he told them he showed them his collection, they say they raided him with a warrant. 

 

Seems like first one, then t'other.  The first visit was when an air-gun was caught during importation, and he invited them in and tried the "Honest mistake, seller said it'd be fine" exculpation.

 

Then later, after a report by a vengeful wife concerned citizen, they came back with a warrant for more of the spicy-boi air-pistol firearms that for some galaxy brained reason he still hadn't got shot of despite having been charged for the one they already knew about.

 

I'll double-down on my comment that the air-guns that got him in a pickle have nothing to do with airsoft, and the bloke's a prize prick for trying to claim otherwise.  While I don't agree with Scotch air-gun law, a loicence is "shall-issue" and he could have applied for one at any time.

[novioman]

A border force manager told me they decide what is and what isn’t a RIF.  Apparently, according to them any airgun can be a RIF if that’s their decision. I know that any airgun is legally classed as a firearm under the 1968 firearms act, if it’s classed as a firearm it couldn’t legally be described as a RIF because it is an actual unlicensed firearm.

Border Force make up the rules as they want. I had this out with them and in the end had to get my MP involved and I insisted on a written apology from the police as they called to speak to me 3 times.  I got the apology in writing after complaining to the chief constable of Sussex. 

[Rogerborg]

 

2 hours ago, novioman said:

A border force manager told me they decide what is and what isn’t a RIF.  Apparently, according to them any airgun can be a RIF if that’s their decision. I know that any airgun is legally classed as a firearm under the 1968 firearms act, if it’s classed as a firearm it couldn’t legally be described as a RIF because it is an actual unlicensed firearm.

Border Force make up the rules as they want. I had this out with them and in the end had to get my MP involved and I insisted on a written apology from the police as they called to speak to me 3 times.  I got the apology in writing after complaining to the chief constable of Sussex. 

 

An interesting tale.  Apologies if I missed it, but have you done a detailed thread on it?  I'd be very interested in hearing the details.  Our friendly neighbourhood UKAPU reps might be too.

[Tommikka]

4 hours ago, Emergencychimps said:

 

Both reference a ppq as well, both in Scotland and both called euan....this must be the same thing. 

 

He said they came round and he told them he showed them his collection, they say they raided him with a warrant. 

Euan89

Euan Davidson 33 years old 

 

He hasn’t had this years birthday yet?

On the very likely situation that this is the same case, the UKPSFs player AGM recently went into more details on why they have brought in their change of stance on paintball and the VCRA (highlighted in last years player AGM 

 

The import of home defence types of paintball guns, exceeding UK power limits and non paintball projectiles is coming to the attention of the UKPSF with all the relevant authorities clarifying specifics 

There are UK legal ones and non legal ones 

 

It would appear that Euans lawyer has given good advice and secured a lesser problem for Euan

[Rogerborg]

12 hours ago, Tommikka said:

It would appear that Euans lawyer has given good advice and secured a lesser problem for Euan

 

Yup, sounds like he was banged to rights, and this was (in Scotchland especially) probably the least bad outcome.  As per the previous thread, these T4Es are sold as "made for real-life training, drills, practice, and even less-than-lethal self-defense" (sic). They call them "markers", and they can (ostensibly) shoot paintballs as well as rubber (or conceivably harder) balls, but that's not how they're marketing them.  It seems that Euan got snitched over these guns specifically, so I'd wonder if he flexed about their ned-stopping power to the wrong person.

 

This looks to be more of a problem for paintball than airsoft now.

[Tommikka]

7 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

 

 

This looks to be more of a problem for paintball than airsoft now.

Definatley …… and is a headache for the UKPSF

 

I have a couple of Umarex pistols myself, which are variants of the home defence types but they are UK legal and are used with paintballs not dodgy projectiles

(purchased from reputable UK paintball retailers as opposed to grey imports)

 

These things are bringing the attention of VCRA/RIFs to paintball again, and we’re relying on a good Home Office / police relationship with the UKPSF

 

Read the letter of the law and I do have pre 2007 paintball RIFs of which possession is fine, plus post 2007 RIFs which could technically be a problem to retailers who sold them to me (and private sellers)

These are known issues which the UKPSF highlights & looks to protect the game

Edited June 21, 2023 by Tommikka

[Rogerborg]

Sounds like we need to get the UKPSF committee playing airsoft.