Border Force Impounded RIF...

[Farstarbuck]

even though it has an orange tip and my UKARA displayed on the outside packaging in multiple places.

 

Took over 2 months for them to release the RIF. I had to send my defence which was just the same player number they had for them to release.

I feel this was poorly handled by them and there was no need to hold the package. 

So be warned if you are buying from Asia in particular. 

[ak2m4]

Sucks it got caught but it happens.  Who was the courier?

 

From my own experience having the UKARA number displayed does f**k all since they seem to be doing random selection checks where the item is sent away to their testing/holding depot.  I had a whole box of chrono's take 4 month stuck in customs where they said there were no instructions for these electrical items since they were being resold.  When they finally arrived after 20 or so emails back and forth sure enough the instructions were in the box.

[Farstarbuck]

Parcelforce. Not sure what's the point in having UKARA then if they are going to ignore the player number and not look up the details until I send them the same number for them then to check. Waste of time. 

[Rogerborg]

I'm sorry to hear it, but not surprised.  We know that Border Force got a bunch of recruitment and training prior to the changes at the start of 2022, and the imposition of duty on all EU and global imports, regardless of declared value.

 

I FOI'd Border Force a few years back to ask how many UKARA checks they made, and they claimed not to hold that information as each agent keeps their own records.  Could be thousands, could be none at all.

 

And the thing is, UKARA is a scheme paid for by UK retailers, and I've never understood why it's used to assist imports.

 

I'm in two minds about whether having a UKARA number on the packaging is actually a net negative now - it might just make it easier for Border Force to spot the firearm-shaped-toys.

[ak2m4]

8 hours ago, Farstarbuck said:

Parcelforce. Not sure what's the point in having UKARA then if they are going to ignore the player number and not look up the details until I send them the same number for them then to check. Waste of time. 

 

As @Rogerborg states, UKARA is owned and run by UK retailers.  I can't see any reason why the scheme would aid anyone importing into the UK

[Guest]

8 hours ago, ak2m4 said:

 

As @Rogerborg states, UKARA is owned and run by UK retailers.  I can't see any reason why the scheme would aid anyone importing into the UK

Doesn’t the VCRA require a similar defence to import a RIF as it does to sell one?

[Rogerborg]

58 minutes ago, rocketdogbert said:

Doesn’t the VCRA require a similar defence to import a RIF as it does to sell one?

 

Yes. Same offence, same defence.  One subtlety is that a defence (against prosecution) isn't the same as a license (to actually permit it).

 

Border Force have historically treated a defence as a licence (that's the language from one of their own internal documents that came to light a few years back), but at any point, they could change their minds say "OK, we're not sending the rozzers round, but neither are we going to allow imports. At all."

 

Enjoy whatever we can, while we can, is how I see it.

[Tommikka]

A couple of things:

 

The orange tip mentioned by the OP is irrelevant, that comes under US requirements for toys.

In the UK it’s either a RIF or it’s an IF.  An orange tip is less than 50% so it’s a RIF it’s a superfluous orange tip 

 

The VCrA covers sale (both retail and private, manufacture, modify (which includes painting, changing parts etc) and import

 

The acts ‘defences’ indirectly includes ‘Airsoft skirmishing’ …… (by statutory instrument which supplements the actual legislation)

 

UKARA is the main scheme recognised to justify the ‘skirmisher defence’

 

When it’s a sale the decision is made by the seller, and they make the assumption that their records will be good enough if a case comes back to a sale that they made 

 

When it’s an import it’s down to customs and/or the importing carrier.

Any package could be handled purely by an approved carrier, they may either refer to customs, or customs may pick out packages (or full container loads) themselves 

 

 

Importing has many risks, it could sail through, it could get caught up in red tape, it could be flagged and challenged, it could be refused (and returned, seized, destroyed etc)

You can challenge

 

In the end for this case there was ‘just’ a delay

[Cannonfodder]

Not sure what the OPs point is here. As already mentioned, ukara and orange tips have bugger all to do with importing. Yes it was delayed for a couple of months but that's hardly anything out of the ordinary as the parcel would've been in a pile of things waiting to be checked and sent on or thrown in the crusher

[Rogerborg]

4 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

Not sure what the OPs point is here.

 

That they demanded the same information that they already had: his name, address, and UKARA number.

 

It feels a bit like "dance, monkey, dance."

[Cannonfodder]

I'm guessing its a case of the BF following procedure and sending out the letter, rather than looking for a ukara number on the package or paperwork. I also doubt that many of the staff don't know what a ukara number or airsoft is

[clumpyedge]

10 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

I'm guessing its a case of the BF following procedure and sending out the letter, rather than looking for a ukara number on the package or paperwork. I also doubt that many of the staff don't know what a ukara number or airsoft is

 

Exactly this.

 

I've worked in global logistics almost my entire career from one degree to another. Believe or not sometimes there is absolutely no rhyme or reason why something gets held other times it depends who is working that day to how much effort they want to apply to that specific shipment. Seems like as you say whoever it was decided to cover their arse (I'd probably be doing the same) and requesting the information regardless of if its already on the shipment, for all the person on the desk knows the sender just slapped whatever they wanted on it hoping to just pass through having seen it had the "relevant" information on it.

[Rogerborg]

But that doesn't alter the fact that they were just sent the exact same information that they already had, possibly plus the word "airsoft".

 

So I'm left wondering: if they didn't check the UKARA the first time they had it, did they check it the second?

 

In other words, maybe just saying "Yeah, airsoft and that" is sufficient to get it through, with or without a (real or imaginary) UKARA or site membership number.

 

Pure speculation, but I'm coming down on the side of not having a UKARA number or other defence put on the packaging now.

[clumpyedge]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

But that doesn't alter the fact that they were just sent the exact same information

 

Welcome to my world. Believe me getting anything into the UK is much easier than the vast majority of other countries I ship to. Some boarder forces I've provided the same information time and time again but it has become apparent that if the same guy isn't "on the desk" the following day then you normally have to start at square one.

[Tommikka]

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

 

In other words, maybe just saying "Yeah, airsoft and that" is sufficient to get it through, with or without a (real or imaginary) UKARA or site membership number.

 

Pure speculation, but I'm coming down on the side of not having a UKARA number or other defence put on the packaging now.

…. Or in my case back in 2007/2008 responding to a RIF declaration that summed up as ‘it’s not airsoft’ ….. and then when receiving my package discovering the airsoft specifics that I had added onto the order 

[DestrO]

Sucks that it got held, I just had a RIF imported from Hong Kong via UPS with no issues (bar UPS being incompetent as usual). It definitely helped that the retailer (WGC) did all the paperwork correctly and put my UKARA both on the box and in the address field.

Although I'd rather deal with a couple days delay due to UPS being morons than it being held for sure.

Edited September 30, 2022 by DestrO

[JimFromHorsham]

I had an Airgun seized as a RIF … after 2months of back and forth they finally opened the box to see what it was , 2 months and they’d never even opened it 🤦🏼‍♂️

 

true story ,

legal import docs on the outside said blah blah blah blah gun…. Wait Gun ! !!  - seize it ! 

 

 

[AirSniper]

UK Border force are when it comes to checking goods, are ignorant of most things.

I bought a satellite kit that accesses internet from locations off grid, despite it stating $80 which at the time was about £51, they charged me tax on £80 not £51 and despite telling them of their mistake, they didn't care, more revenue for them.

You are lucky that you were not charged import duty and VAT.

Similar happened to my dad 40 years ago when we came back from the USA. He brought in a store a boombox, back when boomboxes in the UK were £600 new, in the US they were something like $200 as the pound was strong, we were talking about £100 and the customs unit called my dad a liar as they were expecting a huge payday on the duty and VAT that they had tried to get him to pay, he showed them the receipt and they guy still said "I don't believe you", even with evidence.

 

They are make it up as they go, if they think that they are on to a winner, they will stiff you for as much as they can.

So it doesn't matter what the item is that is coming in, if they think that they can have your pants down, they will.