Recommend on a Sight/Optic....

[DRay]

Soooo I drunkenly added to my armoury last night with a G&G Raider Long as a spare/loaner. 
 

It hasn’t got iron/flip up sights with it. So I need to acquire one. That said, I have iron sights on my SA E07, so buying a second set seems a bit redundant. Have only ever used iron sights or a SUSAT so I am not au fait with the popular airsoft options;

 

Something inexpensive. 

Isn’t going to need zeroing all the bastard time. 
Will fit to a 20mm RIS. 

Im not trying to achieve a DMR, in all honesty I will probably put the flip ups onto the G&G. But if I am going to spend £30 on a sight it is worth considering buying an optic or something. 
 

(I must confess that I spend most of my time watching the fall of shot anyway and don’t look down the sights 100% of the time anway, especially because I play mostly at CQB sites) 

[alxndrhll]

I don't have any recommendations per se in terms of the 'form' that is generally person preference, I generally veer towatd T1/T2 replicas because I like the look... not much more thought has gone into it than that. With the general theme being inexpensive I'd probably advise giving a hint toward your preferred look and then folks with experiences of various replica of that type can share their thoughts.

 

One thing I would consider which caught me off guard, are you aware of whether you have an astigmatism at all? I was gutted when I picked up a fancy reflex sight only to discover what should have been a lovely crisp dot looked more like a firework going off. I've found using similar optics with both eyes open (which was something entirely new to me) lessens how bad it is and makes it entirely workable. Just food for thought, I'd gone through 30 years on this Earth having no idea I had anything going on with my eyes... because there is seemingly very little an astigmatism actually effects in day to day life.

[DRay]

3 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

I don't have any recommendations per se in terms of the 'form' that is generally person preference, I generally veer towatd T1/T2 replicas because I like the look... not much more thought has gone into it than that. With the general theme being inexpensive I'd probably advise giving a hint toward your preferred look and then folks with experiences of various replica of that type can share their thoughts.

 

One thing I would consider which caught me off guard, are you aware of whether you have an astigmatism at all? I was gutted when I picked up a fancy reflex sight only to discover what should have been a lovely crisp dot looked more like a firework going off. I've found using similar optics with both eyes open (which was something entirely new to me) lessens how bad it is and makes it entirely workable. Just food for thought, I've gone through 30 years on this Earth having no idea I had anything going on with my eyes... because there is seemingly very little an astigmatism actually effects in day to day life.

Haha that’s not a bad shout to be fair mate but no, my eyesight is 20/20 and we do annual eye and colour perception tests. 
 

I watch the fall of shot because I am fucking lazy...

 

In terms of look, probably more minimalist than having some whacking great telescope on the top of my rifle to be honest with you. Something in-keeping with a carbine. 
 

I am undecided between a red dot, a small magnified optic or just sticking with another set of iron sights. 

[Adolf Hamster]

honestly a lot of it just falls down to personal preference.

 

for example i'd suggest the fc1 as a not massively expensive but decent little red dot, low profile and not out of place on a carbine.

 

but if you don't like the look of it then it's not for you, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

likewise some folk don't like mini rds's like rmr's on a rifle, again a personal preference thing.

 

 

[alxndrhll]

35 minutes ago, DRay said:

Haha that’s not a bad shout to be fair mate but no, my eyesight is 20/20 and we do annual eye and colour perception tests. 
 

I watch the fall of shot because I am fucking lazy...

 

In terms of look, probably more minimalist than having some whacking great telescope on the top of my rifle to be honest with you. Something in-keeping with a carbine. 
 

I am undecided between a red dot, a small magnified optic or just sticking with another set of iron sights. 

 

Aye, that's what caught me off guard. I've always been blessed with very good eyesight, and honestly thought red dots always looking shit was down to poor quality replicas and thought nothing else of it. Picked up a fancy one, still looked terrible, did a google and following camera test on the optic... turns out it was my eyes all along!

 

Next on the 'have a ponder' list is figure out what you want the optic for. My personal preference on a magnified optic wouldn't go any further than a 4x and I like a decent field of view, makes tracking shots when it gets windy a bit easier, but I only tend to run magnified on 'sniper rifles'. Primary reason for the magnification is more identication than anything else, again, felt more needed when creeping around being sneaky beaky in the woods. Nothing worse than pulling off what you think is a superb flank... which turns out to be on your own team.

 

If you don't feel like you need any of that, a red dot or irons should see you right. Just useful to have for quickly getting on target before you start tracking the BBs as they leave your barrel.

 

Next consideration is the amount of weight you're willing to add to your RIFs, how well spread that weight is across the rail you put it on and how much that effects the balance of your RIF (if that's something you particularly care about).

 

Then there's the fun subject of mount height and what height feels comfortable/natural when you're wearing whatever eye/face pro you use. For example, I run a repro Unity mount when wearing my Dye mask, and a replica Geissele lower 1/3rd co witness mount when I'm not using said mask. But I'm very much at a point where I'm trying 'optimise' what I have on hand, for many the additional considerations and expense simply aren't worth it. Again, all just food for thought... from someone that tends to overthink everything, something restrictions/lockdowns have only made worse. Got to fill the time somehow 🤷‍♂️.

[Adolf Hamster]

16 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

Next on the 'have a ponder' list is figure out what you want the optic for. My personal preference on a magnified optic wouldn't go any further than a 4x and I like a decent field of view (makes tracking shots when it gets windy a bit easier, but I only tend to run magnified on 'sniper rifles'. Primary reason for the magnification is more identication than anything else, again, felt more needed when creeping around being sneaky beaky in the woods. Nothing worse than pulling off what you think is a superb flank... which turns out to be your own team.

 

agree on magnification, absolutely unnessecary for getting a hit, but very useful for target identification and shot-tracking (unlike real steel we can't rely on dirt splashes/target reactions).

 

i tend to find when i ran a variable on the m4 that it sat at around 4x constantly and i'd be using the stacked dot for 99% of shots.

[DRay]

Woah all sorts of terminology that I have no idea what anyone is talking about haha. 
 

Iron sights have been fine for me for ages, I think maybe the best shout is to have a look at what other people are running when the sites open again. 

[alxndrhll]

3 minutes ago, DRay said:

Woah all sorts of terminology that I have no idea what anyone is talking about haha. 
 

Iron sights have been fine for me for ages, I think maybe the best shout is to have a look at what other people are running when the sites open again. 

 

If you want a brief run down of the bits which have gone over your head somewhat just drop the terms in a reply and I'll try to turn them into things that mean something, knowledge is power and all that.

[Stevobeavo]

I bought a cheap eBay red dot, it has fully adjustment and the ability to change the dot from red to green. 

 

The dot is ok on the two lowest brightness settings but isn't as crisp on the higher settings. 

 

Red dots should be viewed with both eyes open. I've found it very good for target acquisition. 

[Guest]

No-one has mentioned parallax error yet.

 

Essentially, that is the benefit over iron sights, and the main reason red dots were invented in the first place.

 

Ill explain what that is, for the uninitiated (I only learned year before last)

 

A sight with very low or zero parallax error allows you to fire well before you’ve lined up your iron sights. Once you’ve zeroed the sight, as soon as you see the dot, that’s where your shot is going.

Most airsoft sights are no better than irons in this respect, so they’re all about the look

 

Here are a couple of examples. Both have ballistic reticules ( a small dot, with a much larger, often broken, circle around it) which is my personal preference.

In practical pistol competitions I find it a faster way to find the central dot :

 

A clone Romeo8, with very poor parallax. As your eye (the camera) moves around, so does the reticule. The gun, nor the sight, are moving, just the camera position

 

 

 

In this second video, ( I think it’s a Romeo4T, a real steel one, I can’t remember, but it doesn’t matter).

 

Again, only the camera, not the gun or sight is moving, but you can see, even at this very short distance (7m maybe?) the dot and circle (ballistic reticule) stay exactly on target. That is excellent parallax. Rare, but not unobtainable in airsoft.
The bright dot that is moving around is a reflection of the camera, you don’t see that with your eye.

 

[Enid_Puceflange]

Thanks for helping to explain that 👍

I wasn’t really sure what parallax was

 

I have 3 clone optics for my RIF’s 

all of which were probably no more than £40 new

all of which were bought for the look,  not performance. I now appreciate how a better holo/red dot would benefit me, but I can’t justify spending to replace my 3 cheapies with higher quality items

 

[AlphaBear]

Astigmatism affects many people it seems and age doesn't help matters either...The way to check is to take a photo of the reticle or red dot with your camera. If it's clear then you sadly are suffering from astigmatism.... One may around it is to use a magnification behind your optic. Try it.... 

 

Optics wise, if your budget allows it..... Vortex. They are by far the best value for buck and they are Real Steel. They will not lose their zero and you can drop them or have them shot out... They will get replaced under the VIP lifetime warranty... (easier said than done but it's there should you need to use it)

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Inconsistent mount will cause you to miss.

 

Consistent mount will hit the target.  It will also minimise parallax error which can be induced in any scope/most optics.   

 

Gun fit, consistent mount and practice equal success.  When you have those down pat, you can worry about this or that optic.  Up until then, fit what you like.  As others have mentioned, I also prefer a 4x mag scope, and would recommend Vortex due to the warranty if nothing else.  

 

Airsoft guns throw a pattern of BBs, they are not that consistent.  If you use it like a shotgun you don't go far wrong, at least that's my theory/technique.  Shotguns of course have no sights.  Unless you're sniping, quick acquisition point and shoot wins.  What helps you to do so, you will learn after you learn the technique, - and apologies if you know this already!      

 

 

[DRay]

On 07/03/2021 at 19:14, alxndrhll said:

 

If you want a brief run down of the bits which have gone over your head somewhat just drop the terms in a reply and I'll try to turn them into things that mean something, knowledge is power and all that.

Mate that would be awesome;

 

T1/T2? 
FC1?

RMR?

 

Also, the difference between a red dot/holographic/reflex sight? 
 

I can see the logic behind having some magnification for TAR, so I am maybe erring toward an optic with a wide field of view and a small amount of magnification. My prior experience of magnified optics is that they lose their zero pretty easily and ideally I would like to avoid having to do that every time I get it out of the bag. 
 

I have think £30 is a reasonable starter for 10 in terms of range. If there are any specific models you think are a decent shout I’d appreciate it 👍

[DRay]

If anyone has any thoughts on these I would appreciate it;

 

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/theta-optics-ris-open-reflex-sight

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/acm-holo-weapon-sight-mod-1

 

[hitmanNo2]

Avoid the replica Eotechs.  They're all shitty red dots with heavily tinted glass.  That is except for the Evolution Gear/Holy Warrior ones but you pay for the added quality and they're still red dots at the end of the day.

[DRay]

@hitmanNo2 so the second one linked there is a no go? 

[alxndrhll]

1 hour ago, DRay said:

Mate that would be awesome;

 

T1/T2? 
FC1?

RMR?

 

Also, the difference between a red dot/holographic/reflex sight? 
 

I can see the logic behind having some magnification for TAR, so I am maybe erring toward an optic with a wide field of view and a small amount of magnification. My prior experience of magnified optics is that they lose their zero pretty easily and ideally I would like to avoid having to do that every time I get it out of the bag. 
 

I have think £30 is a reasonable starter for 10 in terms of range. If there are any specific models you think are a decent shout I’d appreciate it 👍

 

T1/T2's are small red dot sights, the real steel is made by Aimpoint. There are a heap of replicas for them, sights such as the Vortex Crossfire also have a very similar footprint.

 

FC1 is a new one to me, a quick Google tells me they're a prism red dot. 'Prism' optics are often a go to option for folks that suffer with astigmatisms but still want a red dot-esq optic rather than a traditional rifle scope. The reason they're good for folks with astigmatisms? They have an etched reticle on a lens, much like a traditional rifle scope, (which is often illuminated) rather than a 'reflected' red dot as most conventional red dots do. TLDR, the fact it's an etched reticle rather than a 'reflected' one means astigmatisms don't effect the view of the dot.

 

RMR's are small reflex sights, the real steel is made by Trijicon. Again, a fair amount of replicas out there. In some circles RMR has kind of just become a colloquial term for 'reflex sight'.

 

Red dots and reflex sights work much the same in general terms, real steel holographic sights function differently but as mentioned previously by hitman the replica version tend to just be red dots in a holographic sight body.

 

I've only ever used Vortex magnified optics (because I seemingly have more money than sense). I believe 'Vision King'  are a well regarded fairly budget brand of magnified optics within airsoft circles. But I'll allow someone with actual experience with them to elaborate.

 

(If anyone knows better than I do here and believes anything I've said is inaccurate please correct me and I'll edit this post to prevent the spread of misinformation.)

[DRay]

Cheers mate that is great. I’m surprised that there aren’t more threads dedicated to sights and optics to be honest. But it does seem to be the case that people buy them more for the weapon silhouette rather than function. 

[alxndrhll]

10 minutes ago, DRay said:

Cheers mate that is great. I’m surprised that there aren’t more threads dedicated to sights and optics to be honest. But it does seem to be the case that people buy them more for the weapon silhouette rather than function. 

 

The main things folks tend to be specifically looking for if they want a more function optic is them being parallax free, or they're a GBBR user that's struggling with keeping zero on replicas. With regular AEGs losing zero doesn't tend to be too much of an issue, because there's nothing to really throw the zero off.

 

Only other considersation with magnified optics is the eye relief. Eye relief tends to be shown in inches, and it's simply how close to the objective lens your eye needs to be to get the proper sight picture. Eye relief is the primary reason I've gone with Vortex when I  get magified optics, I find a longer eye relief distance (i.e. my eye is further away from the objective lens) is just more comfortable to me and matches where I naturally cheek a RIF. As with pretty much everything with optics, entirely personal preference. Fortunately we don't have much recoil to contend with so you kind of go as short on eye relief as you find comfortable. Apologies for the absolute dump of terms, I believe that's the bulk of the 'big ones' out of the way.

 

As always, if I'm making little to no sense I'll happily try to simplify further. Very fine line between trying to explain things in plain English, and being condescending so I'm just making sure I'm treading carefully.

[Adolf Hamster]

58 minutes ago, DRay said:

If anyone has any thoughts on these I would appreciate it;

 

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/theta-optics-ris-open-reflex-sight

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/acm-holo-weapon-sight-mod-1

 

 

also worth avoiding open dots (ones where the emitter and glass are seperate)

 

you get one blob of rain on the emitter and bye bye ability to aim

[hitmanNo2]

1 hour ago, DRay said:

@hitmanNo2 so the second one linked there is a no go? 

Indeed.  I don't know if there's any around your budget, but I'd say check out what's on offer from Vector Optics.