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Today I bought my first airsoft rifle being the CSI XR5. I bought it with two tone as I do not have a UKARA or any other defence.

 

I recieved the gun today with out the two tone and was a bit surprised. I decided to phone the shop and they told me this gun does not need two tone as it is not a proper RIF (or something along those lines) and that it is perfectly legal for me to have.

 

I decided to message the grounds on where I will be playing and they told me although it's legal for me to have, it was illegal for the store to sell it me without two tone.

 

I am now confused on where do I stand with the gun, I'm told I can use it where I will be playing but if I get pulled over by police and cant provide a UKARA they can also confiscate it. Did the store illegally sell me a none two tone gun?

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As long as you're over 18 you can legally own it.  You don't need to do anything else now, just play with it (responsibly)

 

Its up to the retailer/seller to determine if the buyer is legitimate and retailers usually rely on UKARA registry for that.

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I know of at least one retailer who considers the CSI CR5 exempt as it's not based on any real firearm and cant be considered realistic. 

 

Not sure if I agree with it personally. Its not exactly in the spirit of the regulations. 

 

However to the OP. The fault is with the retailer if there is any. You are fine to field it no problem. 

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@Asomodai This is near enough how it was worded over the phone too me. I agree with you also, I would of believed anything that would fire the same pellets as a real fire arm would get the same treatment.

 

I feel it shouldn't be a retailer to make that call but hey I got a none two tone gun before my UKARA so bonus right haha.

 

I appreciate the reply back and thank you.

@EDcase I just felt a bit off ordering my gun with two tone as that's the rules before UKARA and the gun turning up with out it. Then when I phoned the shop they just brushed it off.

 

Personally I feel this should be mentioned on their website but I guess at least I'm not running around with a two tone gun haha. 

 

Thanks for the reply and thank you.

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You have done nothing wrong. Now that you have a RIF there is no legal impact on possession 

 

Strictly speaking, as long as your intent was to play airsoft at a proper site then the retailer has not committed an offence.  But they don’t have the audit trail to show them having taking reasonable steps to establish that.  If you were just planning to shoot some cans in the garden then they could have been facing a considerable fine

 

With regard to confiscation by the police, that could still happen if you had UKARA registration.  Get caught with it in public without good reason and you could be in trouble.  Simple solution is don’t be a dick, transport it responsibly and only carry it when going to or from a game.

(I don’t always do so and have been known to carry my guns in the boot for some time - even when I’m regularly potentially subject to a full search - but do as I say not as I do!!!!!)

I do bag up etc

 

With regard to whether the CR5 looks like a real firearm or looks like a firearm —- it looks like a firearm.

The R in RIF is realistic not real, and the definition is very fluffy - if anyone thinks it looks real then it is a RIF unless it is in the defined IF colours

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On 01/07/2020 at 18:41, Thedadoodle said:

I just felt a bit off ordering my gun with two tone as that's the rules before UKARA and the gun turning up with out it. Then when I phoned the shop they just brushed it off.

You should feel very happy.  Everyone who buys a two tone wishes they'd got a non-painted one (RIF) instead.

You did nothing wrong and its perfectly legal to own so enjoy

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18 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

With regard to whether the CR5 looks like a real firearm or looks like a firearm —- it looks like a firearm.

The R in RIF is realistic not real, and the definition is very fluffy - if anyone thinks it looks real then it is a RIF unless it is in the defined IF colours

 

I always figured it was like this. The idea is joe public going "ermagerd gun" rather than us gun nerds being "well actually it isnt based on any real firearm"

 

I mean we're dealing with people who can mistake a blind mans cane for a gun....

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Thanks for all the replies and knowledge. I knew the fact that I had done nothing wrong and I have done everything I can to make sure of this. 

 

Again just sounded like it was a bit suspicious. I thought even if the gun is legal without two tone, if I had paid for the service, I think an email would of been a decent move.

 

Again  really happy I don't have a two tone gun and cant wait to play. 

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RIF = realistic.  Does not matter whether is is an actual production gun or a sci-fi inspired one.  If it looks like a gun to Joe Public, then it is a gun, and that applies to the police as well.

I have a fairly good knowledge of weaponry, but seeing something that looks like a real gun and only seconds to decide upon the threat, I would engage the person holding it as if it was real and a potential danger to public safety. Honest held belief that it was real.

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Slight change of topic. I really do like the CSI XR5. I love the longer version with the OD Green :D I saw someone field one a year or so ago, very very quiet rifles. Look and feel better in person as well. Ideal for a DMR build. 

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@Asomodai Its my first airsoft gun, and I'm keen to try it out. Just got a CCCP 551 style holographic for it, had to get it in tan though. So I might get the Desert body kit for the xr5 some point in the future.

 

Also I have seen a DMR build for it. Looks fantastic!

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On ‎02‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 01:42, Asomodai said:

Slight change of topic. I really do like the CSI XR5. I love the longer version with the OD Green :D I saw someone field one a year or so ago, very very quiet rifles. Look and feel better in person as well. Ideal for a DMR build. 

I've got that version, love it, great gun , mine has decent range out of the box. Fitted a burst control dodad between the battery and the lead so I have 4 round burst on auto which is fun. The mags look very cool but are a tight fit in a stanag pouch. And the battery compartment in the handguard is HUGE ! mine swallows a 4400 mah Lipo .

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Looks good ! I tend to play sneaky so single shot and burst works for me, and when I want to hose I take the Minimi out with a box mag 😁

Here's mine

IMGP1738.JPG

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@Nick G Sorry its been a while to reply. However, I have now played my first skirmish and loved it. I can see why single fire or burst fire is more appreciated over the full auto. I have decided to spray all mine tan now to match the attachments. I just bought a new gun though, more of an m4 platform for ease of life I guess. Just got the Double Eagle m904a  Honey Badger. The Falcon Fire Control System sounds like fun. 

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On 01/07/2020 at 16:54, Thedadoodle said:

I decided to phone the shop and they told me this gun does not need two tone as it is not a proper RIF

 

Huh, I missed this while I was malingering.

 

Technically speaking, I think they're right.  VCRA 2006 S38 says:

 

“real firearm” means—
(a) a firearm of an actual make or model of modern firearm (whether existing or discontinued); or
(b) something falling within a description which could be used for identifying, by reference to their appearance, the firearms falling within a category of actual modern firearms which, even though they include firearms of different makes or models (whether existing or discontinued) or both, all have the same or a similar appearance.

 

(b) is some pencil pusher having a complete tard-out.  What it means is: variants of an actual firearm, like an AK with an M4 stock, or vice versa.

 

But the key point of S38 is that it has to be an actual firearm which is being, or has been, produced.

 

Now, I think that's a very silly definition and they should have stuck with a much more general description along the lines of "[yadda yadda] that a non-expert would identify as being a real firearm".

 

They didn't though, so XR-5s, Thunder Mauls and Pulse Rifles are not imitations of a real firearm.  The much requested G11 would be a RIF, even though the Man on the Clapham Omnibus might think it looks less real than an M41A.

 

That's the legalese.  Whether a court would actually follow it, I hope we never find out.

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57 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Huh, I missed this while I was malingering.

 

Technically speaking, I think they're right.  VCRA 2006 S38 says:

 

“real firearm” means—
(a) a firearm of an actual make or model of modern firearm (whether existing or discontinued); or
(b) something falling within a description which could be used for identifying, by reference to their appearance, the firearms falling within a category of actual modern firearms which, even though they include firearms of different makes or models (whether existing or discontinued) or both, all have the same or a similar appearance.

 

(b) is some pencil pusher having a complete tard-out.  What it means is: variants of an actual firearm, like an AK with an M4 stock, or vice versa.

 

But the key point of S38 is that it has to be an actual firearm which is being, or has been, produced.

 

Now, I think that's a very silly definition and they should have stuck with a much more general description along the lines of "[yadda yadda] that a non-expert would identify as being a real firearm".

 

They didn't though, so XR-5s, Thunder Mauls and Pulse Rifles are not imitations of a real firearm.  The much requested G11 would be a RIF, even though the Man on the Clapham Omnibus might think it looks less real than an M41A.

 

That's the legalese.  Whether a court would actually follow it, I hope we never find out.

 

there's also the aps uar versus everyone's favourite belgian space fish

 

end of the day the issue is joe public calls the police "i seen a man with a gun" they're not going to ask "was it the version with the romanian or bulgarian furniture?", they're gonna ask some serious questions.

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@Rogerborg Yeah, I was proper sceptical at first being my first gun and all. I got them to send it me in writing too just so I can reference back to a UKARA licenced store rather than just my own word. 

 

It's nuts how the law and legislations work with airsoft. Glad they're in place so we can do what we do, but they dont make it simple haha. I guess it's not helped with guns that are not replicas etc

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1 hour ago, Thedadoodle said:

I got them to send it me in writing too just so I can reference back to a UKARA licenced store rather than just my own word.

 

The good news is that you absolutely did not do anything wrong.  There's no offence of obtaining or trying to obtain a RIF, as long as you're 18+.  The offences are all committed by the seller / importer / manufacturer / modifier.

 

It is a bit crazy though.  As @Adolf Hamster notes, bullpups are all so Satanic and gopping that how do you tell what's a real toy one versus a fake toy one?

 

 

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@Rogerborg I was so shocked when I opened the box, I feel like its something they should put in the description of the item. I paid for the two tone service too. They refunded it but yeah as a first time buyer and not 100% on the rules it was a bit daunting.

 

Then I came to the forums and you wonderful people have filled me with knowledge. 

 

Yeah, them bull pups aye, love the look of the TAR but agree on the looks of them can be deceiving.

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