Gg Warthog 9' Upgrade / Maintenance

[Xeonzx2]

Hi all, i currently have a warthog 9” 

 

im looking around for some parts but if I’m honest having a hard time seeing what’s compatible (die to not really taking a gun apart before so no idea of internals etc..., reason for upgrade is because it shoots a pretty low (not very competitive FPS when playing) (about 260 -280) on .2g bb’s (what chrono says anyway) 

 

budget isn’t a issue and I’m not

looking for the most powerful performance either, 

 

 

could someone reccomend a list pf

parts and from where that I will need to upgrade / rebuild this gun. 
 

any recommendations are welcome 

 

any questions let me know 

 

thanks 

 

 

[Skara]

Check the air seal.

Most of the times it's just the piston/cylinder head o-ring not being lubed. a touch of silicone spray will surely fix it.

[Xeonzx2]

Will give that a try thanks and update when tested 

[Xeonzx2]

On 24/04/2020 at 13:00, Skara said:

Check the air seal.

Most of the times it's just the piston/cylinder head o-ring not being lubed. a touch of silicone spray will surely fix it.

So, after a slow disassembly , found a few things, one is that it’s very dirty and gritty inside so got a good Cleaning task ahead before I put anything back.

 

second is that the piston doesn’t have a great seal, so lubed and clean the o rings and cylinder and still the same, so am I right in thinking Anne’s piston kit will be needed ? 
 

notmin any rush so will be looking around to make sure the part I get is correct but again any recommendation for the part would be a huge help to me

 

thanks for the advice thus far    

[mightyjebus]

easiest way to improve the seal between the o ring and the cylinder is to pad the piston head with PTFE tape (the white stuff plumbers use). Remove the O ring and wrap the gap the O ring sat in with PTFE tape. If you do too little the seal will still be bad and if you do too much the piston won't move within the cylinder easily. it's a bit of trial and error to get the right amount but doesn't take long.

[Skara]

Or just a replacement o-ring, 10 cents and you're good to go.

You could stretch the one you have by placing it around the cylinder and warming it up with a lighter.

 

Much better imo than turning the piston into a mess with ptfe.

[E21A]

33 minutes ago, mightyjebus said:

easiest way to improve the seal between the o ring and the cylinder is to pad the piston head with PTFE tape (the white stuff plumbers use). Remove the O ring and wrap the gap the O ring sat in with PTFE tape. If you do too little the seal will still be bad and if you do too much the piston won't move within the cylinder easily. it's a bit of trial and error to get the right amount but doesn't take long.

no no no no no no no. Do not give horrendous shit advice. That’s a horrific bodge, ptfe should not be used to improve airseal. 
 

 

44 minutes ago, Xeonzx2 said:

So, after a slow disassembly , found a few things, one is that it’s very dirty and gritty inside so got a good Cleaning task ahead before I put anything back.

 

second is that the piston doesn’t have a great seal, so lubed and clean the o rings and cylinder and still the same, so am I right in thinking Anne’s piston kit will be needed ? 
 

notmin any rush so will be looking around to make sure the part I get is correct but again any recommendation for the part would be a huge help to me

 

thanks for the advice thus far    

You can either replace the seal as @Skara suggests or you can replace the piston head. Personally I’d change the piston head as the G&G plastic ones can crack (ask me how I know 🙄) 

 

Theres plenty more you can do (if you have the budget) while you’ve got it open. I’ve replaced all airseal parts on mine (same gun) so if you want any further help let me know. 

[mightyjebus]

33 minutes ago, E21A said:

no no no no no no no. Do not give horrendous shit advice. That’s a horrific bodge, ptfe should not be used to improve airseal. 
 

 

Why replace parts when there is no need? It's throwing money at a problem when a simple PTFE fix will do. I know this works well as I've used it loads of time. it's a simple problem where the o ring isn't putting enough pressure on the inside of the cylinder. Increasing the pressure by padding the O ring is a workable solution.

 

[Sitting Duck]

G&G stock/default piston heads are NOT that great imho

 

If it was me I'd buy this....

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons/shs-15-tooth-piston-and-piston-head-bl

 

SHS pistons can bind in some boxes but not G&G's

so piston will go in no problem

The head, though I'm not a fan of alloy piston heads - this head is a good one and seals very well

(if you get poor compression with this setup then you must have lost the o-ring)

 

PTFE the cylinder head in there to improve the seal, probably need 3 or 4 wraps on decent tape

or 6+ on cheapo poundland shit, but it does work, wrap it neatly inline with head, without a mess inside cylinder

trim off excess with a scalpel - job done

 

If you want to be anoraky about compression/cylinder head - test compression in a bowel of water

if cylinder head seal is not great you'll see bubbles pissing out around cylinder head as you test compression

(handy to confirm any compression issue is cylinder head or piston related)

 

grease, polish and grease again the o-ring and cylinder itself (goes without saying)

 

On the piston....

I'd remove the G&G piston spacer from G&G setup if it is in there and install the 5mm plastic & washer into SHS piston

If you have a bearing in the Warthog, then no worries - just use some thread lock on the piston head screw

as piston bearings do have a habit of undoing no matter how tight you screw them up

so thread lock - blue medium strength will suffice is must for piston head bearings

 

If it was another piston I'd say just replace o-ring, but if a std G&G one...

yeah I never really rated them, hence the SHS piston/piston head combo suggestion

 

If you have the higher end G&G piston...

 

or other...

 

 

Then I'd try another o-ring first but if you got the black one that is in most cheap to mid-range G&G's

well I wouldn't bother as compression was never outstanding no mater how many o-rings I tried

 

PTFE on cylinder head though a bit of a bodge, does work, but keep it tidy

bad attention to detail has given some methods a really bad stigma due to careless application

It works on cylinder heads very well - but not so great on pistons trying trying to improve compression

it tries to push the o-ring out to make greater contact with cylinder walls but at same time restricts the vents

(I've messed about with it a bit and did not get great results - suffice to say, get a better piston head to begin with)

 

imho - PTFE on cylinder head yes if done tidily

not so on piston head - get a better o-ring or better piston head

 

to each their own but if std G&G piston head, doubt if you will get fantastic compression (I never did)

[E21A]

7 hours ago, mightyjebus said:

Why replace parts when there is no need? It's throwing money at a problem when a simple PTFE fix will do. I know this works well as I've used it loads of time. it's a simple problem where the o ring isn't putting enough pressure on the inside of the cylinder. Increasing the pressure by padding the O ring is a workable solution.

 

no, it’s a bodge fix of a problem that’s easily solved the right way. 
 

There clearly is a need, the o ring isn’t sealing and therefore needs replacing. 
 

(note to self and anyone else reading this, never buy secondhand gun from mightyjebus) 

[mightyjebus]

you're right. What do I know?

[Tackle]

Note to myself:

"Don't ever publicly mention the shite I've bodged that actually works"

 

[Davegolf]

They must be using 3M VHB - shit / blankets

[Davegolf]

 

@Xeonzx2 for educational purposes as to why PTFE is not he best option for a piston O ring;

The piston is a 'dynamic seal' - this being it moves (obv) and its seal is created by the pressure difference ahead and behind of it it causing it to expand and tightly seal itself to the inside of the cylinder. It cannot achieve this if;

• It has dried out or otherwise gone hard / shrunk
• It has been running low on lube or with contaminated gritty lube essentially wearing it down in size
• It has got a load of PTFE under it and the air cannot get under it to expand it

PTFE will improve the airseal obv but not in the correct way and never as strongly as is capable when the seal is achieved dynamically.

PTFE on the cylinder head O ring works because is is a 'static seal' - you guessed it, it don't move!

 

As for quality parts and upgrading your gun, give it a thorough clean, if all is healthy wear wise other than the seals then buy one of these https://www.leesprecision.com/aeg-aep-internal-parts/cnc-machined-pom-aoe-adjustable-piston-head

 

Hands down the best cylinder head out there and it comes with 2 O rings, which are also very high quality, not the cheap shit ones with molding marks.

 

Before you fit the new O ring, carefully put it on the outside of the clean and dry cylinder, about 20mm from the end, carefully warm the inside of the cylinder until it feels just too warm to hold. Leave it to cool fully, then clean the cylinder / metal polish it if you want too.

Degrease it to make sure no polish left.

Lightly smear the inside of the cylinder with silicone grease, and like wise lightly grease the O ring.

 

Provided your nozzle and cyl head are greased and sealing well, and the cylinder head to cylinder is nice and tight you should find you have instant and mega airseal when you push the piston in whilst covering the nozzle with a finger.

 

At this point its worth testing your FPS again, then only then if its still not as much as youd like you could go up a spring power level.

Also if you want to upgrade accuracy too, fit a Prometheus 6.03 barrel with a new G&G green bucking. Clean and dry.

If playing field use 0.25 BBs

 

All in youll have spent about £90 and have a stonking little gun, and a spare O ring for the future. Best, Dave

 

TLDR; don't bodge - read that lot above

 

 

[E21A]

1 hour ago, Tackle said:

Note to myself:

"Don't ever publicly mention the shite I've bodged that actually works"

 

Doing it to your own gun and keeping it to yourself is very different than advising others to do it as a genuine “repair” 

 

[Tackle]

33 minutes ago, E21A said:

 

Doing it to your own gun and keeping it to yourself is very different than advising others to do it as a genuine “repair” 

 

I'm a bit "if it works, f#ck it", although not in the "day job" if you know what I mean.

Once walked in to a safezone mid game to a player having a major tantrum with his gat not shooting straight etc, to calm him down I said I'd have a look, somehow he'd lost his hop nub mid game, with it on my lap & nowt available I bodged a tiny bit of twig in there, & unbelievably it was then like a laser of epic proportions, shooting straighter & longer than anything I've ever seen, yet try tweaking something like that in a workshop environment with all the proper kit, probably wouldn't be half as good .

Sods law methinks 🤔

[mightyjebus]

16 minutes ago, E21A said:

 

Doing it to your own gun and keeping it to yourself is very different than advising others to do it as a genuine “repair” 

 

it is a genuine repair. The airsoft gearbox doesn't use some fancy "Space Magic" to work. The part we are talking about is a simple air compression system. There is a rubber ring on top of a piston that rides inside a cylinder. When the piston moves forward friction pushed the O ring backwards which compresses it and expands it and this expansion creates the seal (along with the fine coating of grease inside the cylinder) to create an airseal. If the rubber can expand in all directions then it will so by adding a pad to the inside of the piston head slot that the O ring sits inside you are limiting the expansion in that direction.

 

For info friction inside a cylinder is actually a bad thing hence the other need for grease.

 

It's not exactly rocket science.

 

I've been airsofting for 20 plus years, I'm an engineer by trade and I have around 260 airsoft guns which have all been in parts at one time or another. I know the difference between my arse and my elbow here. This design is from 1992 with the introduction of the TM Famas so it's not exactly cutting edge stuff here.

 

 

 

[E21A]

38 minutes ago, mightyjebus said:

it is a genuine repair. The airsoft gearbox doesn't use some fancy "Space Magic" to work. The part we are talking about is a simple air compression system. There is a rubber ring on top of a piston that rides inside a cylinder. When the piston moves forward friction pushed the O ring backwards which compresses it and expands it and this expansion creates the seal (along with the fine coating of grease inside the cylinder) to create an airseal. If the rubber can expand in all directions then it will so by adding a pad to the inside of the piston head slot that the O ring sits inside you are limiting the expansion in that direction.

 

For info friction inside a cylinder is actually a bad thing hence the other need for grease.

 

It's not exactly rocket science.

 

I've been airsofting for 20 plus years, I'm an engineer by trade and I have around 260 airsoft guns which have all been in parts at one time or another. I know the difference between my arse and my elbow here. This design is from 1992 with the introduction of the TM Famas so it's not exactly cutting edge stuff here.

 

 

 

It’s not a genuine repair, it’s a bodge. It’s actually also more long winded than just replacing the seal! 
 

Ported piston heads actually push the o ring outward into the cylinder wall with the pressure increase as they move forwards, but well done for demonstrating that you don’t know how they actually work. 

[Davegolf]

3 minutes ago, E21A said:

It’s not a genuine repair, it’s a bodge. It’s actually also more long winded than just replacing the seal! 
 

Ported cylinder heads actually push the o ring outward into the cylinder wall with the pressure increase as they move forwards, but well done for demonstrating that you don’t know how they actually work. 

 

As described above also, being dynamic means the o ring friction is reduced on the rearward travel.

[mightyjebus]

1 hour ago, Davegolf said:

 

As described above also, being dynamic means the o ring friction is reduced on the rearward travel.

 

[Davegolf]

Indeed... I think the OP has foxtrot Romeo oscar'd though

[Xeonzx2]

17 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Indeed... I think the OP has foxtrot Romeo oscar'd though

Not quite haha, gearbox is all over the desk, all being cleaned and regressed, ended up getting the new piston head so having to wait for that to arrive before any reassembally takes place, and wi thy postage being slow it will be a while, whe. It’s back together I’ll be updating with the results, of anything seeing the opinions on here is good as I’m not anything near an expert in maintaining it, but gotta learn somehow so thanks :)  

[E21A]

33 minutes ago, mightyjebus said:

 

🤔 a badly narrated and poor quality YouTube video. You’re not a flat earther/ antivaxxer as well are you? 

[Ad_]

4 hours ago, Davegolf said:

As for quality parts and upgrading your gun, give it a thorough clean, if all is healthy wear wise other than the seals then buy one of these https://www.leesprecision.com/aeg-aep-internal-parts/cnc-machined-pom-aoe-adjustable-piston-head

 

Hands down the best cylinder head out there and it comes with 2 O rings, which are also very high quality, not the cheap shit ones with molding marks.

 

I second this, although I prefer the aluminium ones: https://www.leesprecision.com/aeg-aep-internal-parts/cnc-machined-aluminium-aoe-adjustable-piston-head

 

4 hours ago, Davegolf said:

Provided your nozzle and cyl head are greased and sealing well, and the cylinder head to cylinder is nice and tight you should find you have instant and mega airseal when you push the piston in whilst covering the nozzle with a finger.

 

I find that some of the best performing piston O-rings in my guns fail this test and won't form a seal at all, unless the piston is travelling at speed so that the airflow through the ports on the piston head expands the O-ring out to make it seal.

 

When regreasing the cylinder/piston, I usually do it like this:

 

- Apply some silicone oil to the O-ring on the cylinder head, lifting it out so some oil also coats the groove it sits in, then apply some thick/high-viscosity silicone grease to (and slightly behind) the cylinder head O-ring and fit the cylinder head into the cylinder.

- Apply a very fine layer of silicone oil to the inside of the cylinder followed by some silicone grease.

- On the piston head, remove the O-ring and coat it with a small amount of silicone oil. Add a fine layer to the groove it sits in as well. Then replace the O-ring and coat the outside with a small amount of silicone grease.

- On the cylinder aperture that the nozzle sits on, I apply a fine layer of thick silicone grease. I also apply some to the O-ring on the inside of the nozzle if it's an air-seal nozzle (and if it isn't an air-seal nozzle then I replace it with an air-seal nozzle first and then do this).

 

It's probably a bit overkill but I find it works very nicely and holds up well over time

[Davegolf]

 

1 hour ago, Ad_ said:

I find that some of the best performing piston O-rings in my guns fail this test and won't form a seal at all, unless the piston is travelling at speed so that the airflow through the ports on the piston head expands the O-ring out to make it seal.

 

This is the reason for the heat set stretch, gives much better seal from a standstill, also excess grease blocking ports will negatively affect sealing too.

 

This is why I never use a full cylinder, the sudden ramp up in pressure a port provides allows a much more instant and consistent seal.

 

1 hour ago, Ad_ said:

It's probably a bit overkill but I find it works very nicely and holds up well over time

 

Little OCD

 

Just use this stuff on all air seal parts