Selective Cloning ?

[Tackle]

So I was thinking about guns on my wishlist, you know the type, rarely seen on the forums etc & often too pricey brand new to justify splurging on, especially if your like me & already have a considerable arsenal, don't feel like downsizing it, but at the same time aren't playing as much as you like 😭 (I think a shrink would class it as Hoarding ?)

Anyway, my current wishlist (which changes almost daily lol) AA12/L1A1/MK5 Sterling to name but a few, & wondered why these examples, & others, haven't been touched by the companies we associate with cloning, in particular companies such as CYMA, who generally make great copies at great prices.

Am I missing something ?

[Skara]

Not enough demand to justify mass production most likely.

 

If I were to copy something I'd copy something that sells, not some niche product.

 

Plus manufacturing something intricate means pumping up the price at the point in which it's not worth buying the copy but going straight for the original.

[Tackle]

To a degree I agree & disagree (try saying that 10 times with a drink in ya 🥴), I get that with the aa12 is a fairly intricate design further complicated by three barrels etc, but for the SLR less so ?, same with the Mk5, & let's be honest, if makers were true to the design, one only needs semi/safe, the other full auto, so less work essentially ?.

Going back a few years I remember a couple of guys successfully made their own Mk5's in shed workshops & I think there are ?, or were, plans you could buy to replicate their work, so for a manufacturer who already has extensive facilities at their disposal, their halfway there ?.

Regards demand, I think it's there for models like the SLR, barely a month goes by & another new "wanted" ad goes up looking for one, & to be honest the tech on them is fairly "old skool", no fancy bits just bog standard BB chucker ?.

I think this lack of tech combined with fairly high RRP's for the current brands, which at the moment is only one, is what puts people off, for the price of the Ares you can buy 2, or even 3 guns of a similar tech but in a different platform, such as a cyma M14 in any of its variants.

I reckon if CYMA could make one at the right price, it'd be like Coronavirus panic buying, players would clear the shelves ?, especially the teams doing cold war stuff etc.

I think while I have plenty myself, I'm tiring if just seeing reworked AR platform designs (says me who's just bought a k-pdw variant🤪), even the big names keep rehashing an old design, giving it a fancy tactical name or acronym, & the masses lapping it up, it's all a bit knob-itch ?.

I think at the mo I'd even rather see someone bring out guns that don't have real steel counterparts, but look the dogs, have mag compatability ,have matching internals for upgrades & repairs, & are a bit different ? (But not thunder maul shit lol)

Am I the only one who feels this way ?

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tackle said:

....stuff about guns....

yes

[Tackle]

1 hour ago, rocketdogbert said:

yes

Don't go confusing me, it's easy enough at the best of times, never mind when they've dosed me up with morphine 🤕

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Don't go confusing me, it's easy enough at the best of times, never mind when they've dosed me up with morphine 🤕

what in the hospital for? I hated morphine, only ever enough to take the edge off

[Tackle]

1 hour ago, rocketdogbert said:

what in the hospital for? I hated morphine, only ever enough to take the edge off

Turp biopsies mate, had em on Friday & thought they'd let me home, but depending on results, may be an urgent surgery, & they were worried if they let me out I'll lose the bed, & then can't get back in the door so to speak.......not great times to get sick lol, only hurts when I piss 😭

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Turp biopsies mate, had em on Friday & thought they'd let me home, but depending on results, may be an urgent surgery, & they were worried if they let me out I'll lose the bed, & then can't get back in the door so to speak.......not great times to get sick lol, only hurts when I piss 😭

ah bugger, not a time to be in hosp. Get well soon bud

[Zarrin]

9 hours ago, Skara said:

Not enough demand to justify mass production most likely.

 

If I were to copy something I'd copy something that sells, not some niche product.

 

Plus manufacturing something intricate means pumping up the price at the point in which it's not worth buying the copy but going straight for the original.

 

@Skarais definitely correct here regarding demand. 

I think if you want something to sell well in airsoft, one of the considerations is propitiatory (TF for spellcheck) magazines.

using the examples you gave (AA12, FAL and sterling) there are very few designs which can use these mags other than the base model - there are a small hand full of SLR type rifles but still a small enough collection to be considered propitiatory.

If you want any chance of something flying of the shelves you want it to take M4 mags (and to a lesser extent AK and maybe MP5 and G36). If you do decide to go down the route of niche model then you are gonna have to stack that price up to the point where it doesn't feel like you are really getting a CYMA price tag, because it's just not going to sell that many.

 

Though it does surprise me how cheaply P90s can be had new from the shops - I see them infrequently enough at games (probs between 0-2 people at any one game) to make me think they should be niche and carry quite a hefty tag, but they don't.

[Cromulon1994]

China does come up with some niche stuff. 

The agm sten, mp40, and stg44 for example. 

If only they'd make an FG42

[Zarrin]

1 hour ago, Cromulon1994 said:

China does come up with some niche stuff. 

The agm sten, mp40, and stg44 for example. 

If only they'd make an FG42

 

I would love to see a decent ACM manufacturer do an entire range of niche WW2 stuff...

FG42, G43, SVT40 - That would be shweeeeeet!

If someone like LCT or RS came along with these they would cost an arm n a leg.

 

But there is no way even ACM could do that kinda model for lets say the sub 200 price bracket, they wouldn't sell enough. Mp40, STG44 and thompson are automatic golden oldies, people love them from ww2 movies, cod, moh, dod and countless other titles, so you are always gonna have masses of people dip in for that accessible, skirmish-able bit of niche fun.

[Spoon987]

Please delete, baby son posted on my behalf during nappy change 🤦🏻‍♂️

[Sitting Duck]

11 minutes ago, Spoon987 said:

Please delete, baby son posted on my behalf during nappy change 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

You not toilet trained yet ???

 

tbh, with all the toilet roll shortage and getting on a bit I'm bidding on a few months supply of incontinence pants before they all get sold out

shhhh don't let on, incontinence pants are the next big thing to stockpile

(risky but not as shit as losing on the stock markets - bet some traders have pissed & shit themselves empty)

[Asomodai]

Echoing peoples thoughts here. It makes no sense to copy something on a platform that has just one or two variants.

 

Its impressive that Cyma took a basic AUG design and transplanted it into an F2000 body with just one new part (magwell). So they do look to maximise current designs. 

 

Though sometimes they do hit it out of the park. Look at the ASP/Cyma SVU, sure SVD internals but a very different shell. I am also surprised that JG/Golden Eagle did they Ares M200 copy. 

[remus]

still dont known how theres not more electric mps, though i suppose the issue is making a battery that fits in with a proper gearbox...

[Tackle]

7 hours ago, Asomodai said:

Echoing peoples thoughts here. It makes no sense to copy something on a platform that has just one or two variants.

 

Its impressive that Cyma took a basic AUG design and transplanted it into an F2000 body with just one new part (magwell). So they do look to maximise current designs. 

 

Though sometimes they do hit it out of the park. Look at the ASP/Cyma SVU, sure SVD internals but a very different shell. I am also surprised that JG/Golden Eagle did they Ares M200 copy. 

I get it, I am, or at least have been an engineer myself, which has included building passenger railway carriages in-house from the bogeys up, everything hand crafted & very little mass production, but if for example we were to just use the L1A1 as the primary base model, how many more models are achievable based upon the stock body design, prob at least half a dozen, 3 or 4 FAL variants, 2 or 3 FNC variants, plus there's the AK-5 variants, at least 3 of those ?.

this is all just supposition & conjecture on my part though, to be honest I'm not even sure what version gearbox was used in the ka or ares slr's, but if it's a generic version, again that's a big part of the work already covered ?.

 I'm also reminded of custom builds of old, featured on long dead forums, where guys desperate for more obscure unavailable kit just said fudge-it, I'll make it myself, some of the old guard here may remember someone knocked up a couple of wa2000's years before a manufacturer considered one, or the guy that built a working vickers & a Lewis gun, true works of art, or the Aussie Owen gun........all using standard internals from various platforms grafted in to custom homemade shells.

its all just about propelling bb's anyways, it's easy to get hung up on the cosmetics & forget they're all essentially the same, but other than the fact that manufacturers may be shitting themselves about taking a financial risk, the actual building of the product wouldn't be that hard surely ?

Ares want around £470 for an SLR (& they're pretty much always sold out), if cyma or similar firm could knock one out for £235 (a lot for any Cyma ?), hands up who'd buy one ☝️?

[Asomodai]

Would I personally buy an SLR? Nope. The Ares one has a terribly thing gearbox as well so I wouldnt want a clone let alone original.

 

My"taste" is very different to most airsofters though. 

[Zarrin]

46 minutes ago, Tackle said:

if cyma or similar firm could knock one out for £235 (a lot for any Cyma ?), hands up who'd buy one ☝️?

 

If they put something out like this, then i would maybe think about it. https://airsoft.tiger111hk.com/p22847/Classic-Army-Metal-SA58-OSW-Assault-Rifle-AEG-(Black)/product_info.html 

 

Though of the full length battle rifles I would be looking at a G3A3/A4  first and foremost - I am kind of in the market for one actually... sort of... maybe... maybe not... I dunno 😔

 

One of the things I've always been a bit uncertain about with the FAL is the size of the mags, they look super wide.. possibly too wide for a pouch built for your common 30cal variants (SR25/ScarH/G3/M14).

 

I don't even know if I'm correct in assuming that, anyone know if a FAL mag will fit in an SR25 taco?

 

[Tackle]

14 minutes ago, mzjango said:

 

If they put something out like this, then i would maybe think about it. https://airsoft.tiger111hk.com/p22847/Classic-Army-Metal-SA58-OSW-Assault-Rifle-AEG-(Black)/product_info.html 

 

Though of the full length battle rifles I would be looking at a G3A3/A4  first and foremost - I am kind of in the market for one actually... sort of... maybe... maybe not... I dunno 😔

 

One of the things I've always been a bit uncertain about with the FAL is the size of the mags, they look super wide.. possibly too wide for a pouch built for your common 30cal variants (SR25/ScarH/G3/M14).

 

I don't even know if I'm correct in assuming that, anyone know if a FAL mag will fit in an SR25 taco?

 

The SA58 is another FAL variant, if I remember correctly it's just a fal, built under license to suit an armed force of a particular country, not unlike the L1A1, this is what I'm talking about though, it's not a design necessarily restricted two one or two models or variants, so depending on where you live/your resident militaries history etc, or just your penchant for things non AR, there's an FN for you.

incidentaly the mags look big, but they're almost identical to an m14 mag, slightly longer I think ?, so any designated 7.62 pouch should fit, I have a few of those 7.62 shingles, but also use the elasticated sides taco style pouches, all work fine, but obviously if your going for specific loadouts, such as '70's Brit squaddie then '58 pattern is your only real choice (personally I hated them when I was "in", more like a canvas bucket than a dedicated mag pouch).

[Zarrin]

56 minutes ago, Tackle said:

The SA58 is another FAL variant,

 

Yeah, but assuming someone like CYMA were to create one, we would want to see them create a line of all the different variants including the SLR and SA58 - they would basically use the same base gun with different fore-ends, stocks and top rail.

 

56 minutes ago, Tackle said:

so any designated 7.62 pouch should fit, I have a few of those 7.62 shingles, but also use the elasticated sides taco style pouches, all work fine, but obviously if your going for specific loadouts, such as '70's Brit squaddie then '58 pattern is your only real choice (personally I hated them when I was "in", more like a canvas bucket than a dedicated mag pouch).

 

Good to know - just from pics alone they always looked a tad wider than some of the other battle rifle mags. 

 

I tend to use the taco pouches whenever possible.. I love that AK mags actually fit in my m4 tacos really well, I used to use the big double eastern block style Viper pouches - quite awkward. I still don't have a great solution for my SVD midcaps, so I carry them in one big belt pouch on a yoke with some card board separators lol.

Though it has just occurred to me that I have quite a lot of old issue US Alice webbing and the mag pouches may fit the SVD mags... hmmm! 

As you can probably surmise, I'm not too serious about being period correct or getting loadouts spot on, I try to be as practical as possible without letting things just look outright wrong!

Having said that when I first got into it all my mate was really into building exact loadouts; at the time they were usually US@Iraq or 'black hawk down' based so sometimes we would build them out together so we looked more like a team. It was kind of fun, but i really preferred keeping it all light and ergonomic! Not worn my Interceptor vest in over 10 years.. and I doubt I ever will again 😏.