Rubber Machete

[Tommikka]

7 hours ago, Sawyer said:

You were there? Just curious, because you say he complied.

I wasn’t there 

In the sense that he gave his real name on the first occasion, as you said you would in the post I quoted

 

In the video showing the third occasion it is understandable why a 64 year old black man does not give his name again (when having done so in the past hasn’t helped) and feels that he is racially profiled, repeatedly accused of being a younger man of interest.  
 

Sus law is mentioned earlier in the thread.

Its just a presumption on my part, but a 64 year old black man with dreads is likely to have been familiar with use of this in the 70s for stop & search and detention purely on suspicion 

He is not required to identify himself, he isn’t being compliant, he is arguing, he is not running away - he is walking away, and going onto his property.
 

As I said - it is understandable why he is belligerent, it is not understandable why he is repeatedly stopped and alledged to be a different younger man, particularly as after the first occasion he became an active in a police community scheme aiming to prevent such situations 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

10 hours ago, Sawyer said:

To be honest, I'd just comply, tell them who I REALLY am

 

Being honest, do you often get stopped by the police and accused of being some other guy who looks nothing like you apart from being white with vaguely similar hair?

 

Have you served on an advisory board that was set up to educate the police in why you shouldn't have to account for yourself based on a generalised description?

 

Easy to say what you would do when it's never happened to you and most likely never will.

 

 

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Also " went hands on and broke his shoulder while cuffing him, leaving him with lasting injuries. " In my years in, I never once injured a COMPLIANT prisoner, so it makes me wonder how much resistance he was offering up.

 

Did you ever bag the wrong suspect in a way that resulted in your force starting up a community relations program specifically because of the way that you handled the situation?

 

Because that's what actually happened to this chap, so I'm inferring that he was the (literally) injured party in that original case.

 

 

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if no resistance is given, no force will be used.

 

And yet, they put a community relations program in place specifically because of using force against him in the past.

 

 

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I think it's a bit of a stretch to say they're still mistaking him though. A unit asked him his name, he didn't reply, they looked closer, saw it wasn't him and foxtrot oscared, hardly a violation of his rights.

 

I didn't say that it was, but they clearly are still mistaking him. They didn't ask him his name, they shouted "Royston" - you'll know why, to see if he reacted.  Oh, apparently it's happened for a fourth time now[*].

 

That was the casus belli in the videod incident as well.  It's not shown on the released bodycam footage and the neighbour didn't start recording the initial interaction, but confirmed that they didn't "ask his name", they accused him of being McCalla.  McCalla has a marker for going armed and resisting, so you'll also understand why the interaction started without hugs and handshakes.

 

However, all that means is that it was more likely to escalate, which it did.

 

The root problem is assuming identity based on "IC3, dreadlocks".  As long as they keep doing that, this is going to keep happening to one degree or another.  They know fine well that it's wrong and counter-productive: again, they set up an advisory body because of it.

 

[*] Avon and Somerset are now issuing fingerprint scanners to ID people.  I'm not seeing how that solves the actual problem, and it might very well make it worse.

[Musica]

65 year old woman gets the tazer. she deserved it

 

 

[Tommikka]

5 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

However, all that means is that it was more likely to escalate, which it did.

.

Aside from all of the general factors, escalation is a key factor.

 

He does act with a degree of aggression, pointing can be aggressive, and he could be referred to as aggressively pointing at the male officer.  He isn’t pursuing the pointing or getting in their faces, he does point later in the video .... away to the side etc

 

The Officers do need to assert and be ready with aggression.  (Without seeing the whole situation from start to finish we don’t know everything) but they appear agressive from the outset.

They don’t come up with a reason why he must identify himself, they just continue 

He takes no actual action other than attempting to shut his gate

 

The officers take no steps for deescalation, I don’t know if others would take this the same way but she calls him ‘fella’

This is an agressive phrase and not taken kindly by many, including me. It is not a word to be used by officers in the street 

 

I consider our police to be world leaders in deesclation.  There are many violent incidents which have been calmed down by our police, ending up with arrests where others would result in shootings

The dealings with him and failure to resolve policing issues on the street appear to be a farce in Bristol 

[Tackle]

19 hours ago, Musica said:

He was aggressive, offensive and non compliant with the officers. Doesn't matter what happened in the past it's not relevant to the situation. Just because he is old doesn't mean they can't use force.

Blimey, & people think I'm an angry cnut 😜

[Rogerborg]

12 hours ago, Musica said:

65 year old woman gets the tazer. she deserved it

 

For the comedy value if nothing else.

[Tackle]

Let's be honest, as it's in the USA, her age doesn't count, cops out there zap/shoot everything, including each other lol 😂 

[John_W]

Bit late to the party, but back to the original subject, article from my local paper.

https://www.borehamwoodtimes.co.uk/news/17829311.armed-police-helicopter-called-borehamwood/

While it turns out this was a genuine incident, it started with someone reporting "a guy with a machette" on the local Facebook pages.

[Tackle]

Exactly, great example, but having been "reported" via social media, could just have easily been an Airsoft dope who didn't conceal his toys properly, & then triggered a major operation.

[John_W]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/student-filmmakers-handcuffed-by-armed-police-while-making-movie-on-streets-of-london-a4282551.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1573227235

Some nice shots of the ARU gear too.

[Rogerborg]

19 minutes ago, John_W said:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/student-filmmakers-handcuffed-by-armed-police-while-making-movie-on-streets-of-london-a4282551.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1573227235

Some nice shots of the ARU gear too.

 

"get a film weapon crime reference number "  WUT?

 

I have to wonder: what else did they expect to happen?

[Tackle]

49 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

"get a film weapon crime reference number "  WUT?

 

I have to wonder: what else did they expect to happen?

Lol, yesterday it was remarked about the number of "thick cnuts" Airsoft seems to attract (present company accepted😛), but what's worse:

A. Thick cnuts who put up posts asking "I'm making a film, can I wave rifs around in the street"

B. Thick cnuts who just go out & do it.

 

The mind boggles 🤔

[Tommikka]

9 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

"get a film weapon crime reference number "  WUT?

 

I have to wonder: what else did they expect to happen?

That would be a Film weapon CAD number and students who can’t work their ears

 

https://www.met.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/downloads/central/advice/filming/guidelines-filming-location-london.pdf

 

CAD being Computer Aided Despatch - used by taxi firms and the emergency services.  I would hope that the Mets CAD is quite refined and a movies CAD reference as a result of a proper application would advise the 999 despatch call centre so that they would still send a response just in case it’s a real incident near to a filming location

 

 

 

(also with the criminal arms dealer who committed offences whilst using Bond films as a cover would be in the back of the mind of someone who had been involved in bond films and creating a film school)

 

 

 

[Sawyer]

1 hour ago, Tommikka said:

 I would hope that the Mets CAD is quite refined

😂

It is based on old British Airways baggage handling software.

 

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Elite officers carrying Heckler & Koch semi-automatic rifles

Despite clearly having photos of Sig MCXs.

[Rogerborg]

12 hours ago, Sawyer said:

It is based on old British Airways baggage handling software.

 

Which was itself derived from the British Linen Bank's paperclip inventory system running on a UNIVAC.

[Sawyer]

12 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Which was itself derived from the British Linen Bank's paperclip inventory system running on a UNIVAC.