Delta 1 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 On 10/08/2019 at 15:10, Druid799 said: Think a lot of the arguments against are coming at the question from the wrong direction , you shouldn’t think as a civi asking “could it help the professionals train ?” BUT should think as a professional would of “can it help us train ?” if you do handle real guns for what ever reason on a daily basis then I’d still say yes they can be a real training aid (admittedly not as offered earlier about running drills in the house😉) due to the fact there totally at ease with them being just a tool for a job nothing more nothing less , would mean you could run training near anywhere you wanted and not be limited to only using sites that are covered for the use of simunitions . We’ve all come across the used silver cases scattered on Airsoft sites after the police have been training there ? All very well they can shoot semi live rounds at each other there but basically all the sites we play at are great if your training for a ‘MAD MAX’ apocalypse but real world scenario’s ? Not really much use , but with Airsoft guns you can have a lot less restrictions on where you can or can’t train as you’ve not got the sound of gunfire ringing through air , so basically as long as your out of site of joe public you can run training ops . No recoil and potential weight differences ? Don’t think that’ll have any bering on the benefits , in the army and police you run most weapons training with unloaded guns and empty magazines . Last thing I’d say as well is if you watch any of the YouTube videos of real soldiers/police playing Airsoft you see they use the same techniques they’d use on a daily basis so if they can do there drills AND be able to shoot the ‘bad guys’ then yes it’s definitely a benefit . I’ve been a contractor for 10 years so handle weapons on a daily basis also used them multiple times kinetically and only just seen for myself how useful airsoft is. we use sim ammunition while training at our security base the weapons are converted so are in aspects real, airsoft weapons are very realistic toys however I can now see the very real application of conducting TTPs using them. Yes the firing isn’t realistic but the handling and weapon manipulation is the same when conducting room combat etc. I’ve just introduced airsoft to some fellow contractors and they are of the same opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkee Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 21 hours ago, ImTriggerHappy said: About how some delusional fuckers think airsoft is in someway like real life. You know the type, they daydream about how one day they will called up to defend their country with all their airsoft experience. Those that believe shouting tango and holding onto their mates shoulder while entering a room makes them the airsoft equivalent of the sas. Saw this very thing at Urban last year, load of young ish blokes all in matching kit and guns 'breaching' a room............which the rest of their team had been occupying for 10 minutes already.....they even went out at lunch to practice their 'skills' . Should have seen the state of the little cock who was 'leading' them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Oakmont Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 37 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said: Saw this very thing at Urban last year, load of young ish blokes all in matching kit and guns 'breaching' a room............which the rest of their team had been occupying for 10 minutes already.....they even went out at lunch to practice their 'skills' . Should have seen the state of the little cock who was 'leading' them..... You sound envious, maybe you need to go on a heresy group black course!!!!!😜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musica Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 53 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said: Saw this very thing at Urban last year, load of young ish blokes all in matching kit and guns 'breaching' a room............which the rest of their team had been occupying for 10 minutes already.....they even went out at lunch to practice their 'skills' . Should have seen the state of the little cock who was 'leading' them..... You know what they say dress for the job you want 🤣 I think there is a disconnect with people thinking wearing and buying the expensive kit will make them a Navy Seal. I do genuinely believe if someone does dry fire drills and to some lesser extend target shooting with a GBBR/GBBP they will have muscle memory built on the real steel version. Drawing a pistol up and finding your sight picture doesn't require the real thing to practice. For me I don't care about getting better with real weapons I do want to get better at airsoft as I enjoy playing so why wouldn't I want to. My local has opened an attack sense shooting range I've been tempted to go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted August 14, 2019 Supporters Share Posted August 14, 2019 32 minutes ago, Musica said: You know what they say dress for the job you want 🤣 I think there is a disconnect with people thinking wearing and buying the expensive kit will make them a Navy Seal. I do genuinely believe if someone does dry fire drills and to some lesser extend target shooting with a GBBR/GBBP they will have muscle memory built on the real steel version. Drawing a pistol up and finding your sight picture doesn't require the real thing to practice. For me I don't care about getting better with real weapons I do want to get better at airsoft as I enjoy playing so why wouldn't I want to. My local has opened an attack sense shooting range I've been tempted to go to. I used to play private games of a sort of airsoft nature with a bunch of guys who all served and a couple who still work in that area and they were of a different opinion. They said with a real gun although the initial first shot might be a similar thing regarding aiming every follow up shot was definitely not. A real gun requires you to have the muscle memory of snapping it back to target where an airsoft gun doesn't. They said that being used to a real gun makes you pull an airsoft gun off sight and being used to an airsoft gun means you wouldn't have the same ability to pull a gun back for each shot. The guys who still did stuff used toys that were totally different to what they would normally use as they liked to keep the two very separate. I personally would take their opinion over most as listening to these guys chat as an outsider the fact they all knew each other meant bullshit wasn't a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Oakmont Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 hour ago, ImTriggerHappy said: I used to play private games of a sort of airsoft nature with a bunch of guys who all served and a couple who still work in that area and they were of a different opinion. They said with a real gun although the initial first shot might be a similar thing regarding aiming every follow up shot was definitely not. A real gun requires you to have the muscle memory of snapping it back to target where an airsoft gun doesn't. They said that being used to a real gun makes you pull an airsoft gun off sight and being used to an airsoft gun means you wouldn't have the same ability to pull a gun back for each shot. The guys who still did stuff used toys that were totally different to what they would normally use as they liked to keep the two very separate. I personally would take their opinion over most as listening to these guys chat as an outsider the fact they all knew each other meant bullshit wasn't a thing. Re your friends comments, first paragraph no problem. second paragraph I'm afraid I'm going to have to call bullshчt on that. If you react to an Airsoft gun firing you are flinching not anticipating recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted August 14, 2019 Supporters Share Posted August 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, osteoshot said: Re your friends comments, first paragraph no problem. second paragraph I'm afraid I'm going to have to call bullshчt on that. If you react to an Airsoft gun firing you are flinching not anticipating recoil. Didn't say he was reacting he said he has a habit of readying for the recoil and kept pulling the gun downwards slightly sometimes as he fired. He basically put it as when you fire a gun you learn to instinctively do one one thing to compensate for the gun. I personally couldn't tell you no real experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musica Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 It makes sense to me. I also can't see someone who shoots a real gun flinching at firing an airsoft toy. They are over compensating because they are used to doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Oakmont Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 51 minutes ago, Musica said: It makes sense to me. I also can't see someone who shoots a real gun flinching at firing an airsoft toy. They are over compensating because they are used to doing so. Nope , overcompensating because they can't shoot for shit. I won't go on but seen plenty of people react as if the gun has fired on a dead mans click, lets you know immediately that there is a lack of confidence and or competence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted August 14, 2019 Supporters Share Posted August 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, osteoshot said: Nope , overcompensating because they can't shoot for shit. I won't go on but seen plenty of people react as if the gun has fired on a dead mans click, lets you know immediately that there is a lack of confidence and or competence. Ok well that's your opinion but me personally if the guy who fired real guns for a living says that he has a habit of pushing the barrel down slightly on airsoft gun because he is used to dropping a gun back then I am not going to argue. Never joined the paras myself so no expert on real gun control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Oakmont Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 If he's in the para's he doesn't shoot guns for a living, he keeps fit and stamps around a lot. This isn't in anyway disrespectful to para's but I can guarantee that you would not believe how little he actually gets to shoot live rounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musica Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 26 minutes ago, osteoshot said: I won't go on but, but you do go on. 8 minutes ago, osteoshot said: If he's in the para's he doesn't shoot guns for a living, he keeps fit and stamps around a lot. This isn't in anyway disrespectful to para's but I can guarantee that you would not believe how little he actually gets to shoot live rounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibbsOnTour Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, osteoshot said: If he's in the para's he doesn't shoot guns for a living, he keeps fit and stamps around a lot. This isn't in anyway disrespectful to para's but I can guarantee that you would not believe how little he actually gets to shoot live rounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Oakmont Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Hahaha, you must believe in the magic money tree. go find an active serving para/marine ask them how much range time they get in a year, then go speak a regular shooting member of a gun club. I know who pulls the trigger more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted August 14, 2019 Supporters Share Posted August 14, 2019 26 minutes ago, osteoshot said: Hahaha, you must believe in the magic money tree. go find an active serving para/marine ask them how much range time they get in a year, then go speak a regular shooting member of a gun club. I know who pulls the trigger more 26 minutes ago, osteoshot said: Hahaha, you must believe in the magic money tree. go find an active serving para/marine ask them how much range time they get in a year, then go speak a regular shooting member of a gun club. I know who pulls the trigger more If you actually read what I wrote the guy is an ex para who now works security stuff abroad. Yes he was in the paras as so were a few others in the group including his brother so don't think he would of got away with bullshit. How many rounds he has fired fuck knows as I wasn't there. I know he came out about 7yrs ago and did a fair amount of time in. I was just saying what I can remember him saying from a conversation in the pub after playing about 3yrs ago. As I said I have no reason to question what he said but as I know he wasn't a walt or a bloater I don't see why I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Oakmont Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said: If you actually read what I wrote the guy is an ex para who now works security stuff abroad. Yes he was in the paras as so were a few others in the group including his brother. How many rounds he has fired fuck knows as I wasn't there. I know he came out about 7yrs ago and did a fair amount of time in. I was just saying what I can remember him saying from a conversation in the pub after playing about 3yrs ago. As I said I have no reason to question what he said but as I know he wasn't a walt or a bloater I don't see why I would. Fair enough ( is that a short enough answer for you musica? 😀) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musica Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E21A Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 @ImTriggerHappy are they all ex para’s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Pauly Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Interesting thread. I have some experience with real firearms - shotgun shooting in the UK - but that’s a completely different ball game to airsoft. Or rifle game. Whatever. Not really comparable. For anyone familiar with martial arts, I think this discussion a bit like asking: “Can katas translate to real fighting skills?” Katas being sequences of attack/defence moves performed in sequence. In that context, sure there is some cross-over and benefit in practicising a kata. It can greatly improve your posture, technique, flow/movement, etc. In the same way, I imagine that skirmishing and weapon drills practised using airsoft would hone some of the skills needed for real firearms use (emphasis on the "some"). That said, during my time in martial arts (20+ years), I've noticed that being great at kata doesn't by default make someone great at sparring/fighting. In fact, some of the best kata guys I've known really suck when it comes to a fight. So I think we need to define the context here. Are we comparing airsoft target shooting to real steel target shooting? In which case, I think the airsofter's skillset could prove quite useful, sufficient to give them a head start over a total non-shooter. The YouTube links in the first post here prove that. If we're comparing airsoft skirmishing to real steel combat then hell no! I have no experience of the latter myself, but I imagine that just like comparing kata to sparring there are a lot more variables involved than just 'practicing the drills' (not least the raw mental ability to keep one's s*** together under pressure). And I'd wager that the majority of airsoft shooters / kata experts are likely to crumble if real live rounds / fists & feet were ever thrown at them in anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E21A Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Uncle Pauly said: So I think we need to define the context here. Are we comparing airsoft target shooting to real steel target shooting? In which case, I think the airsofter's skillset could prove quite useful, sufficient to give them a head start over a total non-shooter. If we're comparing airsoft skirmishing to real steel combat then hell no! I have no experience of the latter myself, but I imagine that just like comparing kata to sparring there are a lot more variables involved than just 'practicing the drills' (not least the raw mental ability to keep one's s*** together under pressure). And I'd wager that the majority of airsoft shooters / kata experts are likely to crumble if real live rounds / fists & feet were ever thrown at them in anger. Hit the nail on the head there I think. As proven by the video, knowing the drills and fundementals well transfers over. Think some people here are forgetting that the question posed was does airsoft help with real steel, not the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Oakmont Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 54 minutes ago, E21A said: Hit the nail on the head there I think. As proven by the video, knowing the drills and fundementals well transfers over. Think some people here are forgetting that the question posed was does airsoft help with real steel, not the other way round. Yes it does, come on musica time to respond and let that peacock fly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted August 14, 2019 Supporters Share Posted August 14, 2019 59 minutes ago, E21A said: @ImTriggerHappy are they all ex para’s? Nah a few were the rest were just spread through different branches and then there was me the token civi/butt of jokes. To be fair never overly discussed much as I have little interest in that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkee Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 6 hours ago, osteoshot said: You sound envious, maybe you need to go on a heresy group black course!!!!!😜 Hardly, I am military so it would be a busmans holiday..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Oakmont Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 53 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said: Hardly, I am military so it would be a busmans holiday..... ACC ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Oakmont Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 hour ago, EvilMonkee said: Hardly, I am military so it would be a busmans holiday..... NAAFI staff? 6 minutes ago, osteoshot said: NAAFI staff? Sorry for those last two, couldn't help it still waiting for for musica to ask me the colour of the boat house at Hereford! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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