British Operator Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 So I own a KJW M4, it's two toned blue right now (Stock and Handguard), I do not have a UKARA and I noticed that if I paint the gun black it's illegal as I bought it as a IF. I'd like to know if I upgraded the gun like I want to (Purchasing a MK18 Handguard) is that okay? The handguard is in black and of course if I replace the current handguard and stock like I want to it'll make the weapon tan/black, is this legal as I'm not actually re-painting the rifle I'm just purchasing upgrades. I understand that due to this it'd be off limits to go say in my back garden with it unless my neighbours knew which most do not as I live in quite an elderly area. I don't mind this responsibility as I can fire inside and make my own indoor range in my second room, I just want to know if this is legal or not, if it's not then I'm afraid I'll either have to paint the handguard myself (God help me) or leave it all together which would suck. Any advice is appreciated, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yukarin Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 @Rogerborg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Before Roger gets in here 😉, I would surmise that changing any parts that make it look real (RIF) still constitutes 'modifying' in the eyes of the law I'm afraid. Same as painting. Can't you go to 3 games to get UKARA registered? You can use your current weapons so don't have to rent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgePlaysAirsoft Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 If you are over 18 and you are modifying it for use at a skirmish you are fine. Done it myself. Cheers. Edit:please ignore bit about 18, see RB's post below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted July 17, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 17, 2019 20 minutes ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said: If you are over 18 and you are modifying it for use at a skirmish you are fine. Done it myself. Cheers. Curiously, there is no minimum age on the defence of modifying for airsoft use. Other than that, yes, it's a defence to modify it into a RIF "for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for [airsoft use at a skirmish site with public liability insurance]". That doesn't mean back-garden plinking. Having UKARA is not necessary, although it would certainly be helpful in the very unlikely event that it became an issue. Remember, it's only likely to be an issue if you're stopped with it in public. In that case, your immediate and bigger issue is simply being in possession of it (Firearms Act 1968 S19). In that case, you need to have your "reasonable excuse" to hand, i.e. that you're on your way to or from a skirmish. If you are, that's also your defence to the act of modifying it. No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 There you go... Still as confusing as ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted July 17, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 17, 2019 Heh, the legal language is... legalish. However, it's actually pretty simple. Don't have any imitation firearm - realistic or otherwise - with you in public unless you're on the way to or from an airsoft skirmish. If you are, then you don't need to worry about whether it's an IF or a RIF, or how it changed from one into other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I meant the legalities of converting an IF to RIF. Not allowed.... ...unless you play airsoft...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgePlaysAirsoft Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rogerborg said: Curiously, there is no minimum age on the defence of modifying for airsoft use. You are absolutely right - I stand corrected. Always learning! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
British Operator Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 So let me get this straight, it is okay to convert it for airsoft skirmish use only? Obviously I would not be taking it in the garden or in public unless in the gun case in a vehicle (not public transport), I think that's basic common sense even for TWO TONED weapons honestly, if you're carrying a fully realistic airsoft rifle in public or any you're asking for trouble from the start. I'm more interested in the legal side of it, and no I can't get a UKARA yet as I'm not 18 yet sadly. The reason I'm asking is because the site near me on their website states that owning a RIF at any age including -18 is completely legal, painting the weapon from two tone to black from what I found out is illegal apparently but if I'm upgrading the rifle for skirmish use is that a valid defence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Moderator Jedi_Master Posted July 17, 2019 Head Moderator Share Posted July 17, 2019 This is a grey area; it is illegal for children (under 18) to buy or be sold an IF or RIF. Although they can be gifted one. You need to be 18+ to get site membership, and UKARA, which is the main defence for buying a RIF. You can temporarily make an IF into a RIF, i.e. camo tape, for a skirmish and then remove it. Personally I would say converting an IF into a RIF, especially if under 18, goes against the sense of the law. What we really need is an actual prosecution to set case law and help codify the legal precedent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
British Operator Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 I'll just keep my rifle two tone for now then until something is completely confirmed. Best to be safe than sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted July 18, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 18, 2019 12 hours ago, British Operator said: The reason I'm asking is because the site near me on their website states that owning a RIF at any age including -18 is completely legal, painting the weapon from two tone to black from what I found out is illegal apparently but if I'm upgrading the rifle for skirmish use is that a valid defence? Yes, yes, and yes. Do at least three skirmishes over at least 8 weeks, and you've shown exactly the same commitment and intent as anyone who's got UKARA. You sound sensible, and that's what really matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
British Operator Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 30 minutes ago, Rogerborg said: Yes, yes, and yes. Do at least three skirmishes over at least 8 weeks, and you've shown exactly the same commitment and intent as anyone who's got UKARA. You sound sensible, and that's what really matters. I wish I could but I'm 16, which is why I asked is it illegal to change my handguard as I'm upgrading it from an M4 to a MK18, the issue is my handguard is blue at the moment due to the two tone and the handguard I'd like to buy is either black or tan. I wanted to know if upgrading the rifle doesn't count to painting it black as a law. I don't understand if it classes as it, apparently from the comments it does so I'll have to wait till I'm 18 to get a UKARA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgePlaysAirsoft Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 UKAPU advises that assuming you meet the criteria for the defence (laymans:you are doing this to skirmish with) age is not a factor. See the FAQ: https://www.ukapu.org.uk/resources/legislation/ I would say: pre book your skirmish online, fit the rail, and of course... be sensible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted July 18, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, British Operator said: I wish I could but I'm 16 Hang on, do you actually play at airsoft sites? Your patch thread talks about "at the field" and travelling to the game. If you're just plinking in your back garden, then you have no defence to modifying an IF into a RIF. If you want to get specific, unambiguous advice, you have to provide full and honest information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aengus Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Just go for it. There’s never been a conviction related to these laws, that I know of, so you’re 99.9% fine. If you get caught in public waving it around they’d be the least of your worries anyway. For legal reasons this is a joke 😇 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_W Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Are you sure? I think someone did a FOI request and got told there had been 18 prosecutions since the act came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 From a quick search I can see two RIF FOIs, and the responses to both are that the information is not held. This does not mean that there have been no convictions nor that there has been no use of the UKARA database, only that the information is not recorded in a reasonably accessible manner Also note that if there was a FOI with the answer being 18 prosecutions, it depends on the question .... the VCRA is far from airsoft or RIF specific - I would expect many more offences to have taken place and been prosecuted, but the scope of the act is extremely wide and related offences across the VCRA can fall into many parts of legislation. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/border_force_import_of_realistic?unfold=1 https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/ukconvictionsrelatedtorealisticimitationfirearms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgePlaysAirsoft Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 3 hours ago, John_W said: Are you sure? I think someone did a FOI request and got told there had been 18 prosecutions since the act came in. That was me back in 2015. I submitted an FOI to the CPS asking for convictions under S36 of the VCRA - there were 18, 1 in 2012-13, 7 in 2013-14 and 10 in 2014-15. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted August 7, 2019 Supporters Share Posted August 7, 2019 Nice, thanks. Just to verify: convictions, or prosecutions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgePlaysAirsoft Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Convictions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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