Tippmann Theft Alert

[Ash @ Tippmann]

Admins please can you pin / relocate as necessary?

Major theft of Tippmann AEGs. See attachment.

Theft.pdf

 

[Jedi_Master]

PDF text:

5th December 2018

 

THEFT ALERT!
On Friday 30th November a major theft of BT M4 AEG Airsoft rifles occurred.
‘Luckily' it was taken from the courier, so no store or property was broken into. But
the fact that there are now a large number of these items out in the criminal world
looking for a home is pretty bad. We have all of the serial numbers and they will be
registered on our warranty database as STOLEN and any information we receive
about these stolen markers will be passed onto the police. These were taken in the
UK en route to the port, so we expect them to stay in the UK, but you never know.
The product in question were all modified for export and so are at much lower limits
than UK sites operate at. If anyone offers you these Airsoft rifles or you see these at
car boot sales then then please notify either GI Sportz or the police, as these are
stolen items and need to be reported about so the police can take action.
The only reason thieves steal is because they have a place to sell what they steal,
don’t give them a reason to go and steal more stuff. Next time it might be your gear
so your help would be greatly appreciated!

If you have any info please contact your local police force or GI Sportz Europe
Police crime number is: Police Station: Ashford, Kent. Crime Number: 46/15281/18

If you have any information call 101 and ask to be put through to Ashford Police.

Thanks for the amazing support from the Airsoft community.
Tippmann Arms UK

Part of the GI Sportz Group
GI Sportz Europe Limited:
HEAD & REGISTERED OFFICE: Adrenalin House, Brooklands Park, Farningham
Road, Crowborough, Sussex, TN6 2JD,
UK. Tel: +44 (0)1892 660 105 Fax: +44 (0)845 456 6582 website: www.gisportz.com
VAT Reg. No: GB 259 5288 58 Registered in England & Wales No: 9678990

[Rogerborg]

Sad times, but I do wish that when companies put out this sort of info that they give as much detail as possible, including exact models, pictures, and serial numbers in this case.

 

The folk stealing and fencing low end gear aren't master criminals, they're not going to be running a counter-intel operation.  Being coy only helps them, not us.

[Seth_Erebor]

On 07/12/2018 at 17:57, Rogerborg said:

Sad times, but I do wish that when companies put out this sort of info that they give as much detail as possible, including exact models, pictures, and serial numbers in this case.

 

The folk stealing and fencing low end gear aren't master criminals, they're not going to be running a counter-intel operation.  Being coy only helps them, not us.

 

I think there should be a register, checked at each site every time you play, etc.

That would stop it really quickly.

[snuff]

4 hours ago, Seth_K said:

 

I think there should be a register, checked at each site every time you play, etc.

That would stop it really quickly.

How long would that add to the safety brief/wait to play?

[Rogerborg]

5 hours ago, Seth_K said:

I think there should be a register, checked at each site every time you play, etc.

 

A register run by whom?

 

And of what?  I don't believe that there's a serial number on any of my cheap RIFs, although the BFGs have numbers.

 

I do approve of you trying it at your events though, and would be interested to hear how that works out.

 

 

5 hours ago, Seth_K said:

That would stop it really quickly.

 

Only if the guns eventually make it to sites, which I'd imagine would happen at least two or three transactions away from the thieves.  The whole lot have probably been traded for a day's fix, then they'll be punted on by the fence or dealer as sweeteners to their under-age runners.  Most of them will languish in wardrobes, wrecked, or be chucked in a canal rather than sold on to anyone who'll have a clue what they really are.

[Tiercel]

17 hours ago, Seth_K said:

 

I think there should be a register, checked at each site every time you play, etc.

That would stop it really quickly.

 

 

Ah yes, shall we add each guns unique serial number to our UKARA licences? 

[Tommikka]

43 minutes ago, Tiercel said:

 

 

Ah yes, shall we add each guns unique serial number to our UKARA licences? 

If it was a licence then perhaps, however it’s not a licence and is just a register of skirmishers with recorded games under one specific scheme 

[snuff]

The only way to lessen the threat of theft is for us to work as a community and make the sales difficult via communication across "our" forums.Adding such to a database will be a hefty workload and would prolly increase any fees incured by us honest players..oh we lose again....

Unfortuantely theft will never be totaly eradicated.

[Aengus]

Think you’re forgetting these will most likely be sold on the street then used for crime and dumped hence why the police will suddenly be interested in a burglary if you mention rifs.

[Seth_Erebor]

18 hours ago, snuff said:

How long would that add to the safety brief/wait to play?

 

Quick barcode scan at Chrono.

 

17 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

A register run by whom?

 

And of what?  I don't believe that there's a serial number on any of my cheap RIFs, although the BFGs have numbers.

 

I do approve of you trying it at your events though, and would be interested to hear how that works out.

 

 

 

Only if the guns eventually make it to sites, which I'd imagine would happen at least two or three transactions away from the thieves.  The whole lot have probably been traded for a day's fix, then they'll be punted on by the fence or dealer as sweeteners to their under-age runners.  Most of them will languish in wardrobes, wrecked, or be chucked in a canal rather than sold on to anyone who'll have a clue what they really are.

 

Not UKARA, I can't say anyone in particular and since I suggested it I should the one to do the work.

Old RIFs, maybe laser etch/engraving and as standard on new ones. If it's scratched out you better have a good reason or it fails at the Chrono stage. (too harsh)

 

Don't cars have this with VIN numbers.

 

5 hours ago, Tiercel said:

 

 

Ah yes, shall we add each guns unique serial number to our UKARA licences? 

 

Sarcasm? I can't quite tell, but perhaps not. So yes.

 

Now I see how some have suggested that it is criminal use, etc then these measures might not work.

Still, worth implementing.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

^ A bit OTT. Not to diminish what has happened but it is quite simply not a big issue at all. Thanks

[snuff]

53 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

Quick barcode scan at Chrono

Barcodes are created and therefore faked so easily..technology,technology...readily available on the net..we've been making them at work for ages and that's just for chocolate..lets stick to the catch and beat 'em up method...😄

[Rogerborg]

15 hours ago, Seth_K said:

Quick barcode scan at Chrono.

 

Errr... what barcode?

 

Even in the unlikely event that you could unequivocally identify a stolen gun - and you'd better be darn sure of it - what would you, as a site owner, do then?

 

Bear in mind that the owner is likely to be a legitimate airsoft player, maybe a regular, possibly one of your mates, who has bought it in good faith two or three sales removed from the thieves.

 

Minimum: tell them that they can't use it at your site... until you can no longer identify it as stolen?  So they file the serial number off and show up again next week.

 

Maximum: call the police in order to have it seized as stolen property?  Which punishes the good-faith buyer, not the thieves.  There's only an outside chance of it making its way back to the original owner, and the police aren't going to auction off a RIF, so they'll most likely just destroy it.  Do you really want to bring that sort of attention to your site?  And is the owner going to wait around for them to show up, if they even bother showing up?

 

When coming up with wizard wheezes, I like to consider the ultimate consequence, and what it's possible and desirable to achieve, and then work backwards to the mechanism.

[Seth_Erebor]

Ok, google Airsoft and go to the news tab. 

Is that what you want to see?

 

Granted it may have flaws, but don't cars have VIN?

Please, someone suggest another plan or amend my own. 

 

Just as with UKARA, we need to police ourselves before the heavy hand of the law does it for us.

I'm well aware that thieves do not care, but we at least need to be seen to be doing our part, however meaningless it may seem.

 

If we use your methodology Rogerborg, may I suggest that we define those three questions:

 

Ultimate consequence: (I'm thinking)

What is possible: (I'm thinking)

What is desirable to achieve: (I'm thinking)

[snuff]

I Googled it all them incidents appear to be in the USA where gun laws differ.

I understand your concerns but I believe you are over complicating it,you will make entry into the hobby/sport more complicated/expensive.

UKARA is our way of moderating use and hopefully deterring idiots from running around the streets,therefore by agreeing to the system we are doing our part..from what I can see it works....atm..

[Seth_Erebor]

21 minutes ago, snuff said:

I Googled it all them incidents appear to be in the USA where gun laws differ.

I understand your concerns but I believe you are over complicating it,you will make entry into the hobby/sport more complicated/expensive.

UKARA is our way of moderating use and hopefully deterring idiots from running around the streets,therefore by agreeing to the system we are doing our part..from what I can see it works....atm..

 

Well, we'll see what the future holds.

[Tiercel]

So who's going to pay to retrofit "VINs" to every single existing Airsoft gun in a non removable and tamper proof way and then set up and maintain a database of all the guns and their registered owners? Because Im not paying for it. As for "having it laser etched on new ones" why would manufacturers do that? We are a tiny pittance of a market for them compared to the likes of the US so why would they bother coming up with this just for the tiny UK market. They wouldn't.

 

And where do you draw the line? Cheap market stall springers going to need registering too? 

 

You're over-engineering a solution to a non-problem.

[Seth_Erebor]

11 minutes ago, Tiercel said:

So who's going to pay to retrofit "VINs" to every single existing Airsoft gun in a non removable and tamper proof way and then set up and maintain a database of all the guns and their registered owners? Because Im not paying for it. As for "having it laser etched on new ones" why would manufacturers do that? We are a tiny pittance of a market for them compared to the likes of the US so why would they bother coming up with this just for the tiny UK market. They wouldn't.

 

And where do you draw the line? Cheap market stall springers going to need registering too? 

 

You're over-engineering a solution to a non-problem.

 

Then don't pay mate. Don't blame me when they clamp down with some draconian measures. If you don't like barcodes then you're really going to hate whatever some government committee comes up with.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

Sorry to say this, but you seem to have invested a lot into what is a scribble on a napkin idea! 

 

Best to be reactive as it leaves us wiggle room. Lets not pre-emptively compromise as it won't stop the home office doing whatever it is you imply they will do. But rest assured no-one will blame you when they do. 

 

Edit: i missed your post above. Quite simply i suggest that we accept that airsoft guns are rarely, if ever stolen to order, we ignore your plan as practically unworkable, we continue building relationships and engaging with stakeholders in government in a coopertative manner, and pick our battles in a reactive sense. If the Home Office demand a registration system - fine. But lets hold our horses. Nothing personal - just disagree with your idea. Cheers,George

[Seth_Erebor]

21 minutes ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

Sorry to say this, but you seem to have invested a lot into what is a scribble on a napkin idea! 

 

Best to be reactive as it leaves us wiggle room. Lets not pre-emptively compromise as it won't stop the home office doing whatever it is you imply they will do. But rest assured no-one will blame you when they do. 

 

Really? What happened to prevention is better than a cure?

 

As I said, post your own suggestions or improve on mine. 

 

I do hope to see some creativity and originality. Feel free to start on a napkin if don't have paper to hand.

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Seth_K said:

Don't blame me when They clamp down with some draconian measures.

 

Which is likely to be in response to RIFs being used in the commission of crimes that attract press attention, not being sold quietly to airsofters and turning up at sites.

 

I'm sure that we all agree that we don't want RIFs being stolen, single or en masse.

 

However, it's important to understand that most property theft is opportunistic.  Geezers will nick anything.  Easy access is more important than the value of the goods.  Airsoft RIFs, particularly AEGs, are already a poor haul for a thief.  They're relatively bulky, prone to attract all the wrong sorts of attention, and there isn't a big market for them compared to consumer electronics, or even tools.

 

However, once Pikey McGeezer has broken into a site or a van, he's going to blag whatever's there, just because it's there.  He's not going to stop and think "Oh, if these happen to have unique serials numbers, then three transactions down the line, some buyer might be slightly inconvenienced.  Nah, best not bother then."

 

No, the whole lot is going in their van, thence to Freddy the Fence or Daryyyl Dealer, who will do them a favour and give them fifty sovs or a couple of bumps for the lot, take it or leave it.  That's if they don't just dump them the canal or a hedgerow once they realise what they've got.

 

I do not believe that punishing a scant handful of good-faith purchasers well removed from the actual thieves will prevent any theft of airsoft RIFs.

[Seth_Erebor]

4 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Which is likely to be in response to RIFs being used in the commission of crimes that attract press attention, not being sold quietly to airsofters and turning up at sites.

 

I'm sure that we all agree that we don't want RIFs being stolen, single or en masse.

 

However, it's important to understand that most property theft is opportunistic.  Geezers will nick anything.  Easy access is more important than the value of the goods.  Airsoft RIFs, particularly AEGs, are already a poor haul for a thief.  They're relatively bulky, prone to attract all the wrong sorts of attention, and there isn't a big market for them compared to consumer electronics, or even tools.

 

However, once Pikey McGeezer has broken into a site or a van, he's going to blag whatever's there, just because it's there.  He's not going to stop and think "Oh, if these happen to have unique serials numbers, then three transactions down the line, some buyer might be slightly inconvenienced.  Nah, best not bother then."

 

No, the whole lot is going in their van, thence to Freddy the Fence or Daryyyl Dealer, who will do them a favour and give them fifty sovs or a couple of bumps for the lot, take it or leave it.  That's if they don't just dump them the canal or a hedgerow once they realise what they've got.

 

I do not believe that punishing a scant handful of good-faith purchasers well removed from the actual thieves will prevent any theft of airsoft RIFs.

 

You are correct and I will adjust my suggestion with some thought over the weekend.

The barcode only works for recovering stolen RIFs once back into "a system".

 

I will be looking at the car sales business to see how people do not drive a stolen car onto a dealer's lot. Or maybe that does happen.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

42 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

 

Really? What happened to prevention is better than a cure?

 

As I said, post your own suggestions or improve on mine. 

 

I do hope to see some creativity and originality. Feel free to start on a napkin if don't have paper to hand.

 

Edit:i just cba. Mods pls delete

[Tiercel]

1 hour ago, Seth_K said:

I will be looking at the car sales business to see how people do not drive a stolen car onto a dealer's lot. Or maybe that does happen.

 

 

They dont, they sell it on Gumtree with a throwaway phone number for £100 with "lost the V5, but its ok m8 just let the DVLA know and theyll send you a new one in a few weeks". Then the new owner gets a tug from the old bill because their car has a ANPR flag for being stolen in 6 months time, leaving the new buyer with no car and no money and possibly charged with handling stolen goods (albeit unlikely due to lack of reasonable knowledge).

 

Not to mention nobody really steals cars anymore because its too difficult. If anything high end cars are either stolen to order and put on the next lorry to Polanssiastan. Or things like Landrover Defenders stolen and broken down for parts because theres more money in that and easier to shift. Or theyre stolen to be used in crime like people nicking vans to ram into shops/steal ATMs. 

 

Nobody is going to be stealing AEGs to order or selling them on for parts because it's simply not profitable. And its highly unlikely anyone is going to nick an airsoft gun to do crime with. Because lets face it, nobody is going to believe some scrote sticking up the post office has actually got their hands on a real high end assault rifle. A pistol maybe, but why bother with the effort of nicking one when you could just buy a 4.5mm  CO2 pistol that looks more realistic from the local dodgey market trader with no questions asked and no risk of being caught stealing.  

 

Nobody is going to pay you to come up with some hairbrained idea to be "the next big thing" in airsoft like enforcing an aftermarket security marking on their guns. You seem to be bouncing between various half-thought out poor ideas in desperation to become airsoft-famous or something. And before you go "well cars have VINs..." yes, thats because its an internationally agreed thing to deal with what was major crime many years ago and the system has stuck because it worked. Its also very hard to replace things like the engine in a car so the engine number matches the one in the VIN plate. But what are you going to do to make that work on airsoft guns when people are modding out bits of their guns all the time? Or when they drop it and the reciever cracks and they buy a new one? "sorry mate you cant use that at our site today because the VIN plate on your  reciever chassis doesnt match your gearbox and you replaced the upper with a custom aftermarket MLOK rail system. Might be stolen".

 

And before you say "well improve on my idea then", no. For two reason. 1. You're not paying me to think for you 2. Its a total non-starter and anyone can see that.