Tactical Dad needing advice

[Countryman]

Strange one chaps. I'm a Firearms Instructor and an Army Cadet Instructor. My 3 kids all started shooting at age 12, two oldest had there Firearms Certificates at age 14. Started my youngest lad at age 11 and he has been a bit more resistant to the discipline involved but has passed probation with my club no problem.

 

He has now (at 12 years old) decided he wants to do Airsoft. OK no problem I am fully supportive of getting him off the PS4 and out into the woods and we have a great looking place near us in Warminster. I'm suppressing some natural reactions to "Walting" about in the woods, breaking the primary safety rules but I can get over that. (No offense meant)

 

Questions.

I own an Airsoft L85 (RIF) which I use for drill practice in detachment, as I have to pass the weapon handling test on this platform every 6 months. I fitted the battery that came with it and it works as an AEG should. Any issues with me using this for our first trip out?

I have a pretty old, gas powered, airsoft pistol, a Maruzen M4506. Predates VCRA by quite a while. Same really, assuming I can find gas and get it going? Legal/sane to use?

We have a CYMA Colt CQB M4 in 2 tone. I doubt that is an issue other than the blue paint is a bit marginal on 40% coverage. Someone did a kind of tiger stripe on it.

 

I think the rest of the kit we would need I have about the place too.

 

The airsoft guns came with standard High Cap mags. Are there site rules on magazine capacity?

 

Weather looks promising for Sunday. I'm actually quite looking forward to the day out with my boy. Thanks for any help you can offer in coming over to the dark side, at least for the odd day trip.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aengus]

17 minutes ago, Countryman said:

~snip~

All sounds good. Make sure to chrono them on the day and you should be set. One bit of advice for you and them is to get stuck in - It's so much more fun running in than it is hiding at the back.

[Countryman]

Thanks for that. I've done a fair bit of reading on this, probably ought to call the site really. Is chrono'ing not a part of signing onto the site normally?

So as a back up plan I'll take some spare cash in case we do need to rent guns.

 

Dude, I'm in the ACF so I'm obviously happy to dress up and play soldiers :-)

 

[Aengus]

Just now, Countryman said:

Thanks for that. I've done a fair bit of reading on this, probably ought to call the site really. Is chrono'ing not a part of signing onto the site normally?

So as a back up plan I'll take some spare cash in case we do need to rent guns.

 

Dude, I'm in the ACF so I'm obviously happy to dress up and play soldiers :-)

 

Chrono once at the start of the day, get tagged, and that's you. For the gas pistol if it was stored with no pressure in it all the o-rings will be dry possibly even cracked but you wont know until you try it.

[Countryman]

I did wonder about the seals on the gas pistol but I haven't had gas for years. Funny if it was a firearm I'd have stripped it and worked that out by now. Are seals fairly universal in size?

 

Researching it looks like Zero One Airsoft are my nearest shop. They seem to have in house technical facilities. Anyone know if I can "prebook an airsoft genius"? Thinking rock up buy gas and get the guns checked over perhaps.

 

The pyro's look like fun. I have black powder and explosive licence with authority to carry. Are there rules on these things in the airsoft world?

[Rogerborg]

Sounds like you're good.  The two tone is neither here nor there, there's no distinction between RIFs and IFs for owners or users, it's only an issue for sellers (/manufacturers / importers / modifiers).

 

It's nice to have a backup, but you're only going to use the pistol in extremis in woodland, so I wouldn't be too fussed about it.

 

Hi-cap mags will be fine for a weekend skirmish.  It's only mil-sims that will generally ask for mid or real caps.

 

Pyro is entirely up to the local site, you'll want to ask them.  However, anything that requires a certificate is unlikely to be allowed.

[Countryman]

Thanks Rogerborg. That's great!

[springs]

1 hour ago, Countryman said:

So as a back up plan I'll take some spare cash in case we do need to rent guns.

 

worth noting that most sites will require you to pre-book any rentals before hand. can't remember ever seeing anyone rock up on the day and get one without booking or get one after a weapon has issues and stops them playing

[Countryman]

Thanks Springs. That's good to know.

 

I made a call to Zero One Airsoft at lunch time and will head down Saturday morning. Hopefully chrono the guns and put anything that needs it in for service. (Think that is on a weeks turn around though )

 

 

[Tommikka]

3 hours ago, Countryman said:

 

The pyro's look like fun. I have black powder and explosive licence with authority to carry. Are there rules on these things in the airsoft world?

Typical pyro in use will be Mk5s and won’t relate to what you’re used to

 

Starting with Mk5 as the standard flashbang, some places will go up to Mk9 but that will be fairly rare.  Others such as thermobarics may be used, and smokes also

In airsoft its also fairly common to have metal grenades containing blank rounds for the sound effect.  These are followed by the user trying to find them again 

 

Players will need to be 18 to buy and use pyro.  The point of using it will depend on game rules, it could just be noise and effects, or they may count as kills within range

 

 

For your own guns call the site first, they won’t have any problem with them but you can let them know that you would intend to use them but allow for you needing to rent gear if there are problems such as leaks or chrono is too high and won’t adjust down

 

 

 

 

[Countryman]

Thanks for the advice. I rang the site and unknown to me they have a shop adjacent, Raven Airsoft!

 

I will pop over tomorrow with all the kit and Dave has offered to chrono the guns to head off any embarrassment. Doubted that there would be a problem renting guns on the fly but better this route. Also has gas to check my old S&W!

 

Will still pop down to Zero One on Saturday and see what shakes (looks like a pretty major stockist) but obviously have to do the UKARA thing to buy anything more interesting. Frankly though it looks like we are in a good place to start with.

 

I've come a long way today chaps. Thanks very much. I'm a lot more confident now and grateful for the warm welcome.

 

Anyone wanting to do a 6 month probationary course at a Home Office Approved club is welcome to come shoot with me :-)

[AshOnSnow]

Haha just get stuck in and have fun.

 

I grew up shooting 9mm pistol from 14 and after I finished school went on to do some instructing myself before I moved back to the UK, and sometimes I do get grumbled at for being pedantic when I call out poor weapon safety on airsoft days, but some habits you just can’t break, there are certainly lots of people who DO actively treat their airsoft guns with attention to safet just as with live firing firearms.

 

There have been plenty of serving and ex forces folks around at a few of the sites I’ve been to - some people take it as all the fun bits of an exercise without getting shouted at, rained on and stuck eating beans for 2 days .

 

(then again, go to a milsim game in February, and you’ll probably get still get rained on for two days, but at least you get to choose some MRE packs!)

 

Doesn’t really become so much “walting” as you say once you see that really, it’s just like playing xbox, except better. (Gamers keep asking for virtual reality first person shooters, it already exists in the real world right here!). Sure, some people come in specific themed kits, but also a lot of the British Army kit people have is purely out of convenience - tough, cheap and plentiful surplus stuff on eBay rather than paying £200 for a new set of helikon or pentagon clothing. An Osprey cover can be had for £25, as opposed to buying a new Flyye Spartan at £400 or god knows how much.

 

Just give it a go  You’re right, much better than sitting in a house clicking buttons all day. Go somewhere like The Ridge and you’ll all be getting a cardio workout!

 

Will have to pick your brains at some point about a shooting club here - seems Bisley is the only place to shoot pistols, and even that’s rare. The local shooting clubs I called when I moved back to the UK were all either clay pidgeon or grumpy old timey not-interested-in-talking-to-anyone-under-50-who-isn’t-their-pal-from-the-social-club types (I think one club organiser had acquired the nickname Daniel Doom from even the people who knew him!)

[Countryman]

Our UK firearms laws are very complicated. Pistols were banned post '96 what we have now are Long Barreled Pistols, that may fall under a carbine description, that are no shorter that 24 " with a wire hanging out the back as a counterbalance.

 

To shoot firearms you need either to be a guest at a formal open day (Bisley do a few a year) or at your local home office approved club or serve 6 months as a probationer learning how to shoot and handle firearms. After that you can become a full member if the club deems you suitable and then you can jump the increasing tighter hoops that the Police want to issue you a certificate. I absolutely know the over 50's type of club you mean. Mine isn't like that though shooters like churchgoers are increasingly getting older.. Try and find clubs with an interest in "Practical" disciplines as these tend to have a younger group interested in moving and shooting.

 

However the bad news on pistols is this: You wont touch one legally that isn't owned by you on your own firearms certificate. The LBP and LBR (revolvers) like high capacity shotguns are prohibited to anyone that is not specifically authorised. Good news is there is no such legal issue with Black Powder pistols and they are accordingly very popular.

[Countryman]

So as an update on my day. Thanks to Raven Airsoft my pistol gassed up and chrono'ed around 320fps. At least the mag we tried holds pressure.

The Cyma M4 was around 340 fps and is shooting a good long way.

The never been shot L85 was around 490 fps and exceeds the site limit. Hop was adjusted and the trajectory is good but its still over limit.

 

I have come home with a "100" spring. I think to get someone to do the job is going to be about £35. I noticed in my reading, on line, that the Army Armaments L85 has a weak set of inner parts. Somewhere on line in Scotland was offering a collect/ rebuild return for about £75 with a more standard set of pistons. (Its a standard product on their drop down so assume its dead common?)

 

Should I mess about with this job or send the rifle for a trip to Scotland and get it upgraded and bought down to limit?

 

To counter that I'm getting on so maybe sneaking about rather than running about and taking long range pot shots is more my thing?

[AshOnSnow]

53 minutes ago, Countryman said:

So as an update on my day. Thanks to Raven Airsoft my pistol gassed up and chrono'ed around 320fps. At least the mag we tried holds pressure.

The Cyma M4 was around 340 fps and is shooting a good long way.

The never been shot L85 was around 490 fps and exceeds the site limit. Hop was adjusted and the trajectory is good but its still over limit.

 

I have come home with a "100" spring. I think to get someone to do the job is going to be about £35. I noticed in my reading, on line, that the Army Armaments L85 has a weak set of inner parts. Somewhere on line in Scotland was offering a collect/ rebuild return for about £75 with a more standard set of pistons. (Its a standard product on their drop down so assume its dead common?)

 

Should I mess about with this job or send the rifle for a trip to Scotland and get it upgraded and bought down to limit?

 

To counter that I'm getting on so maybe sneaking about rather than running about and taking long range pot shots is more my thing?

I don't know about the L85 in particular, but spring changes on AEGs is a lot more fiddly than on snipers - it usually involves disassembling the gearbox to some extent, best left to a tech. That being said, for those who know what they're doing, it's a pretty standard job.

[Prisce]

The L85 is actually very easy to do a spring change. Search on YouTube for the make and model then dissasembly/spring change. It uses (I believe) a V7 box.

 

As you have taken these apart for your job, (think I interpreted that correctly) you have done most of the work. Once you get down to the lower receiver with the gearbox, it’s only 2-3 small bolts to get in and change the spring. Let me see if I can find you a vid.

 

EDIT: 

 

Watch a couple of times, if you have any questions, ask away in the technical section.

[Countryman]

Thanks Pricse. No if it were a real working firearm I’d have torn into it. The AEG will be handled with a hole lot less enthusiasm but that’s a good video.

 

If I screw it up I send it away to get upgraded? Sounds like a plan! I will have a go on Wednesday evening.

 

Thanks for the assist.

 

[AshOnSnow]

1 hour ago, Countryman said:

Thanks Pricse. No if it were a real working firearm I’d have torn into it. The AEG will be handled with a hole lot less enthusiasm but that’s a good video.

 

If I screw it up I send it away to get upgraded? Sounds like a plan! I will have a go on Wednesday evening.

 

Thanks for the assist.

 

 

[LightningCh]

6 hours ago, AshOnSnow said:

 

 

We all know a place like this lol.

[Rogerborg]

That looks like a simple enough procedure on the L85.  It'll have a strong spring in there at the moment, so you may want to open the upper gearbox / piston shell inside a clear plastic bag in case it sproings apart and the spring guide ends up in the darkest, most unlikely corner in the room.

[Countryman]

Update- a day late.

Well its not quite as easy as it was in the video. Its clear to me that rifle in the video had been apart a number of times. Somewhere in that process they lost a small return spring that is attached to the bolt hold open lever.

All told though its nothing like rebuilding the trigger unit in a Ruger and so after maybe an hour of getting everything back just so, I'd changed the spring and it test fired fine.

 

Bit concerned about the M100 spring at the moment as it was longer than the original, by a fair bit, and seemed at least as hard to compress. I guess the Chrono will tell on Sunday and I in any case took the chance and booked 1 rental rifle between I and my lad so that we are covered.

 

Thanks for the encouragement people.

 

Now, on to airsoft grenades. What do you recommend?

[LightningCh]

1 hour ago, Countryman said:

Now on to airsoft grenades. What do you recommend?

 

We talking disposable cardboard ones? If so the Enola Gaye MK5s are perfect for it, nice little pop that people will hear within kill radius. They are usually sold on site as well as literally any airsoft store. And sites will allow them to be over arm thrown. Also dead cheap.

 

For reusable grenades, you are looking at a fair amount of money to be spent. i see a lot of TRMR grenades in the safe zone (i believe these are just noise maker grenades although never actually seen one in use lol) sites also only allow underarm throws though with reusuables.

 

ASG recently made a 360° bb firing grenade (it fires all bbs out of ine single hole which forces the grenade to spin, using green gas as a propellant) which looks good on paper but never seen one used yet so don't know how good it actually is.

 

I personally just use the disposable enola gaye mk5s that my site sells. Don't have to worry about finding the pin or the casing  of a reusable lol.

[Rogerborg]

Yup, that.  Blank firers are fine for popping round corners or through windows in CQB, and insta-kills from an impact grenade can be useful.  Outdoors, there are fewer opportunities to use them.  You'll use (i.e. have fun with) a lot of Mk5s before you spend as much as you would have done on just owning a BFG that you'll rarely get to use in woodland.

 

I say all that, but I have two BFGs.

[Countryman]

Bah! The M100 spring delivers 380-390fps. So today at Zero One I bought an M90. (Gritted teeth) Wonder how long this will go on for!

 

I spent a wad on a haversack load of Pyros though and the boy bought a couple morale pouches. Any concept that this is for my boy would have looked shakey indeed this morning.

 

So “we” now have a reusable impact and timed grenade, a couple of one use B.B. ball types, some Enola Gaye smokes and a bag of those cheap smokes.

:-) It’s just like the night before my ophanage burned! 

[Rogerborg]

Oh, I know.  I reckon I'll need to buy a sniper, another AEP, and an MP5K for my "son" soon.