S.W.A.T. Training Devices Limited - WARNING

[Rogerborg]

I've just ordered a V.T.G. timed grenade from http://blankfiringgrenade.co.uk/
 

Or rather I ordered two, because the first order died during the Worldpay (urgh) payment, and with no way to cancel or retry, I put a 2nd one through. After 48 hours of no response to several emails clarifying what had happened, or any acknowledgement of dispatch, I've just been on the phone to them to be told that grenades are now being made to order and it'll likely be next week before it's put together.

 

There's no indication of this prior to or after the order, and previous reviewers have noted how quickly they've received theirs, so I mention it to make buyers aware of the current situation in case you're in a hurry for yours.  It's a slight dick move given that the black V.T.G. are listed as "out of stock." but the other colours aren't, which is why I went for one that appeared to be in stock.

 

Sad Roger is sad.  No bang-bang this weekend.

 

[UPDATE]

 

I called SWAT back to ask if they had any colours in stock.  Nope.  When would they be making them?  Don't know.  There was some story about their order system being wiped a while back, which is their problem, not mine.

 

OK, then cancel the order.

 

"Oh, you'll need to speak to Paul first, let me get back to..."

 

Well, that's a nope from me.  It's quite simple: no indication that it was made to order, no firm date for availability = cancel, refund, no debate.

 

It's now with my credit card issuer, and I've ordered a TRMR.  I called JD Airsoft first, and they had exact stock numbers for each colour readily to hand, and do free delivery to a UPS pick up point which is much more convenient for me (and the missus won't know).  That's more like it.

 

[UPDATE 2]

 

I now have a dispatch email and tracking number from JD within 20 minutes of ordering.

 

Well, I know who I'd recommend.

 

 

[UPDATE 3]

 

Despite SWAT being unable to answer any emails about the order for 2 days, they were able to produce an immediate response to my final email confirming the cancellation.  It confirms the cancellation but my cancelled order will have "a handling charges levied", a secret charge of of some amount that best pleases them.  Uh huh.  For stock that didn't exist and was mis-advertised.

 

Well, they've created the worst possible result: a failed sale, a chargeback for anything that they attempt to withhold, and a grumpy lost customer and this thread.

 

Oh, my TRMR is due to be arrive by end of day tomorrow, i.e. within 24 hours, and free.

 

 

[UPDATE 4]

 

TRMR received within 18 hours, no problems at all.  Not so hard to achieve.

 

[UPDATE 5]

 

Despite agreeing to cancel the order on 28/09/2017 and issue a refund within 24 hours (less the mystery "handling charge") I have - of course - not received anything by 03/10/2017, so I've had to instruct my CC issuer to pursue it.

 

What I did receive were two emails telling me that my order is now being processed.

 

I'm not sure if they're having a laugh, but if they do by some miracle deliver a BFG at any point, I'll be sure to enjoy my free, unsolicited gift

[Rogerborg]

<loooooool.png>

 

Today I got a "Your order has been dispatched" email.

 

For the order that was cancelled last Friday, acknowledged as such, and which is currently with my CC issuer awaiting a refund.

 

You couldn't make it up.

 

Well, you could, but I don't have to.

 

I rather suspect that I might receive a box full of swarf though, so shall have to film any unboxing.

[proffrink]

Eh, I've had stuff off them and they're legitimate but they are slow as all hell like you say.

[Rogerborg]

Over at A.N. Other forum (currently down), there were two or three posters who popped up and said "Oh, right, yeah, me too."

 

 

I'm sure that it'll be a very nice V.T.G when/if it arrives 2 weeks after ordering from stock, but I've already spent that money on a TRMR which actually exists.

 

Quipping about free stuff aside, now I'll have the hassle of returning the V.T.G, which I expect another wrangle over given the lack of the (required by statute) information about returns in the order confirmation.

 

A little honesty is all I'm after.  This isn't sweetie money we're throwing around here.

[proffrink]

Yep, the main issue I put up with them is that no one makes a better timer grenade than SWAT or Dynatex and can't use impacts very well in woodland. Their website is probably a reflection of their general apathy though - I think they mostly rely on retailers selling their stuff.

[Rogerborg]

They used to sell through retailers but I can't see anyone with stock - not surprising if they're now only making them to order. 

 

Thing is, I do want to support British business, and ideologically prefer dealing direct.  But when they're deliberately not disclosing that delivery is when-and-if they can be bothered, spinning tales about their computer system (another buyer said that they've been playing that sad violin for months), and now ignoring a clear instruction to cancel that they've already explicitly confirmed, I really can't recommend them.

[Rogerborg]

Aaaaaand today I received a V.T.G., 11 days after a confirmed cancellation of the order.

 

Well, let's see what my CC issuer have to say about a chargeback.  I hope it's clear why I'll be hanging onto my free gift - unused for now - rather than send it back and trust that they'll refund (less 25%) once it's in their possession.

 

I can't help but think that their clown shoes must be a trip hazard in the workshop.

[GiantKiwi]

3 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Aaaaaand today I received a V.T.G., 11 days after a confirmed cancellation of the order.

 

Well, let's see what my CC issuer have to say about a chargeback.  I hope it's clear why I'll be hanging onto my free gift - unused for now - rather than send it back and trust that they'll refund (less 25%) once it's in their possession.

 

I can't help but think that their clown shoes must be a trip hazard in the workshop.

 

You need to send it back, speaking from plenty of experience, CC issuer's do not hold kindly to you keeping the product regardless of the circumstances, and won't even consider a chargeback until you've returned it. Also make sure to send it recorded and insured to value, as you will need proof that it has indeed arrived.

[Rogerborg]

Let's see.  If we don't assert our statutory rights, then we might as well not have them.

 

I should be absolutely clear that this order was cancelled, by phone and in writing well before SWAT "processed" it, and I can show that to be the case.  I've already raised the issue with my CC issuer as a failure to issue a refund within 24 hours after cancellation, which SWAT agreed to do in an email.  I know that they actually have 14 days to do so, but I raised it immediately as I had a strong suspicion that they were going to ignore it or mess things up further - which they have.

 

If SWAT want to acknowledge that they sent it in error, but that it's my responsibility to send it back at my cost and risk, that's for them to argue, not me.  If they want to... mis-recollect... about the order being cancelled, I have already provided a copy of their acknowledgement to my CC issuer.  I wonder which way they'll go?

 

Oh, at no point have SWAT provided the mandatory information about returns (in a durable form, i.e. email or written), so I'll be asserting that it defaults to being their problem to arrange postage back.

 

In particular, there is no way that I'll be risking them withholding a "handling charge" for the return of an item that should never have been sent.

 

This all sounds a bit salty, but really I'm having a chuckle about it.  Best of British, eh?

 

The good news is that at this point I've paid for 2 grenades and received 2 grenades, it's just that I'd rather have 1 grenade and lunch money at this point.

[L3wisD]

I baggsy the free grenade if it gets refunded

 

[Rogerborg]

I've already licked it.

[Rogerborg]

... and also used it, somewhat against my better judgement.

 

Well, it works, and I can see the utility in woodland.  Indoors in CQB, a TRMR is superior in design and utility in almost every situation.

 

Oh, one of their resellers said that they gave up stocking them because of quality control issues, so I don't imagine it'll last that long anyway.  The pin is already grumbling about going back in.

[Callum J]

I purchased a VTG grenade from http://blankfiringgrenade.co.uk/ back in April 2019.

The only emails that I have ever received from SWAT Training Devices Limited (Owner Paul) was that the order was received and that my payment had been successful.After waiting several days for my order I contacted Paul using the phone number advertised on their website, I was informed that my grenade would be dispatched in the next 5 working days as there was a delay in manufacturing.

A further 7 working days had passed before I contacted Paul again asking why I had not received my products that I had purchased. He informed me that the machine that makes the grenades was broken and that they are waiting for a new part to fix it. Paul then provided me with a new expected delivery date.After waiting several days after the expected delivery date, I re-contacted again where I was given one of the two above answers, Which was a complete lie.

Throughout the months of April, May & June I rang SWAT Training Devices Limited most weeks asking for an update as they can clearly not be bothered to make any update phone calls about the products. During the above months, most of my phone calls would not be answered, meaning I would leave a voice mail asking for them to call me back.

It was extremely rare if I ever got a phone call back in regards to my voicemail, I never received a call from Paul though, It was always a female who never seemed to know anything, as she always stated that she will have to speak to Paul.

At the end of June, I had enough of waiting for my products and being told complete rubbish from Paul, I decided to cancel my order and request a full refund, which I was told will take 3 weeks (not sure why as standard refund time is 5 working days).

I waited for 3 weeks, still no refund. I therefore contacted again and was greeted with a fairly hostile voice stating that I will receive my refund in 5 days. Much like the product, that was complete rubbish.

Throughout July I made several attempts to contact SWAT, all went to voicemail and I never received a call back in regards to the many voicemails I left.

In August I contacted Citizens Advice who told me to send a formal letter to the company asking for a full refund within 14 days. I posted this using Royal Mail Tracked Postage, so I know it was delivered. After waiting 16 days, I had not received my refund. I contact SWAT several more time through August and always spoke to the female who never seemed to know what was going on/ probably didn't even know what day it was, as Paul was always unavailable.

Yesterday (23/09/19) I made 7 phone calls asking for a call back, Never received a phone call.

Today (24/09/19) I rang SWAT at 08:30hrs and finally contacted Paul who informed me that I need to contact my bank to get my refund. I informed him about several things on his website and the legislation around refunds, to which he replied "I KNOW WHAT'S ON MY OWN WEBSITE, IT SATES LOTS OF THINGS". During the conversation Paul was very hostile and actually swore during the conversation. This resulted in me hanging up on him.

I have now reported him to trading standards as he is still trading even though I had told me during the conversation today that their machine was still broken.SWAT has shown NO attempt to fulfil the delivery and are scamming people out of money.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM SWAT TRAINING DEVICES LIMITED.

EXTREMELY POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE.

[Tackle]

Thanks for sharing your experience, clicked on the link, what a cnut, website reads like everything is fine & dandy, even has a link to cancelling orders etc that reads as if it's no problem.

Fecker needs to be closed down pronto, if he had even an ounce of integrity he'd suspend his website until he's sorted whatever problems are preventing production, as it is it just comes across as if he's happy to keep turning people over.

😡

[enzo47]

i was thinking of ordering two.... time to look else where.  

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Callum J said:

a complete lie

 

QFT.

 

Sorry to hear that.  If you get any interest from Trading Standards, I'd be happy to provide into to them.

 

 

1 hour ago, enzo47 said:

i was thinking of ordering two.... time to look else where.  

 

I'm glad this thread has saved you from an expensive mistake.

 

It's a shame, as they are reasonable nades.  I've subsequently picked up a couple more, 2nd hand but unused.

 

Since they're just rip offs of Dynatex timed grenades in a prettier plastic shell, that's what I'd recommend buying, from retailers with stock.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

18 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

 

 

Since they're just rip offs of Dynatex timed grenades in a prettier plastic shell, that's what I'd recommend buying, from retailers with stock.

Yeah this is what I'm doing going forward - worth noting that when VTGs came onto the scene, Dynatex were out of production - so they were pretty desirable. Now, there's no reason really.

[Philby21]

Hmm, according to his website he's about 20 miles from me - anyone want me to go and knock on his door??? 😈

[hitmanNo2]

The guy doesn't sound like he deals with confrontation well.  Likely to be a wasted journey.

[L3wisD]

40 minutes ago, Philby21 said:

Hmm, according to his website he's about 20 miles from me - anyone want me to go and knock on his door??? 😈

 

Philby rolling up later this week:

 

[bog_god]

Just to add to the warning, I had a very similar experience in 2018. It went something like this:

 

End of May: Ordered a grenade and 6 spare pins, with a game coming up in 3 weeks

Over the next fortnight, sent 3 emails to ask when it would be despatched, called multiple times and never got an answer to either. Final email mid June to say I'd like to cancel the order and get a refund or I'd go through CC. In the meantime ordered a dynatex which turns up in a day, so I had something for the game.

Holiday came up and I forgot about it

End fo August: A mystery package arrives (at the billing rather than delivery address), containing the grenade. I then received an email saying sorry for the delay on the grenade ("supplier issues") and the pins would follow when in stock. Suffice to say the pins have not arrive a year later, but I never even bothered to chase as I know what to expect.

 

So technically they do provide a product, but they are crooks in just about every other measure, such as the timescales they advertise and their approach to refunds.

 

FWIW the dynatex has worked flawlessly, the VTG has gone off in my hand / not gone off at all without a smack on a wall a few times.

 

TLDR: Avoid SWAT like the plague and buy a dynatex.