Policing and Crime Bill 2015-16 - This is now (mostly) the law as part of the Policing and Crime Act 2017

[Yams]

With regards people thinking what was said above about RFD's not being able to sell airsoft guns as air rifles so it doesn't make sense...they believe we're talking shit about them being classed as section 5. No answer has been forthcoming in how they work that one out as I can only draw one conclusion from the firearms acts.

[jcheeseright]

Seems pretty clear to me.... more than 1j makes an airsoft gun a firearm and:

Section 5 (1)

(a) any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger.

Unless they're unaware most airsoft guns are full auto capable?

[Shizbazki]

Hhmmm has anyone actually read the legislation and the bill at length to understand it? as knowledge is power?

 

TL:DR – I think as Airsofters we are well covered, so chill the f**k out! The new Bill proposed for the 14-09-16 might be better for Airsoft really, hint, hint, the bill also proposes a new section to the Firearms Act 1968, S.57A

But read on to learn more of what I mean?

 

So upon seeing the news on several forum sites about the up and coming Policing and Crime Bill due to be talked over in the House of Lords on 14-09-16 its seemed that the sport of airsoft is to be doomed if you take the information from UKAPU, UKARA et al, however as some have pointed out that Lord Shrewsbury is doing this for political reasons, one cannot for one second think that maybe UKAPU might have their own political agendas other than being the saving grace of Airsoft it wants to be seen as.

UKAPU have produced a nice poster where they have a step by step, “What you can do to help”

1. Write an angry letter to a Lord on their “LORDS HIT LIST”;

2. That the GTA will be the only ones to benefit, boycott all GTA members who support the bill and

3. JOIN UKAPU.

Link to the reference above:

http://www.ukapu.org.uk/saveairsoft/

Point 1 with the HIT LIST sounded a bit unprofessional to me and started my scepticism, Point 2 GTA boycott fine I agree with that, you don’t shop at a place that is against your beliefs, but point 3 “JOIN UKAPU” got me thinking, is this more for UKAPUs own political reasons? I noticed that to be a UKAPU Silver or Gold member they want your money (£5 for silver, £10 for gold), Bronze is free for a year but after that you have to upgrade up.

On the poster UKAPU made they mention the Airsoft Trade Body, no internet footprint, all Google searches lead back to UKAPU, UKARA is also on the poster but their website make no mention of the new bill, albeit their website is hardly the best.

 

I have always learned to be quite sceptical and tend to look to the actual paperwork, for those of you that don’t know, Acts and Bills can be written in a very archaic manner that’s basically means you need to break it down to understand it.

So with that I decided to go to the House of Lords website and look up the Policing and Crime Bill proposal as well as refer to the original Firearms Act 1968 specifically S57 (and 57A which doesn’t exist, yet! But if this Bill passes it will)

 

So lets start with the crux of the matter, the Firearms Act 1968, S.57 (1):

In this Act, the expression “firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes—

(a) any prohibited weapon, whether it is such a lethal weapon as aforesaid or not; and

(b ) any component part of such a lethal or prohibited weapon; and

(c ) any accessory to any such weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon; and so much of section 1 of this Act as excludes any description of firearm from the category of firearms to which that section applies shall be construed as also excluding component parts of, and accessories to, firearms of that description.

 

They want to change the wording of Firearms Act 1968, S.57 (1), note that the new additional change is highlighted in bold to this:

In this Act, the expression “firearm” means—

(a) a lethal barrelled weapon (see subsection (1B));

(b ) a prohibited weapon;

(c ) a relevant component part in relation to a lethal barrelled weapon or a prohibited weapon (see subsection (1D));

(d) an accessory to a lethal barrelled weapon or a prohibited weapon where the accessory is designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon.

 

You will notice that at the end of S.57 (1) (a) has the “see subsection (1B))”

Subsection 1B states:

“(1B) In subsection (1)(a), “lethal barrelled weapon” means a barrelled

weapon of any description from which a shot, bullet or other missile,

with kinetic energy of more than one joule at the muzzle of the weapon,

can be discharged.”

 

And this is where we’re getting our knickers in a twist, before it used to state that a “lethal barrelled weapon” means a barrelled weapon of any description from which a shot, bullet or other missile. This could be anything from a shotgun to a pipe launching out a potato etc. Now it has the addition of “with kinetic energy of more than one joule at the muzzle of the weapon, can be discharged.” So adds a specific muzzle velocity too.

So reading it like this means it can be construed that any barrelled weapon which discharges a shot etc with more than 1 joule of energy will be made illegal overnight and that all airsofters up and down the UK should be banged up, so far UKAPU have been correct and have used this to try and gain more members to sign up in apparently the “GOOD FIGHT”.

BUT!!!!

If you were to go to the Firearms Act 1968 and check through the Act as it currently stands, it goes through all its sections numerically occasionally adding the odd “A”, “B”, “C” to certain sections, refer to Section 30 of the Firearms Act 1968 which has Sections 30A, 30B, 30C and 30D.

Section 57 goes straight to Section 58 as expected, however the new Bill proposed for the 14-09-16 has a line stating:

“Subsection (1) is subject to section 57A (exception for airsoft guns).”

 

Basically, the new Bill wants to add a part specifically for us, S.57A which (does not yet exist) is a whole new proposed section to the Firearms Act 1968 which states:

57A Exception for airsoft guns

(1) An “airsoft gun” is not to be regarded as a firearm for the purposes of this Act.

(2) An “airsoft gun” is a barrelled weapon of any description from which only a small plastic missile, with kinetic energy at the muzzle of the weapon that does not exceed the permitted level, can be discharged.

(3) “Small plastic missile” means a missile that—

(a) is made wholly or partly from plastics, and

(b ) does not exceed 6 millimetres in diameter.

(4) The permitted kinetic energy level is—

(a) in the case of a weapon which is designed or adapted so that two or more missiles can be discharged successively without repeated pressure on the trigger, 1.3 joules;

(b ) in any other case, 2.5 joules.”

 

This above means that either UKAPU have only read a small part of the new bill and stopped reading or they want more members, Section 57 is so specific to Airsoft guns NOT being regarded as firearms for this Act is unreal, in fact the way S.57A, Paragraph 4, line b - is written technically means that Full Autos can go up to 1.3J or about 372FPS using .20g BBs, Semi Auto DMRs and Bolt Actions can legally go up to 515FPS on .20g BBs. This is why we should use joules instead of FPS and weights to measure our guns.

 

This means that if this Bill passes, nothing for Airsofters will change, I think the Airsoft community have misinterpreted Air Weapons such as Air Rifles and Pistols with Airsoft Guns. Frankly the Bill has included S.57A to try and bring the Firearms Act 1968 up to date to formally recognise Airsoft Guns under the Act but clarifies that Airsoft Guns are NOT firearms.

For those of you fearing that Police would come to Airsosft Sites and Chrono everyone en masse, I would say don’t woryy, Police have better things to do and would risk alienating Airsoft Players, of which a sizeable portion are Police Officers themselves.

References:

1.

Firearms Act 1968

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/57

Accessed 03-09-16

 

2.

Policing and Crime Bill 2015-16 to 2016-17, HL Bill 55 dated 14-06-16, Las accessed on 03-09-16

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2016-2017/0055/17055.pdf

Specifically referring to Page 137, Part 6 – Firearms, Paragraph 111 Firearms Act 1968: meaning of “firearm” etc

[AndyGif290368]

the proposed bill

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2016-2017/0055/17055.pdf

the proposed amendment

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2016-2017/0055/17055(e).pdf

the amendment is to leave out Section 5 page 128 line 7. this section includes the exemption for airsoft guns, which then places all in the 1j category.....

on another forum there is a post that Lord Shrewsbury has replied to an inquiry stating that he doesn't believe the amendment will be accepted and is doing this to garner more information from the government why we should have an exception.

here is link to a message on facebook with the reply

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210394830576816&set=p.10210394830576816&type=3&theater

[proffrink]

-snip-

Shizbazki you really did spend a whole lot of time writing what we've known for months now. Did you read this thread?

 

The bill itself is fine. UKAPU worked hard to sit down with those writing it and have an exception added for airsoft (i.e what the first 2 pages of this thread are about and what your own post is about). A little while back Shrewsbury decided to propose an amendment to remove the one UKAPU had added as a means of seeing why it was added in the first place. This is called a 'probing amendment' and is not intended to pass (nor really every does).

 

This information was unknown though as Shrewsbury supposedly did not go through the gun lobby.

[typefish]

I've been suggested to post this here:

 

 

I find Shizbazki's post on the contrary. Dangerously on the contrary.

 

We at UKAPU have certainly been looking into this, heck, I personally have spent countless hours looking into the darn thing.

 

Since I'm stuck in bed at the moment, I'll explain why I'm sh*t scared of the Policing and Crime Bill in general.

 

The PCB does appear to protect Airsofters in general, but, it's done in such a naïve manner.

 

I like my airsoft guns to run at about 310fps on 0.25g with the hop set in its sweet spot, which means that with the hop fully off, it will be running nearer to 320-325 fps on 0.25g.

 

The new legal limit is 335fps on 0.25g, which means that my guns might be able, if tweaked about the right manner, to gain 10fps and for it to become a Section 5 firearm.

 

And once it becomes a Section 5 firearm, it will never be an Airsoft gun ever again.

 

I have recently spent money converting a DMR I spent a sh*t load of time and effort getting perfect into a mid-to-high RPS beast - In the 20 minutes of play before I fractured my leg I found out it's super accurate and possibly might have been the best decision I have ever made with regards to an Airsoft gun.

 

If it's quite easy to turn an AEG into a Section 5 firearm, what about a gas rifle, or a HPA rifle?

 

Please forgive me for falling into the pit of car analogies, but, wouldn't you be outraged if your car could never be driven ever again because you went over 74 mph? Oh, and you could also face a prison sentence for continued ownership of a car that has exceeded 74 mph. That's how extreme this bill is.

[proffrink]

So my opinion on the new limits is that they're fine. Not for DMRs, but for your average AEG and bolt action sniper rifle they're fair and leave some leeway.

 

The muzzle energy sits at around 1.3J, which is a fair margin above what most sites allow 1 to 1.14J (depending on their insurer and other stuff). Never seen a site allow more than 1.14J with a fully automatic airsoft gun. 2.5J is also well above the 500ft/s with a .20 that I've never seen exceeded by any UK site for bolt action rifles.

 

The DMR issue is a significant one because getting a DMR to 400 or 450ft/s with a .20 isn't going to happen any more, which is a bit of a shame. However, as most sites have been removing their DMR rules due to trigger responses being just ridiculously good these days (and people abusing it), this is less of an issue than a restriction on BASRs and automatics, I feel.

 

I guess I'm just happy that we have an exception in the first place, which I know if probably not the right opinion to have.

[typefish]

As far as I can recall most airsoft sites are insured to 370fps, no weight of BB defined.

[proffrink]

It'll certainly be interesting how the insurers take this. I imagine they'll just assign a muzzle energy to it rather than a velocity? Amazes me that they don't already.

[jcheeseright]

DMRs won't be affected so long as they're locked to semi auto surely?

 

The exemption gives up to 2.5j for weapons not capable of discharging more than one projectile per trigger pull; e.g. Semi automatic.

[proffrink]

I think because of that 'adaptable' clause they might be. I suppose it depends on how the insurers choose to interpret that.

[Yams]

Was the dmr semi auto as it came out of the factory? If its a gun that was originally full auto no matter what you do to it, it stays in the eyes of the law full auto.

[proffrink]

Yep, that's the worry. There're a very significant portion of people who own DMRs that're converted from full auto.

 

What I mean to say is - is an insurance company willing to take that risk when a site has almost no way of telling the two apart short of fully dismantling them?

[Sacarathe]

https://www.facebook.com/UKAPU/posts/1013182842128019

 

 

We have some great news for UK airsoft this morning. Lord Shrewsbury of the GTA has voluntarily decided to withdraw his amendment in regards to the airsoft exception from the Policing and Crime Bill 2015/16. This is the best possible outcome for UK airsoft.

[AshOnSnow]

As you all probably know, efforts to update police powers (amongst other things) are made almost yearly. This year we're seeing a bill introduced that specifically mentions 'airsoft' (rather than in the VCRA where airsoft guns fall under the category of 'RIFs', and are not really mentioned as being their own category).

 

Here's a link to the bill

 

Here's a link to the page on Parliament.uk - It's just completed its first reading in the house of commons on the 10th and allegedly had its second reading yesterday according to the minutes. Nothing on the website though.

 

And here's what you're interested in

 

Commentary

Everything said during readings must be written down, and you can view those comments here. As this bill was effectively just announced, there are no minutes regarding opinions or anything but maybe you'd like to read the paragraph on it anyway.

 

See the debate minutes here: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm160210/debtext/160210-0001.htm#160210109000009

 

 

Key points

• Airsoft guns will not be included in any of the actual firearms legislation made throughout this bill
• Airsoft guns can only fire plastic BBs
• Airsoft BBs must be plastic and must not exceed 6mm in diameter
• Automatic airsoft guns have a new energy limit of ~370ft/s with a .2g BB
• Semi or bolt action/everything else have a new energy limit of ~515ft/s with a .2g BB

Extra point: VCRA stays completely unchanged as far as RIFs are concerned. No change to the sale of imitation firearms.

 

My thoughts on the above

• Great - no more grey area and a distinction between airsoft as a hobby and recreational shooting with actual firearms is a good thing as far as I'm concerned
• This bit makes me worry as it says '...which only a small plastic missile [...] can be discharged' - right now there's nothing to stop anyone from putting aluminium or steel BBs in their GBBR and turning the NPAS off, turning it into something that resembles a firearm if powered by HPA. The bit that worries me though is how it says 'only' - to me this implies guns must only be able to shoot plastic, and this to me is poorly worded and unenforceable. Right now every airsoft gun can fire steel BBs if you wanted it to. The good news is that this puts more distance between airsoft and pellet/air guns
• Why they chose 6mm I'm not sure. 8mm BB guns do exists, and how this will affect MOSCARTS that fire larger calibre projectiles is unknown - if they by default fall under the other parts of this bill because they're not classified as 'airsoft' then that's not really a good thing
• 370ft/s with a .2g is actually very good for us, and allows sites more leeway in most cases
• Having a limit of 515ft/s with a .2g on everything else is also a good call - I know of no sites that allow higher than 500 anyway

All-in-all: A little muddy but actually better than I was expecting.

 

Would definitely like to have seen a "except for lead pellets" rather than "only plastic" on the whole BB thing. Because at the moment, I think that would criminalise bio BBs.

[Sacarathe]

 

Would definitely like to have seen a "except for lead pellets" rather than "only plastic" on the whole BB thing. Because at the moment, I think that would criminalise bio BBs.

 

It doesn't currently matter because the thing being described in the legislation does not currently exist anyway.

 

Plenty of things besides lead would be dangerous.

 

What is more appropriate would be a statement along the lines of "must be spherical with no diameter exceeding 6.2mm constructed of a material which does not exceed X g/cm³ and total projectile weight does not exceed 0.55 gram"

 

Of course density is not a be all and end all of projectile ballistic impact properties. They could add requirements such as "must not fracture at below X applied pressure" and "must fracture when X applied pressure is exceeded".

[jcheeseright]

Bio BBs are made of a plastic resin.just because it doesn't fit into the traditional 'plastics' category doesn't mean it's not a plastic.

[proffrink]

Heavy weight BBs are more of I problem I guess as many use metal powder to get to the right weight.

 

Another unenforceable law though that's meant more for prosecution.

 

Interesting to see what insurance companies might make of it though.

[AshOnSnow]

Bio BBs are made of a plastic resin.just because it doesn't fit into the traditional 'plastics' category doesn't mean it's not a plastic.

 

Until you get an ignorant judge who's just having a bad day and wants to make a point.

[AndyGif290368]

and that's when the highly paid lawyer steps in and proves with aid of several dictionaries that "plastic" is any material that can be deformed. could be clay, could be lead, could be a synthetic polymer.

[BrightCandle]

I am a little concerned with the power limits that have been chosen. As you go around the world we have airsofters regularly using 400 fps as their automatic limit and a lot of rifles you would buy from the USA are fitted with 400 fps springs normally. I suspect there are plenty of sites here in the UK that could benefit from a 400 fps (The sandpit springs to mind since a lot of that is long range and very outside) and MEDs and I feel that 370 fps isn't based on the damage testing done as to what power strike breaks the skin (so the actual "lethality") nor is based on what is reasonable for the market as a whole.

 

We sold that limit too easily and it restricts the sort of sites that can exist.

[Sacarathe]

I am a little concerned with the power limits that have been chosen. As you go around the world we have airsofters regularly using 400 fps as their automatic limit and a lot of rifles you would buy from the USA are fitted with 400 fps springs normally. I suspect there are plenty of sites here in the UK that could benefit from a 400 fps (The sandpit springs to mind since a lot of that is long range and very outside) and MEDs and I feel that 370 fps isn't based on the damage testing done as to what power strike breaks the skin (so the actual "lethality") nor is based on what is reasonable for the market as a whole.

 

We sold that limit too easily and it restricts the sort of sites that can exist.

 

Not really, how useful is automatic anyway? Of course it depends whether those limits will be applied as "capable of auto" or "when fired in auto".

[Samurai]

I am a little concerned with the power limits that have been chosen.

I've played for 6-7 years in a country where the limits are 400fps for auto, 500 for DMR 20m MED, 600 for boltie 20m MED. The mentality over there is to get as close to the limit as possible maybe somewhat over and then whine or cheat at the chrono to let you pass.

 

There is no difference in the gameplay. That +50 fps doesn't matter, because your opponent has that +50fps too. People still start shooting at eachother at the edge of their max range. That distance might be 5-10 steps further, but the gameplay is the same. Same tactics, same hit or miss rate, same feeling.

[Jason8]

I'm slightly perplexed that nothing has been made of this news from UKAPU here at the forums.

https://www.facebook.com/UKAPU/posts/1101776923268610

Unless of course I'm in the wrong place..

 

The UKAPU and UKARA have made some great strides with supporting our sport and all credit is due.

I just with they would make more use of other channels for getting the information out rather than assuming the world and his wife are on Facebook, which they are not!

Anyway, it seems that (if things go ahead as stated) if you own a GBBR or HPA that is 'capable' of firing over 1.3J on full auto (most of them) that you could now be faced with a section 5 offence.

Maximum Joule rating for single shot/semi auto 2.5J !?

 

I hope there's going to be scope for some form of official 'derestriction/modification' to allow your GBBR to be licensed for use rather than having it destroyed. Or maybe it will affect import and sale only, not ownership..

I hope they manage to sort the gas and air issue out, I don't want to be limited to AEG.

Any thoughts?

[MrMcG]

They are still working on that point I believe regarding the gas issue

 

I think the right parties and making the right noises about it, if it means sticking npas in all rifles or some other jiggery pokery then so be it.

 

I'll await the ruling and sort out what needs to be done as all my guns are gas