TM HK 416D

[Jedi_Master]

 

Utter balls, TM have licenses for the production of traded guns for the Japanese domestic market. They do not export, any TM gun you can buy outside of japan has gone through a wholesaler first.

 

If TM are licenced to carry HK trademark for the Japanese market that does not necessarily mean elsewhere. So even if TM as a company do not directly export their guns, they are still purchased by a wholesaler which exports them to other countries where a particular trademark may be unlicensed. Hence, if HK want protect their intellectual property and have only given agreement for a particular third party, i.e. Umarex, to use their trademark in the UK then any imported gun from another company is technically in breach of this. No idea on actual legal or Customs position for the UK regarding imports but it could be a reason for these stories.

 

My TM does have the trades but I would not be particularly worried if it did not have them, the gun is still awesome

[Alex34]

Unfortunately HK has no agreement with a wholesaler who purchases AEGs from TM in Japan. It would be extremely difficult, almost impossible for HK to enforce any licence breaches regarding TM AEGs outside of Japan unless TM exports them directly.

[jcheeseright]

exactly, if you can find me a TM gun in the UK that came stock without trades I'll eat my hat.

[Sean]

Is the whole trades thing a good thing to have on the gun or simply irrelevant?

[tinkle60]

The cheap solution is to be aware of your maximum ROF and don't try to go faster than that.

 

I do value accuracy over volume of fire but there situations where you need to put more rounds downrange in a short space of time and I tend to avoid switching to auto.

 

Just Google airsoft MOSFET for alternatives for the spectre.

[Jedi_Master]

Is the whole trades thing a good thing to have on the gun or simply irrelevant?

I think that it is subjective as we all like different things and beauty is in the eye of the beholder to quote a cliche. The trades can add to the realism of the gun which for some people is important to have on their RIF whereas others will not care. My 416 would still be a great gun even without the HK trades and I would still have purchased it. The fact that it has trades just improves the aesthetics but is basically irrelevant.

[Jedi_Master]

From the Fire Support website regarding the new TM HK416C:

 

Marui NEXT-GEN 416C AEG Airsoft Gun.

 

Please be aware that this product no longer contains original manufacturer trade marks. They are removed by our suppliers before import into the EU. It is done very tidyly and does not spoil the appearance of the product.

 

The Marui 416C is an unlicensed variant of the UMAREX 416C. It is not endorsed by H&K or UMAREX in anyway and is likely to be inferior in both quality and performance.

[Sacarathe]

From the Fire Support website regarding the new TM HK416C:

 

Marui NEXT-GEN 416C AEG Airsoft Gun.

 

Please be aware that this product no longer contains original manufacturer trade marks. They are removed by our suppliers before import into the EU. It is done very tidyly and does not spoil the appearance of the product.

 

The Marui 416C is an unlicensed variant of the UMAREX 416C. It is not endorsed by H&K or UMAREX in anyway and is likely to be inferior in both quality and performance.

 

Well, guess it's time to buy it outside the UK, I very much doubt our customs cares about a little copyright infringement on a toy gun.

I doubt anyone cares about the trades, but having a product tampered with, even if it's only cosmetic before receipt is BS.

 

That last paragraph is so laughable.

[proffrink]

Ahaha, Umarex licenced re-brands being better quality than Marui repicas? That'll be the day.

 

I can see why they've done it though when another company has paid for the trade marks. Sure, on a private purchase they won't care but I imagine on bulk orders like the ones Firesupport makes they have to be a little more responsible.

[MrMcG]

Have I missed something here

 

I always thought fire support were very pro marui??

 

And after reading this and checking the devgru etc it all says the umarex stuff is better??

[proffrink]

They are. It's very strange.

[MrMcG]

They are. It's very strange.

Good not just me scratching my head then

 

Wonder if they are swapping favour to the umarex brand...

[proffrink]

That or they let the VFC 416 owner write the blurb

[ImTriggerHappy]

Or maybe VFC have listened to all the issues and improved their product.

Haven't had a recent vfc 416/417 in my hands so I dont know for definite but a lot of manufacturers have been improving their quality recently.

Even Ares have got a bit better. Its only the likes of G&G,G&P and yes even the mighty TM who dont seem to be improving the quality of things.

Times are changing in airsoft because materials are cheap and manufacturing costs overall have dropped and its rise in popularity has increased the user base. More demand means more competition to supply and this means everyone is trying to out do everyone else, except a few who are just resting on their laurels and living off the brand name.

I honestly hope TM have been out done as maybe then they will wake up and realise that they are being overtaken and improve their own stuff.

[Sacarathe]

I honestly hope TM have been out done as maybe then they will wake up and realise that they are being overtaken and improve their own stuff.

 

How's the market dominance/share of TM in Japan?

[ImTriggerHappy]

 

How's the market dominance/share of TM in Japan?

Haven't got scooby but I would guess that its quite high. The japanese are very brand loyal.

All manufacturers should put a bit more effort into build quality and materials.

No Aeg should ever need shimming or aoe correction thats just lazy design and poor manufacture.

[Sacarathe]

Haven't got scooby but I would guess that its quite high. The japanese are very brand loyal.

All manufacturers should put a bit more effort into build quality and materials.

No Aeg should ever need shimming or aoe correction thats just lazy design and poor manufacture.

 

I recall a comment someone made about TM not exporting, and all those that escape the country are exported at the wholesaler level, that is to say that TM may innovate on the pulse of Japan, meaning that loyalty could lead to Japan being years behind the rest of the world, in time.

[Alex34]

VFC are taking marketing advice from Sky now?

 

Looks like another market has opened for you lot handy with a spray gun and stencil... problem solved.

[jcheeseright]

Haven't got scooby but I would guess that its quite high. The japanese are very brand loyal.

All manufacturers should put a bit more effort into build quality and materials.

No Aeg should ever need shimming or aoe correction thats just lazy design and poor manufacture.

 

Not one TM gun I've ever owned has required any corrective maintenance out of the box and I've owned a LOT of them.

[ImTriggerHappy]

 

Not one TM gun I've ever owned has required any corrective maintenance out of the box and I've owned a LOT of them.

Never said a TM does if you read what I said, I said all manufacturers need to improve. TM guns are assembled pretty well not perfect but better than a lot.

The problem with TM is that if you want to get anymore out of them it can be problematic. A lot of the components are poor material quality so if you start going for higher fps or rof you have to change things or they have a habit of failing. Out of the box is fine if all you want is a gun firing 290fps and average trigger response. But a lot of guns are starting to out perform them off the shelf and have better build quality and are still trying to improve. TM are in danger of being left behind and that would be a shame.

[Randymanpipe]

Well iv got two, and both don't like being shot on semi auto too much. They lock up after a while. Iv been told that the spectre fixes this issue but its a bit much to charge £400+ for a gun that has known common fault and then I have to plough more hundreds into it to get it to work consistently.

[MrMcG]

Well iv got two, and both don't like being shot on semi auto too much. They lock up after a while. Iv been told that the spectre fixes this issue but its a bit much to charge £400+ for a gun that has known common fault and then I have to plough more hundreds into it to get it to work consistently.

That's surprising I ran the scar for ages on semi and didn't have an issue but was running a 9.9v life battery.

 

But your right if it locks up and for the price they charge for them to have to add another 100+ part is a bit nutty

[Alex34]

Well iv got two, and both don't like being shot on semi auto too much. They lock up after a while. Iv been told that the spectre fixes this issue but its a bit much to charge £400+ for a gun that has known common fault and then I have to plough more hundreds into it to get it to work consistently.

Which two do you have?

I never had any locking up issues before the spectre and I used them a lot on semi at Bunker 51 which is like a constant fire fight.

[ImTriggerHappy]

Well iv got two, and both don't like being shot on semi auto too much. They lock up after a while. Iv been told that the spectre fixes this issue but its a bit much to charge £400+ for a gun that has known common fault and then I have to plough more hundreds into it to get it to work consistently.

To be fair all AEG'S have this issue to some extent.

You dont need to spend a £100 to stop it a basic ab fet will sort it. The spectre costs so much because there is a lot more to it.

[Jedi_Master]

I am still running my 416D as stock, 290 fps, with 7.4v LiPo battery and Deans, no issues with it but then I do not use full atuo that often or on extended bursts. Naturally I would like more range (the unrealistic dream of an extra 20-30m, same chance as winning the lottery) but the current set-up works well enough and I feel changes could upset the component balance for only gaining a slightly higher fps.