Questions on Radios

[Samurai]

 

 

So the CTCSS will have to be programmed into it as well? Like say I program PMR 446.00625 to memory channel 1, then 446.00625 CTCSS code 1 to memory channel 2, then 446.00625 CTCSS code 2 to memory channel 3, etc etc etc?

 

Then 16 memory channels isn't a lot. From what I remember as a kid, a basic motorola can do all 8 channels with up to 26 CTCSS each or something.

Exactly like that. On the bright side, no one uses ctcss except if you have your own team, then you can agree on a channel/ctcss or 2 in case the other isn't free and you still have 6 channels unused.

[Mr Monkey Nuts]

CTCSS is overrated, unless you are playing in your own big team and want to keep your coms isolated to just you. And if you are in that scenario then it could be beneficial buying a licence for your own frequency.

 

For normal skirmishes most people can't even land on the same simple channels.

KISS principle.

[jeffery7466]

I have three choices - Baofeng H-777, BF-888 or Motorola T60. They are all around the same price on amazon.

 

The H-777 and BF888 allow a 3.5mm 2 pin speaker mic that could take a set of bouncer earpiece. But T60 only allows a 2.5mm 1 pin (apparently), and its hard to find such a speaker mic.

The T60, however allows the selection of a wide range CTCSS on the 8 channels, and has a monitor, whereas the Baofengs only has 16 channels, and requires programming.

 

What do you guys suggest?

[n1ckh]

The bf888 comes with covert earpiece and mobile phone type PTT

 

I've just bought a throat mic set up for my bf888, the PTT clips to your sleeve or collar, the mic has a choice of PTT or VOX

[jcheeseright]

if you're only ever going to use PMR446 then the Motorola is the way to go, chances are you'd never *need* the ability to use other frequencies anyway... if you do ever end up needing a programmable radio in the future buy one when it happens.

[Samurai]

The Motorola is only 0.5W, it's range will only be enough on skirmishes.

[jcheeseright]

true, but how often do you need to contact someone more than 200-300 metres away when playing airsoft? Not very often at all!

[Chock]

The Motorola is only 0.5W, it's range will only be enough on skirmishes.

 

That's all you need. We are not calling in F105s to do napalm airstrikes in the A Shau Valley, we are talking to someone thirty yards away from us whilst running around with pretend guns, we could almost get away with two tin cans and a piece of string.

[Samurai]

Yes, for that it's perfect. Anything more than 2-300 yards in the woods you will need a more powerful one. For example a milsim game.

Well, except that it's only compatible with it's own earpiece.

[jeffery7466]

Actually, whiles on this topic is there much point using radios for CQB (I've seen many people using them in CQB). If so, would the motorola be sufficient? or are radios useless indoors anyway?

[jcheeseright]

radios are as useful indoors as they are outdoors, the range of a radio will be attenuated by objects in the way (like walls) but so long as none of those walls are filled with lead you should be fine in a normal sized building. No one's gonna be able to use PMR446 to communicate through 15 floors or a hundred metres of walls but when will you need to?

[AirsoftTed]

All very interesting and technical stuff guys, many thanks, particularly for the freqs.

What about the British Army issue PRC-344 PRR and its use in airsofting? Are there any legal issues? any practical issues with clashes or freqs etc?

Cheers for any advice or input

As Jcheese said you can only communicate with other PRR's with them. They're Ally as f*ck though and at they price they can be had now I'll be picking one up for my kit. I'll also be running Motorola for PMR446 frequencies.

 

I think the added bonus you can securely communicate with anyone using a PRR is another reason to carry one. I'm not the most knowledgable on radios by a long shot I'm just getting into them, but surely for a Milsim team PRR's make sense for close range secure communication. Usually a long range radio is issued for communication with command elements.

[jeffery7466]

Thanks for all your help and advice, really appreciate it! Loving this community!

 

Motorola is a bit of a turn off, as their radios only have a single 2.5mm hole, and the adaptor is quite expensive (on amazon at least). So I might as well go for the over kill and get the BF-888, unless I come across any better ones... not Binatone though, apparently. Cobras and Midlands do come up a lot, and have good reviews. Anybody has experience with them?

 

Edit: Also, has anyone heard of a booket called "MTW Voice Procedure". Not sure what the MTW stands for, but I remember it from my cadet days. It had pretty good instructions on radio communication.

[Ian_Gere]

Cobras are only slightly better than Binatone, in the same way that Gonorrhea is better than Syphilis.

 

The Motorola 2.5mm TRS jack is a good design so long as whatever accessory you choose uses a right angle plug design, which most of them do. 2 pin designs may at first glance appear to be more robust, but in fact the requirement to get both jacks into their sockets straight is apparently too much for many people because bent internal contacts is a leading cause of failure. One advantage of a 2.5mm socket is that they are also used on some mobile phones, so they are pretty cheap to replace should you prove a bit ham fisted, but this is much more true of 3.5mm single pin designs, since they are also used for many consumer music applications.

 

Bear in mind that although some other companies use the same design connector as Motorola, like Cobra for eg, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are 100% compatible with accessories - you may have to wrap tape around the plug to hold it slightly out to make it work.

 

TDB of PMR446 is the Motorola XTNiD but failing that the Midland G7 has an excellent reputation for intelligibility. Frankly though, the Motorola XTR446 may be an old design, but it remains popular because it is good enough for pretty much any application where the additional range of a licensed frequency is not needed - providing better intelligibility than many, it is simple to use, and very robust. They can also be had refurbished with a warranty pretty cheap.

 

IMO there is a lot of merit to what James said about military replica headsets and PTT's being 99% shite, but some stuff is so simple it is next to bombproof - the Z-Tactical Bowman EVO II for eg and their original U98 PTT replica (the one without the additional finger button). I am far from gentle with my kit and mine have been going strong for over 3 years.

[Chock]

Actually, whiles on this topic is there much point using radios for CQB (I've seen many people using them in CQB). If so, would the motorola be sufficient? or are radios useless indoors anyway?

 

Nah, PMRs are perfectly okay indoors, even cheap ones send and receive just fine through quite a few walls. For example, I have a pair of BellSouth T-388 PMRs, and they're about as cheap as you can get (I paid 13 quid for the pair, brand new, off Fleabay). They too are only a measly 0.5w ERP, but they will quite happily transmit through several floors of a large building and two or three miles when outdoors in reasonably decent line of sight. I bought them so that I could hand one to a fellow player if I ended up on an impromptu scratch team at a skirmish. Feature-wise, those T-388s are surprisingly good considering they cost about the same as a round of drinks, they have loads of channels and memory, CTCSS, monitor, scan, call modes, voice activation, roger-beep, power saving modes so the batteries (four AAA) last ages, you can use a headset with them and a remote PTT, they have a built in LED torch (not great, but it works). Most importantly, the sound quality from them is actually not bad at all, very clear in fact, which is the real big deal with PMRs rather than carloads of features, as you don't want to be having to say: 'Say Again' loads of times when someone is shooting at you. For that kind of money - 7.50 each if you split the cost with a mate - you'd be daft not to get a pair of them if you don't have a radio and don't want to spend a lot.

 

As far as CQB is concerned, PMRs are incredibly useful. Let's say you want to storm a large hangar building from two different entrances simultaneously, and those entrances are on opposite sides of a the hangar. You could agree to commence the assault at a specific time assuming you have synchronised time, but if one fire team cannot get into position, or the situation changes, then you are asking for trouble, with a radio, all you need to send is: 'go in five seconds' and get a response of 'affirm' from the other team and you know it's going to be a perfectly coordinated assault. If the situation does change, then you can report that too. It even helps with mundane stuff too; sometimes in darkened buildings, you can lose team members or get separated when a team member goes to respawn, and rather than stumbling about and shouting out the team member's name in the hopes of finding them, a simple radio call to rendezvous at a location will put your team back together with the minimum of fuss.

[Mr Monkey Nuts]

Its very difficult to advise somebody where and when to use walkie-talkies, its comes down to how you play and who you play with. One day you may be mid game and think "I need a radio yo" then you may not need to use it again for months. others may use it every time, its an entirely personal thing.

I rarely use mine as I usually play fairly small sites, where a small team can communicate effectively without them, however when I played Free Fire Zone in Peterborough, that place is huge and being able to communicate with my own team (or the other team) would have been beneficial.

 

its also worth noting that walkie-talkies don't create good communication, walkie-talkies are simply an extension tool. If you can't effectively communicate with a team in close ranges a walkie-talkie will just exaggerate that mis-communication. It sound obvious and a little patronising (not aimed at anyone personally) but as we have discussed elsewhere there is a lot of bad transitions and its very tedious to those who want to use a radio effectively to enhance the game.

 

[Edit] It is all sounding a bit too serious and "train spotting" so from now I think we should refer to all comms as "walkie-talkies".

[Ian_Gere]

Yeah, intelligibility and good comms discipline are the main problem and answer to it respectively - even the best radio equipment and/or accessories has/have limitations. TBH I had given up taking mine due to frustration with garbled messages, but I've just bought a 2nd hand XTR446 (£14 posted ~ fleabay) to use as a loaner: as Chock says, for times when I want comms with people i've just teamed up with on an ad hoc basis. I'm determined to put stuff I was taught last year by an ex Marine sergeant into practice and just hope that doing so rubs off on whomever I'm communicating with. Part of the problem is that I hate sounding like some kind of walty gamer, but the reasons why the military use the procedures they do are to overcome exactly the same problems we are faced with, so call signs and clarity will be the order of the day, as it were - "bellend one to bumcrack six, over" may take the edge off

 

Can you show us those Bell South handsets, Chock? If they were from a dealer, can you give us a linky too, because yeah, that is a spectacularly good deal.

 

One thing on features: if a handset is equipped with a "Roger Beep" it must also be able to turn it off, because the bloody thing is soooo annoying in general use - it is so loud in comparison to speech, so whatever volume you have your gear set to in order to hear messages clearly, a roger beep will be excessive... and when in typical airsoft use... "Say again?" "...t theyreoverthere! DIDDLY-DING-BEEP" "...at you mean? BING-BONG-BEEP" "Who are you talking to?" "...kinell! DIDDLY-DING-BEEP" "...hind the bush. BING-BONG-BEEP" it becomes justification for homicide... but only marginally more so than not waiting a second before speaking after pressing the PTT to avoid your initial speech being cut off by auto-squelch.

 

Hopefully someone who has done it can help me out here: how do you program a CTCSS code into a Baofeng handset? As I understand it, the Baofeng is only interested in the frequency and the privacy "channel" is nothing to do with that.

[Chock]

Can you show us those Bell South handsets, Chock? If they were from a dealer, can you give us a linky too, because yeah, that is a spectacularly good deal.

 

 

Yup, here you go:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111331756228?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

 

And yes, you can turn off the roger beep on them, although the manual is a bit 'Chinglish' Still, it's not like there's a million buttons on the things, so you hardly really need the manual anyway.

[jeffery7466]

 

Yup, here you go:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111331756228?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

 

And yes, you can turn off the roger beep on them, although the manual is a bit 'Chinglish' Still, it's not like there's a million buttons on the things, so you hardly really need the manual anyway.

 

What headphone jacks do they take?

[jeffery7466]

I am really liking the Midland G9E...

[Ian_Gere]

^^Exactly what I was about to ask

[Ian_Gere]

The G9E is bound to be good, but tbh it's probably over-spec'd for what you need.

[jeffery7466]

The G9E is bound to be good, but tbh it's probably over-spec'd for what you need.

 

When I really like something, even though its way over priced and over spec'd, I can come up with a million justifications to buy it.

 

Damn you brain!

[chrisbirley]

Yeah, intelligibility and good comms discipline are the main problem and answer to it respectively - even the best radio equipment and/or accessories has/have limitations. TBH I had given up taking mine due to frustration with garbled messages, but I've just bought a 2nd hand XTR446 (£14 posted ~ fleabay) to use as a loaner: as Chock says, for times when I want comms with people i've just teamed up with on an ad hoc basis. I'm determined to put stuff I was taught last year by an ex Marine sergeant into practice and just hope that doing so rubs off on whomever I'm communicating with. Part of the problem is that I hate sounding like some kind of walty gamer, but the reasons why the military use the procedures they do are to overcome exactly the same problems we are faced with, so call signs and clarity will be the order of the day, as it were - "bellend one to bumcrack six, over" may take the edge off

 

Can you show us those Bell South handsets, Chock? If they were from a dealer, can you give us a linky too, because yeah, that is a spectacularly good deal.

 

One thing on features: if a handset is equipped with a "Roger Beep" it must also be able to turn it off, because the bloody thing is soooo annoying in general use - it is so loud in comparison to speech, so whatever volume you have your gear set to in order to hear messages clearly, a roger beep will be excessive... and when in typical airsoft use... "Say again?" "...t theyreoverthere! DIDDLY-DING-BEEP" "...at you mean? BING-BONG-BEEP" "Who are you talking to?" "...kinell! DIDDLY-DING-BEEP" "...hind the bush. BING-BONG-BEEP" it becomes justification for homicide... but only marginally more so than not waiting a second before speaking after pressing the PTT to avoid your initial speech being cut off by auto-squelch.

 

Hopefully someone who has done it can help me out here: how do you program a CTCSS code into a Baofeng handset? As I understand it, the Baofeng is only interested in the frequency and the privacy "channel" is nothing to do with that.

 

from my use Ian, i believe that you use the software to program your Baofeng handsets. within the software there is a column for CTC/DCS ENC i believe these are CTSS codes - i tried this with my team's radios, and whilst we were using one channel with the CTSS codes on (say ch11 446.00625, 67.0), i went to the general frequency channel (ch1 446.00625) and i could hear them, but they couldnt hear me. once i moved back to our channel i could be heard.