I really hate the M4 stock

[BrightCandle]

Maybe its just me but I find getting down onto the sights of an M4 awkward. The way the stock comes out the back of the gun so highup in alignment with the rails means that the sights sit very low and I find I have to get my cheek bone onto the stock. This might be great from a point of contact and holding the weapon straight point of view but its a real pain in the backside for airsoft.

 

The issue I have with the high on the face cheek weld is that with a mesh mask on I can't push the gun in far enough to get straight on the sights with my head straight up. What I find is that I have to rotate my head a bit and not be quite straight on to make it work properly. If I push it in too far my mesh mask moves which pushes my eye wear up and well we all know where that leads. I have been heavily customising my mesh mask this last week with a dremel and hot glue gun so it fits perfectly under my goggles rather than sitting below or above, but in the process its meant its less amenable to being moved about by the gun. I have squeezed the shape so its face snug but that isn't snug enough to get on an M4. Its already uncomfortable and leaving a nice mesh shape on my skin, its not reasonable to go tighter.

 

I have thought long and hard about the next gun I intend to buy and while I would like to go with the ranger look I do not want to go anywhere near the M4 again, I really dislike my G&G M4 for this reason, I have tried to accommodate that high stock and it surprises me so many people like the M4 because to me the really high stock is a big issue.

[CaptainSwoop]

What sights have you got and how are they mounted?

[BrightCandle]

So initially I was using the basic Iron sight. Right now I am using a G&P aimpoint 30mm red dot scope. Its on an extended ring and that is also on a riser as well. The scope centre point is about 15mm higher than the co-location point for the iron sights (I can just see the front sight at the bottom of the scope). Makes the gun pretty inaccurate close up because of the amount of distance from scope to barrel and its workable with some head tilt but far from ideal. I wouldn't want to try and raise the scope up any higher I already have issues with zeroing at different ranges as is.

[M_P]

Perhaps out up a picture of you holding it, then we can suggest ways if changing your stance/how you hold it etc to make it more comfy for you. I've always find the m4 just right- it's the usual hight for sights etc so not had issues.

[Longshot]

It's airsoft. Don't use sights.

[Sitting Duck]

yup it can be a bit tricky to get your face into it - depends on mask/goggles you use and the technique

some like to really get up so close to sights others a few inches back

and then others turn the gun on its side etc....

 

It is never as comfortable or easy with protective face gear on but at least with M4 you do have a number of stock options

 

Then again maybe I just got a funny face hence I go for full face mask to stop people laughing at me on the field

[NH Shooter]

I genuinely don't understand why people bother using sights... Rifs only seem poa accurate to about 10m ish before it all goes wrong. And at that range, where shot placement isn't important... You don't need sights...

[Samurai]

I genuinely don't understand why people bother using sights... Rifs only seem poa accurate to about 10m ish before it all goes wrong. And at that range, where shot placement isn't important... You don't need sights...

Then your RIF needs a mechanic.

[NH Shooter]

Then your RIF needs a mechanic.

It really doesn't... A true poa-poi shot can't be made with a rif past 10m ish... After that you get variation... If you were to take irons out to 25 yards ish... You would be hitting dinner plates, not 50p coins... Add cross winds, shooter variation, ammo variation, rifle variation....

[Airsoft-Ed]

What about when you can't see where your shots are going? Like when it's dark or the light isn't good for it, or whatever?

Once you get to know your rifle snap shooting without using sights becomes quite easy, but if you want to be certain you're going to hit your mark, when it really comes down to it and it matters, sights are invaluable.

I always use sights unless I'm caught unaware. If you find them pointless then either your gun is terrible, or you don't know how to sight them in/or set your hop correctly.

A tip for sighting in that I always use, find a big open area and get your hop set flat. I find under hopping ever so slightly is actually better for range because the BB's drop off is more gradual instead of it just dropping out of the air when it runs out of spin.

Set your sights on the point where your shots start to dip. For me it's around the 30/40m mark.

Then you know that so long as you're within that range you shots will be climbing up to the reticle, so aim up as appropriate for super close range, but anything beyond that and you'll have to start aiming high.

Once you get used to the set up it's a piece of piss to get along with.

[NH Shooter]

If the light is low, that doesn't affect the accuracy of the rifle... The sights will still be of by the same amount. Bb rounds don't have a ballistic trajectory and their acutely affected by variation and conditions. Shots sighted for 20 yards will be wildly different if shot at 60.

 

Obviously your shot will go roughly where you aim it... But there no way on earth you can select your target.

 

If I find my sights useless it could be because the sights are simple to sight in, the hop is correctly set, the rifle is fine... But at 50 yards I don't consider a body sized target to require the use of irons.

 

All sights are used to give good shot placement. Bb guns can't do that... Their not precision. As such....

 

And I've distinctly noticed that my shots at 50-70 and below don't suffer from not using sights and irons actually get on the way of seeing the arching flight path. It's just my view... When rifs can shoot inch groups at 60 yards, I'm in! :-)

[Airsoft-Ed]

Well obviously they're not accurate to acute minutes of angle, but I've hit people at up to 50m with a single shot before, using sights. I don't think that could be achieved by anything other than fluke if anyone did it without using sights of some description.

Not every shot will go there, but if you hold on target and keep firing one is eventually going to land where you want it because you can use parts of the sight as reference for the shot path and over time you'll get used to it and see a pattern, so sights help you acquire that hold mark a lot faster than walking the shots on target, and you can also do it without being able to see the shots, if you know the gun well enough.

 

Using the walking shots on target method to work it out also gives your target sufficient time to bog off.

[jeffery7466]

I know how you feel bro...I used to wear this type of mask, and it was impossible to aim.

[NH Shooter]

That's my point... It's volume over accuracy. If you were to take the blade/pin out of any given front sight... It wouldn't remove accuracy. Consistently shouldering the rifle is more than sufficient.

 

To not use a sight at range means you stand a chance of missing your first shot... But do does using them... If you don't use a sight, at say... 60-70?... the round goes roughly where you point it, accurate to a metre... Ish... Radius. You WILL need a follow up shot. But you also will with irons.

 

That gets better at shorter range, but at some point the benefit becomes marginal. At 30m... I'm confident I can get first round hits. Def at 15... And I don't see the need for irons at 30 onwards because my rifle can't out shoot me...

 

It's just a preference... When my sighting system can get defeated by a medium wind or a twig... It's time to find a new system.

 

For me, anyways...

[Longshot]

I shoot like this, because "most of ya don't know what's goin' on around here, but I'm damn well sure some of you do!"

 

[jeffery7466]

I shoot like this, because "most of ya don't know what's goin' on around here, but I'm damn well sure some of you do!"

 

 

 

haha nice!

 

Besides, swag over accuracy works best

[Caliber]

Thought about getting a different stock? Not sure on the price range for M4 compatible stocks, but they can't be that expensive.

[BrightCandle]

Thought about getting a different stock? Not sure on the price range for M4 compatible stocks, but they can't be that expensive.

 

I have looked at other stock options but having not found any that came out lower it is obvious why. The buffer tube on the M4 comes straight out the back and the stocks are just designed to go over that. What I actually would need is a custom buffer tube that went down at an angle and then a custom stock designed for that angle. I don't know if there would be an issue with having an angled buffer tube. On the G&G CM there is a screw that goes through straight from the buffer tube into the upper receiver and gear box to hold it on, and that would not be practical with an angled buffer. But on other M4s using the realistic fitting method I suspect it could work, but I haven't come across any yet. If anyone finds one do let me know.

 

So for now I am considering a couple of different options. One is to get a G36C variant, it has a nice low stock and I could most likely use that without problems with a normal or medium ring on the scope. The SCAR-L is close enough to be an M4 and its sort of used in the military but because of the cheek rest you get a bit of space off from the stock and having tried it a couple of weeks ago its quite a bit easier to get a lower cheek weld on it instead of a high one like the M4 which is easier with the lower face guard. Obviously the AK has a nice low stock as well but I really don't want an AK, it does not go well with multicam and overall western army look I have going.

 

My transparent Combat machine was always meant to be temporary and end up as a back up gun anyway until I UKARAed and worked out what I wanted to get. Ideally I wanted an M4 (SOPMOD or CQB silenced) but that stock is driving me crazy. I have spent hours cutting up that mesh mask to go under the goggles perfectly and no amount of bending can solve the problem, its going to irritate me all evening because where I play its dark and CQB, so sights are kind of important as its hard to see the BBs.

[Caliber]

G36 stocks are a good choice. I can see down my G36C iron sights pretty well when wearing more heavy-duty goggles, so I reccommend a G36C stock of availible. Still uncomfortable when wearing a mask, but it should be low enough for a raised sight like yours to be comfortable.