Need help deciding on some high end guns

[Cynical]

I'm looking to jump into the higher end guns around the £300-£400 mark and I like the look of these two examples

http://www.zerooneairsoft.com/product_info.php?cPath=268_318_403&products_id=6099

http://www.wolfarmouries.co.uk/airsoft/bb/product.asp?page=product&id=GP297

 

I have heard that the G&P is much better externally but has problems with the internals e.g the pistons and gears

 

On the other hand, the G&G is not as good externally but with the Top Tech Gen 3 mosfet and Pneumatic Blowback and pretty decent internals that will last awhile.

What would you recommend for long term?

Thanks for your time,

[Monty]

G&G

[dex]

One question you should ask is whether you want the pneumatic blowback feature? If so go with the g&g. If not; g&p. I own both a g&p m4 and a g&g Gen 3 cqbr. I would say that the g&g has better internals out of the box. Externally I would say they are on par. Both are widely upgradable.

[Cynical]

One question you should ask is whether you want the pneumatic blowback feature? If so go with the g&g. If not; g&p. I own both a g&p m4 and a g&g Gen 3 cqbr. I would say that the g&g has better internals out of the box. Externally I would say they are on par. Both are widely upgradable.

That is possibly the most useful thing I have read all week about these guns haha. Thanks so much, it's exactly what I wanted to hear. Which means I am going to go for the G&G

[Ian_Gere]

There seems to be a question mark over the reliability of these G&G MOSFETs. Dunno. I mean, if you're going to end up putting a different MOSFET in it, maybe it would make sense to just put one in the G&P. Still, I hate M4's so what do I know?

[dex]

My advice is not to run the g&g with an 11.1 lipo. Go with a 7.4 or a 9.9 life (I'd say that for the g&p also tbh). In any case a nanoAB fet is a drop in replacement for the stock one (30 quid, which is what I'll be installing if it does pop).

[Lozart]

There seems to be a question mark over the reliability of these G&G MOSFETs. Dunno. I mean, if you're going to end up putting a different MOSFET in it, maybe it would make sense to just put one in the G&P. Still, I hate M4's so what do I know?

 

 

Seems it's mostly down to running them on 11.1v LiPos. The suggestion is that the higher gauge wiring allows more current to flow than the MOSFET can handle. PAS actually state in the blurb under the Gen 3 guns that you should only use them with 7.4v LiPo batteries and that the better wiring and MOSFET negates the advantages you'd get from an 11.1.

[Ian_Gere]

Well, Loz, yeah better wiring, Deans, and a MOSFET in general does improve trigger response and ROF, but not by as much as PAS are claiming. I used my modified TM GB as a drop in to skirmish Sabine my tac AK this weekend - I haven't got around to sorting the wiring out yet, other than Deans because all my batteries have them, so it's stock including a fuse (the 25A one burned out with a 1300mAh 25-50C 11.1V LiPo so I replaced it with a 30A). The ROF was about 20-21rps, but the trigger response was very quick (which is what I was after).

 

Compare that to Jetta my G36: a 7.4V 30C 5000mAh LiPo with 16:1 gears and 16AWG wiring, Burst Wizard KK MOSFET and Deans which produces a quicker trigger response than an 8.4V NiMh, but a fractionally slower ROF, at about 15rps.

 

 

I can recommend Gate NanoAB MOSFETs. I have 1 in my Skorpion and it has made all the difference to the trigger response even compared to with just a 7.4V LiPo (there isn't room in it for heavier gauge wiring).

[Lozart]

Well, Loz, yeah better wiring, Deans, and a MOSFET in general does improve trigger response and ROF, but not by as much as PAS are claiming. I used my modified TM GB as a drop in to skirmish Sabine my tac AK this weekend - I haven't got around to sorting the wiring out yet, other than Deans because all my batteries have them, so it's stock including a fuse (the 25A one burned out with a 1300mAh 25-50C 11.1V LiPo so I replaced it with a 30A). The ROF was about 20-21rps, but the trigger response was very quick (which is what I was after).

 

Compare that to Jetta my G36: a 7.4V 30C 5000mAh LiPo with 16:1 gears and 16AWG wiring, Burst Wizard KK MOSFET and Deans which produces a quicker trigger response than an 8.4V NiMh, but a fractionally slower ROF, at about 15rps.

 

 

I can recommend Gate NanoAB MOSFETs. I have 1 in my Skorpion and it has made all the difference to the trigger response even compared to with just a 7.4V LiPo (there isn't room in it for heavier gauge wiring).

 

I think the statement PAS have made regarding the G&G mosfet is a bit of arse covering in the light of some failures in guns using 11.1v LiPos.

 

+1 on the NanoAB Mosfet though, I have one in my M4 with a 7.4v LiPo and (when it's working) it's fuggin' great!

[Cynical]

So are you guys suggesting to go with the G&P and just upgrade with this NanoAB Mosfet along with maybe a new piston (as that's my biggest worry with it) and it will be better in the long run than the G&G?

[Lozart]

Personally, I'd get the G&G and use a 7.4v LiPo in it.

 

IF the original MOSFET goes pop then change it for something better (like a Gate Nano).

[Ian_Gere]

Like I said, I hate M4's so I never pay that much attention to them. Both G&P and G&G Top Tech have reputations for good externals. Internals wise I think I probably would put more trust in G&G OOTB than G&P, even with the blowback (which IMO is a problem waiting to happen), if they were my only 2 options and I wasn't prepared to do much if any modification.

 

Having said that, I have a niggling doubt about a gun designed with a MOSFET that burns out with 11.1V LiPo's... how strong are the GB parts for eg, if they are not expected to run very fast? And is all you get for the extra wonga some fatter wire and a dodgy MOSFET? If so, you could save yourself a lot of money by buying an intermediate wombat machine and rewiring it with Maplin 16AWG 2 Core power cable and the Gate Nano or better the NanoAB (if you do plan to use a 9.9V LiFe or 11.1V LiPo).

 

At a guess I'd say CKinnerley is our resident M4 expert though (although by his own admission he knows fuck all about MOSFETs), maybe PM him for an opinion on the quality of externals and GB parts.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Ian_Gere
misspelled Chris' name doh!

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

The G&G mosfets really do not like high discharge lipos as well. Keep it at 20c 25,absolute max. At a recent game one guy's top tech mosfets burned out from use on a 35c 9.9v Life. Should give an idea of the quality we are dealing with here.

 

I'd never use an 11.1v lipo without some internal tuning TBH. With the exception of Lonex,most guns do not come with the angle of piston engagement corrected. With the high rof gained from an 11.1,the piston will not last a very long time. Bear in mind these are also V2 gearboxes which just love to crack from High stress,so sorbothane padding is also necessary. A good mosfet is crucial for a good build too,unfortunately G&Gs pre-installed mosfets seem to suck balls,aside from preserving contacts long term if you sue low discharge batteries. The whole point of a mosfet is to allow you to use high power batteries reliably for a long time and to increase the efficiancy of the guns electrical system.

[lmcvann]

for the top end of that you can get the Umarex VFC HK 416/417 series. Awesome externals and good internals too. I love mine its a beast

[dex]

Like I said, I hate M4's so I never pay that much attention to them. Both G&P and G&G Top Tech have reputations for good externals. Internals wise I think I probably would put more trust in G&G OOTB than G&P, even with the blowback (which IMO is a problem waiting to happen), if they were my only 2 options and I wasn't prepared to do much if any modification.

 

TBH the blowback system is very simple and doesn't have a great deal of scope to go wrong. G&G internals are far better OOTB - even the shim job in mine was good (there is always room to tweak, but for a factory job it was far better than the G&P). The gearbox shell on the G&G is very good also, with radiusing and reinforcement.

 

It is a shame they couldn't fit a better mosfet though.

 

Just for the record with a Lonex M110 spring and everything else stock the difference the ROF you can expect is 14.5rps with a 9.9 life and 17.5rps with a 11.1 lipo.

[Liam Porter]

What changed from G&G Gen2 to G&G Gen3, apart from the addition of the MOSFET?

[dex]

What changed from G&G Gen2 to G&G Gen3, apart from the addition of the MOSFET?

 

That's pretty much it AFAIK. Same gearbox, motor, wiring and 6.03 tbb. You could effectively turn a Gen 2 into a Gen 3 by wiring in an active breaking mosfet (ironically it would be more reliable if you used a decent fet like the NanoAB).

[Liam Porter]

Okay, because of that and comparisons between a Gen2 G&G and a G&P, I would recommend G&P over G&G any day.

[Sam_G]

If your happy spending £400 i'd go that little extra and get a TM Recoil!

 

better than any G&G or G&P.

[M_P]

I'd go for a tm recoil if you can stretch a little if not G&P all the way.

[jcheeseright]

to add to that, no one NEEDS a MOSFET, heavy gauge wiring, or any of that other shit.

 

get a decent battery; personally I'd recommend a 7.4v LiPo with a decent discharge rate (20C+ for a small <1500mAh, 15C+ for a bigger one) and re wire your tamiya connection to deans. Yes you'll get some arcing on your trigger contacts and yes in a couple of years they might fail... but in my experience of people using MOSFETs they're far more likely to fail than the trigger contacts!

 

Don't worry about a stock G&P piston either, they're a premium brand for a reason and the gun will be GOOD out of the box.

[Cynical]

Are these TM recoils mentioned are they really worth the extra money? Can anyone link any please? Money isn't really the issue for me. I just want something that looks like the ones I linked (I like the silencer within the RIS Unit) and will work for as long as possible without having to worry about it~ (apart from some BASIC maintenance)

[jcheeseright]

TM Recoil Shock is absolutely worth it, hands down the best out of the box AEG money can buy.

http://www.blackdragonairsoft.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=20&product_id=54

That's the CQBR, would be a matter of seconds to chuck a silencer on the end of it. The only mod I'd recommend having done is to remove the quick change battery system and have it direct wired, any good retailer will be able to do this for a very small cost.

 

Maintenance wise it's just a case of keeping the barrel clean, you'll likely never need to open the gearbox.

[Cynical]

http://www.airsoftworld.net/tokyo-marui-416d-devgru-custom-recoil-shock-airsoft-rifle-aeg.html

 

Is this more worth it? Considering I'm already spending a lot~ Is this also capable of changing to be able to use different battery's other than their ones they force you to use? Same with the mags?

 

 

Also, with this vs the VFC version. Is there really much difference APART from the recoil~ because £165 for just recoil doesn't seem worth it~

[dex]

Tm recoil are widely regarded as the rolls Royce of AEG. They are laser accurate ootb and have some nice features. However the recoil mags are expensive and you would need to get a conversation done to run standard batteries. If you can afford one, go for it (provided you like the recoil effect of course) search YouTube for reviews etc.